Ice Block Wort Chiller

[joetothemo]

My LHBS recommends freezing a gallon of sanitized water, cutting the plastic shell from it and putting the whole thing in the wort at cold break.

The idea is creating an "ice block wort chiller" and helping to top off at the same time.

Is this advisable? What are potential side effects? Off tastes?

 

[bruin_ale]

that's a perfectly viable thing to do if you don't have a chiller. Sanitize the milk jug or whatever you're going to use and use boiled water. Then freeze it.

 

[rycov]

never done it. but i have heard it as advice before. i have a chiller. but if i didn't, i can't see anything wrong with this. probably pretty fast too, which is good.

 

[mojo_wire]

That sounds like a giant pain in the butt. Sounds like the odds of touching something unsanitized, failing to remove all the plastic, or dropping the whole thing are really high. If your LHBS guy does that with no ill effects, well, I guess it probably works fine.

I use a "rapi-kool" chiller in my wort along with an ice bath -- it's a sort of PET plastic paddle designed for restaurant kitchens to cool soups. You fill with water and freeze (wrapped in plastic wrap), then remove from the freezer, remove the wrap, spray with star-san and dunk into the wort.

 

[Slurm]

I actually use the similar method of freezing a 2 liter bottle full of water. When its time to cool my wort, I pull the bottle out of the freezer, dunk it in the bucket of sanitizer, and then drop it in the wort. It is a risk of infection, but if you are reasonably careful (clean it well before freezing it, don't spill anything on it while its in the freezer, and sanitize it before it goes into the wort) it works well.

 

[Double_D]

I used to do something similar. Water is 8 pounds per gallon. So all you have to do is have an apropriate amount weight. I used to boil 2 gallons so I needed 24 lbs of ice. Just buy the bags from the store.

 

[Steel]

I am only 10 batches in and I have done this for the last 5 batches. I use 4 gladware containers that I sanitize and pour distilled water in to. Once frozen all I have to do is take it out of the freezer 5 minutes before i need them and they slide right out. These are much easier to handle, reusable, and never had milk inside for possible infection. I've never had a problem with this and will continue to do it for sure

 

[ChshreCat]

I've made big ice cubes in tupperware containers with sanitized water before. Worked just fine, but doesn't chill that much faster than just doing a cold water bath in my double sink.

 

[captianoats]

Before I built a wort chiller, I always dropped in a bag of ice. A 7 lb bag of ice (which is 7 pints) would drop it to 80 degrees in just a few minutes. Works great.

 

[rycov]

I've made big ice cubes in tupperware containers with sanitized water before. Worked just fine, but doesn't chill that much faster than just doing a cold water bath in my double sink.

i would do both the ice and the ice water bath if i were using this method

 

[Double_D]

Yep.

 

[scottland]

Obviously assuming we aren't talking about full-batch boils where you can't add more water post boil, yes I think that's a fine idea.

Lots of extract brewers do that here in AZ. It's a much better solution than adding a bag of ice (i cringe when i hear people suggest that). But ya, 1-2 gallons of froze water as your top off water is a super quick way to chill a batch down, and there is very little risk of sanitation problems.

Once you star thinking about going All-grain, you have to think about a wort chiller, just FYI.

 

[joetothemo]

i would do both the ice and the ice water bath if i were using this method

This is what I had in mind. The gallon of ice and an ice bath. Just wanted to make sure that there would not be some off taste development from the ice block.

Thanks all!

 

[rycov]

Obviously assuming we aren't talking about full-batch boils where you can't add more water post boil, yes I think that's a fine idea.

Lots of extract brewers do that here in AZ. It's a much better solution than adding a bag of ice (i cringe when i hear people suggest that). But ya, 1-2 gallons of froze water as your top off water is a super quick way to chill a batch down, and there is very little risk of sanitation problems.

Once you star thinking about going All-grain, you have to think about a wort chiller, just FYI.

whats wrong with adding store bought ice? i would think that if its frozen, then **** cant live in it.

and yes the wort chiller is clutch. i haven't had mine that long, but for the past few batches it has been great. i have not regreted this buy.

 

[rycov]

This is what I had in mind. The gallon of ice and an ice bath. Just wanted to make sure that there would not be some off taste development from the ice block.

Thanks all!

i would think that would cool it off plenty quick. post your results here if you do go this way.

 

[joetothemo]

whats wrong with adding store bought ice? i would think that if its frozen, then **** cant live in it.

and yes the wort chiller is clutch. i haven't had mine that long, but for the past few batches it has been great. i have not regreted this buy.

I think that commercial ice makers (and even the home kind) can be pretty scuzzy with mold and bacteria. Hotels and restaurants are notorious for having really gross ice makers.

Not sure about the professionals and their processes...I'd hope they have better standards.

 

[joetothemo]

Oh man, goggling " is bagged ice safe" provides some entertaining discussion. I'll stick with the boil & freeze technique.

 

[Hockeyhunter99]

i have done all three methods, (bag of ice, ice blocks, and ice bath). i have never had off flavors that i can think of. the bag of ice is quick but can be better used in the icebath. i have had the quickest cold break with an ice bath. i tried the ice blocks and they melted really quickly and i still needed to use an ice bath. when you have made your ice blocks, double that amount. better to have more than not enough

 

[LakewoodBrew]

Unless the water used to create the ice has some funky flavor to it, there won't be any off flavor from adding it. If the ice carries bacteria it could lead to infection but from your described process you should be good. Use whatever water you would use in the boil or top off, sterilize it through boiling then freeze. It'll work as described. Calculate the energy balance to figure out how much ice needed to hit the target temp.

