I wish I had this problem, but I'm curious.

[Rev2010]

It would only be on a basis where you hit their radar for something else and they wanted to "throw the book at you" that this would ever come up.

The feds got Hillary's email server this way. They had a warrant to search for production past 200 gallons of homebrew


Rev.

 

[TallDan]

I think the only reason why the 100/200 G limits are there are because they are high enough that they wouldn't often be hit by a normal homebrewer, and give the police something to work off of if they see something out of line.

If the cops get a report of an unlicensed brewery running out of someone's home, they show up to respond to the complaint and find 250 gallons of beer in various stages of production, they now have the grounds to investigate further. If that limit wasn't there, the brewer could claim that it's all legal because it's all for personal use and ask the cops to leave and not come back.

Kind of like when you get pulled over at 2AM because you have a taillight out. The cop really doesn't care about the taillight, he's just fishing to see if there is something else going on.

 

[b-boy]

They'd never know, and they know they'd never know. The law only exists to appease those anachronistic busybodies clinging to the temperance movement. As it happens, they still vote, so this way politicians can claim they're doing something about it without having to actually do anything about it.

I'd say this is probably the biggest reason for the laws being written as they are.

There was probably a staunch opposition, and in order to pass this, some compromises were made between the pro/anti factions.

I'd say the 200 gallon per household limit also gives the Feds a very clear legal definition of a homebrewer vs. a non-homebrewer. You can't really have a law without defining the boundries of the law.

 

[m00ps]

My new neighbor is a retired police officer. Didnt find that out until after I invited him up to my pad for a pint off my kegerator. I guess there's no way to know if I produced more than 100gal in the past year, but in the room he was currently standing there was much more than that between all the kegs, bottles, and fermenters. Didnt even show him my brewers reserve in the laundry room...

I think youd have to get a lot of attention before even the douchiest of cops would start to investigate something like this

 

[kombat]

My new neighbor is a retired police officer. Didnt find that out until after I invited him up to my pad for a pint off my kegerator. I guess there's no way to know if I produced more than 100gal in the past year, but in the room he was currently standing there was much more than that between all the kegs, bottles, and fermenters. Didnt even show him my brewers reserve in the laundry room...

I think youd have to get a lot of attention before even the douchiest of cops would start to investigate something like this

I'd be shocked if even 5% of cops knew about the brewing limits. They're cops, not lawyers. They can't possibly know every law.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

My new neighbor is a retired police officer. Didnt find that out until after I invited him up to my pad for a pint off my kegerator. I guess there's no way to know if I produced more than 100gal in the past year, but in the room he was currently standing there was much more than that between all the kegs, bottles, and fermenters. Didnt even show him my brewers reserve in the laundry room...

I think youd have to get a lot of attention before even the douchiest of cops would start to investigate something like this

Or some busy-body jog-walker neighbors calling in a complaint.

 

[m00ps]

I think itd be the neighbors complaining about how the entire building probably smells like hoppy oatmeal every weekend

 

[GHBWNY]

I'd say the 200 gallon per household limit also gives the Feds a very clear legal definition of a homebrewer vs. a non-homebrewer. You can't really have a law without defining the boundries of the law.

I wonder if "household" means an address, a taxable dwelling, the people in that dwelling, a family, an individual taxpayer, a group of people with a common interest living under the same roof, or what? We own our house plus the house my mother lives in. If I am the owner of two houses with different people living in them, ergo, two households, am I legally allowed to make 400 gal. between the two?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I wonder if "household" means an address, a taxable dwelling, the people in that dwelling, a family, an individual taxpayer, a group of people with a common interest living under the same roof, or what? We own our house plus the house my mother lives in. If I am the owner of two houses with different people living in them, i.e., two households, am I legally allowed to make 400 gal. between the two?

I would expect it means your primary residence. I too own another house, but it is not my place of residence nor is it my household because I do not share meals or living space with them.

 

[Newsman]

I wonder if "household" means an address, a taxable dwelling, the people in that dwelling, a family, an individual taxpayer, a group of people with a common interest living under the same roof, or what? We own our house plus the house my mother lives in. If I am the owner of two houses with different people living in them, ergo, two households, am I legally allowed to make 400 gal. between the two?

I expect it's per occupied dwelling. However, YOU would be limited to 200 Gallons as you only "live" in one of them. Your mother could make 200 gallons for herself.. Theoretically, you could "help" your mother make her own. Probably only get a slap on the wrist if you get caught.

 

[b-boy]

Fear not - they defined this for you:

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/household

 

[NickTheGreat]

All my homebrew was lost in a tragic boating accident . . .

 

[barnaclebob]

You guys are missing the point of the question. Its not whether there is anything to be concerned about, its just for intellectual enjoyment

My guess is that they would use the same rules that apply to determining the amount that a brewery makes and should be taxed on. I don't know if they standardize it by total alcohol volume or anything like that.

 

[ba-brewer]

100*128/12/365 = 2.9 12oz bottles per day per year, slightly less on leap years. Are they looking out for my health, their taxes or the BMC lobby?

If the law allows 200 gallons of wine(10-12%ABV), then it should be OK to brew a larger volume of lower ABV beer as long as someone does not exceed the total permitted alcohol content. Sure it may be harder to enforce or verify but if they are going to get into someone's personal business then who cares, they are already doing more work then they needed to do in the first place.

Personally a couple pints per day seems like a reasonable limit, but I think they needed to take in account friends, extended family, beer competitions, holidays, people with teen age children and tax season.

 

[Paps]

Are they looking out for my health, their taxes or the BMC lobby?

their taxes
their taxes
their taxes
their taxes
BMC lobby is secondary

"taxation is theft"
"free men don't need permission"

 

[PlexVector]

..."free men don't need permission"

Unless they're married...

 

[PlexVector]

You guys are missing the point of the question. Its not whether there is anything to be concerned about, its just for intellectual enjoyment

My guess is that they would use the same rules that apply to determining the amount that a brewery makes and should be taxed on. I don't know if they standardize it by total alcohol volume or anything like that.

But ocifer I only brew for "intellectual enjoyment".

 

[LandoLincoln]

I was reading a thread that asked when beer is beer for the purpose of calculating the legal number of gallons brewed per year. (Thinks like, if I drop a glass carboy right after pitching yeast, at which point it technically is considered beer, does that count towards my 200 gallons?)

Now, I am so far below 200 gallons, that questions like that have no impact on me, but I can't help but wonder if anyone has ever heard of someone actually running into trouble because they went over.

I could see if somebody had a half barrel system they ran every weekend and was buying tons of grain, but otherwise how would the feds prove you make 250 gallons instead of 200? And, would anybody really have time to check up on you, anyway?

No. They really do not care. Unless you're selling it, you can make however much you want. No one is coming to investigate unless your used grain pile gets so large and smelly that the neighbors start to complain.

 

[PlexVector]

No. They really do not care. Unless you're selling it, you can make however much you want. No one is coming to investigate unless your used grain pile gets so large and smelly that the neighbors start to complain.

or their golden retriever dies from the improperly disposed of hops.

 

[Rev2010]

You guys are missing the point of the question. Its not whether there is anything to be concerned about, its just for intellectual enjoyment

Noooo, his questions were exactly:

"Thinks like, if I drop a glass carboy right after pitching yeast, at which point it technically is considered beer, does that count towards my 200 gallons?"

"but otherwise how would the feds prove you make 250 gallons instead of 200? And, would anybody really have time to check up on you, anyway?"

People have answered the questions in exactly the way they matter most - no it doesn't matter. And how is anyone here on HBT supposed to know whether or not a failed/dropped batch is supposed to count towards that limit number?? I don't even think the government would know if they encountered that question Probably wasn't even factored into the law.


Rev.

 

[Psylocide]

Personally a couple pints per day seems like a reasonable limit.

For whom?

A teenaged girl?

 

[ba-brewer]

I would imagine this guy may have exceeding the limit.

http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-21448-basement_brew.html

I seen a follow up to the original story that he did get shut down and they politely let him know 30gals every friday is too much homebrew.

http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-31196-northeast_portland_speakeasy_deans_scene_closed.html

If the authorities did not prosecute him, then you might need a dead dog or two to get their attention.

 

[Lunaras]

OP from the other thread here. Idle curiosity is all that prompted my question. Since I plan on mostly brewing mead and it usually needs to be aged a while, I figured it was worth asking as I didn't think having 300 gallons bulk aging would be a problem, but really didn't know.

Last I checked, the TTB hadn't installed any cameras in my house (kinda pointless since I haven't even started brewing yet), but hey, you never know with all the invasion of privacy issues the US has right now.

I'd like to have that particular problem too, but it'll be a long, loooong time before I would even come close to hitting the limits.

 

[p_p]

Excerpt bullet points from TTB website (in context of BOP);
- Adults may not produce beer for sale or offer their beer for sale.

What about receiving a donation? Go-fund-me kind of thing, in exchange for a bottle and an evaluation sheet titled "spot the offs"?

 

[beernutz]

Federal law actually limits to 100 gallons per adult, maximum 2 adults per household.

AKA a 200 gallons per household limit. In Alabama the pertinent section of the code is:

"The aggregate amount of the beer, mead, cider, and table wine permitted to be produced under this act, with respect to any legal residence, shall not exceed 15 gallons for each quarter of a calendar year. Further, there shall not be in any legal residence at any one time more than an aggregate amount of 15 gallons of beer, mead, cider, and table wine which has been produced under the authority of this act."

15 gallons/quarter/person x 4 = 60 gallons per year of production per person and in my household that's 120 gallons

It is all semantics really since I brewed when the limit was 0 gallons per year.

 

[flars]

I was reading a thread that asked when beer is beer for the purpose of calculating the legal number of gallons brewed per year. (Thinks like, if I drop a glass carboy right after pitching yeast, at which point it technically is considered beer, does that count towards my 200 gallons?)

Now, I am so far below 200 gallons, that questions like that have no impact on me, but I can't help but wonder if anyone has ever heard of someone actually running into trouble because they went over.

I could see if somebody had a half barrel system they ran every weekend and was buying tons of grain, but otherwise how would the feds prove you make 250 gallons instead of 200? And, would anybody really have time to check up on you, anyway?

I think once the yeast is pitched it becomes brewing, certain age restrictions apply at this point, but if you immediately drop the fermentor, ruining the wort and yeast, the beer has not been brewed. It doesn't count.

 

[ba-brewer]

For whom?

A teenaged girl?

That was the setup to the joke. There should be a comma not a period after limit in my quote, read the following lines. OK not the best joke, but telling jokes is not my day job.

 

[kombat]

if you immediately drop the fermentor, ruining the wort and yeast, the beer has not been brewed. It doesn't count.

Incorrect. The moment the yeast contacts the wort/must, it is legally beer/wine.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

AKA a 200 gallons per household limit. In Alabama the pertinent section of the code is:

"The aggregate amount of the beer, mead, cider, and table wine permitted to be produced under this act, with respect to any legal residence, shall not exceed 15 gallons for each quarter of a calendar year. Further, there shall not be in any legal residence at any one time more than an aggregate amount of 15 gallons of beer, mead, cider, and table wine which has been produced under the authority of this act."

15 gallons/quarter/person x 4 = 60 gallons per year of production per person and in my household that's 120 gallons

It is all semantics really since I brewed when the limit was 0 gallons per year.

Oklahoma state laws limit to 200 per household.

However, Federal law is specifically 100 per adult. Thus if you are the only adult it is 100. If you have a adult spouse it is then 200.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

What about receiving a donation? Go-fund-me kind of thing, in exchange for a bottle and an evaluation sheet titled "spot the offs"?

I think taking any monetary funds would be regarded as payment in a court of law. But, I think the line would be blurred if instead ingredients were donated.