 

[scottland]

whats wrong with adding store bought ice? i would think that if its frozen, then **** cant live in it.

and yes the wort chiller is clutch. i haven't had mine that long, but for the past few batches it has been great. i have not regreted this buy.

If you've seen commercial ice makers, or the way that commercial ice is transported and thrown around, you wouldn't want it in your beer post-boil. I wouldn't worry about it from an infection standpoint, just a gross-ness standpoint

 

[TheBroonery]

If you are "sanitizing" the water by adding sanitizer to it, and then you add it to the beer; you are essentially pouring sanitizer into your beer. Don't do it! I had a friend who accidently did this to a few batches when he was getting started.. he used "sanitizer water" as his top-off water. Ruined everything.

 

[joetothemo]

If you are "sanitizing" the water by adding sanitizer to it, and then you add it to the beer; you are essentially pouring sanitizer into your beer. Don't do it! I had a friend who accidently did this to a few batches when he was getting started.. he used "sanitizer water" as his top-off water. Ruined everything.

Haha, no! The water is sanitized through boiling. Thanks for the chuckle.

 

[Hockeyhunter99]

If you've seen commercial ice makers, or the way that commercial ice is transported and thrown around, you wouldn't want it in your beer post-boil. I wouldn't worry about it from an infection standpoint, just a gross-ness standpoint

have you seen the process of fermentation??? i know the final product is good but talk about gross-ness standpoint!!!:cross:

 

[LakewoodBrew]

have you seen the process of fermentation??? i know the final product is good but talk about gross-ness standpoint!!!:cross:

Stainless really helps when giving tours to the un-initiated "see and that bubling is CO2 being produced by the yeast"

Especially if you want them to try a beer afterward.

 

[rycov]

I think that commercial ice makers (and even the home kind) can be pretty scuzzy with mold and bacteria. Hotels and restaurants are notorious for having really gross ice makers.

Not sure about the professionals and their processes...I'd hope they have better standards.

true. didn't think about that. i used to work in a restaurant and the ice machine would get pretty freakin nasty.

 

[Double_D]

Yeah, that's from liquid water though.. Mold doesn't grow on ice. As for the bags it's easy enough to make sure you don't get a dirty one with holes.

 

[IanC]

I used this idea just the other day with good results. But instead of doing a big 1 gallon/4litre block of ice, I used two 1 litre blocks, in order to increase the surface area and speed cooling. It worked extremely well in combination with my external chiller and I had my wort tempurature down low enough to pitch in under 15 minutes.

One issue about a really big hunk of ice (like from a full 1 gallon carton) that worries me a bit though is that as your wort cools down you might be left with a fairly large hunk of ice that just won't melt...

That aside, so long as you're boiling your water before freezing it and cleaning and sanitizing the ice containers I can't see any real problems with doing it this way

 

[Double_D]

Just remember 1 pint per pound. Then add as many pints as you need. 8 pints to a gallon.

 

[joetothemo]

I never caught this in How to Brew before today and thought I would share:

Ice

People often wonder about adding ice directly to the cooling wort. This idea works well if you remember a couple key points.

* Never use commercial ice. It can harbor dormant bacteria that could spoil your beer.
* Always boil the water before freezing it in an airtight container (like Tupperware). It must be airtight because most freezers also harbor dormant bacteria.
* If the ice will not directly contact the wort, (i.e. you are using a frozen plastic soda bottle or other container in the wort) make sure you sanitize the outside of the bottle first before you put it in the wort.

 

[joetothemo]

I did use this method this weekend but forgot to record the times for my cold break.

It seemed to work OK, not great.

My boil was slightly larger (4 gal as opposed to 3-3.5) than what I am used to, so it took a bit longer than I would have liked. Also, I didn't leave much headspace for the gallon-sized ice block. So that is something I will have to pay more attention to in the future. When I added the ice, I lost a bit of wort over the sides of my 5 gallon kettle and into my ice bath (no biggie).

Also, I went with one only one bag of ice in the bath and found myself wishing I had picked up another.

In the end, I think I will try this method a time or two more until I can get the wife to approve my budget proposal for a wort chiller.

 

[joetothemo]

Did this a second time this weekend on a half batch (2.5 gallon boil for 3 gallon batch assuming .5 gallon boil off) ... and holy CRAP was it effective. Ice bath + gallon ice block got me from boiling to pitching temp in UNDER TEN MINUTES.

I'm sold on this technique for small boils for sure.

 

[ericd]

I freeze a bunch (12?) of 1 liter bottles and do this. Gets you down to room temp in like 10 minutes.

 

[dfc]

I freeze about 1 1/2 gallons in tupperware containers (with lids so nothing falls into the water while it's freezing) and cool my wort in 10 minutes.

Never had an issue.

 

[LakewoodBrew]

I run my wort through a counterflow chiller while recircing it back into the kettle for whirlpool. 10gals of 074 wort to pitching temp in about 12 min.

But ice works too.:fro: