I uninvite myself to brew days... Do you?

[bob1852]

The patented Crystal malt is relatively new. The documented origin of Porter was in 1700's. So, it is reasonable to expect that while they may not have been calling it Crystal, or Black Patent, or Brown ... there was knowledge of the effect that roasting malt had on beer flavor.

English mild's are even older than that.


When I brew those, I drink some of them extremely young, room temp, and uncarbed. It's refreshing.


Also, BCJP is likely adding a historical category to their style revisions.


Even as a hop lover, I personally find it EAC-ish to suggest some peasants would prefer a cold SNPA to a warm, un-bubbled mild; given the choice.

 

[dobe12]

Fact is, it's improved. The reason is irrelevant. A 1700's man would think a 2014 woman looked and smelled like an angel.



Social conventions of the time equated a little chubbiness with wealth. However, outright obesity was still considered unattractive, and athletic builds were held in even higher esteem.



Surely you're not serious, are you? Are James Cameron, Steven Spielberg, and Michael Bay drawing millions of people into art galleries for hundred-million-dollar opening weekends of their latest art exhibitions? Are there 57 channels on my TV devoted to the art world? (Is there even one?) There are multiple channels devoted to music and movies, but nothing on traditional painting. And you seriously wrote that it's the "top of the art world?" How many millions of people tuned in to watch the Grammies? The Oscars? The Emmys? Heck, even the Tony awards? Now how many people give 2 sh*ts about an art auction?

"Top of the art world." OK.



I didn't say there were no better options (for example, maybe wine was pretty good back then). I'm simply saying the very best beer from 800 AD would be vastly, vastly inferior in flavour to virtually any beer produced in 2014. But since drinking 2014 beer was not an option in 800 AD, and 800 AD beer was all they ever knew, they developed a palate for the flavour and maybe even thought it was pretty good. But that doesn't mean that - given the chance - they wouldn't have found today's beer far superior.

Boy, you sure do like making assumptions. And the fact that you know what people would and wouldn't PREFER all throughout history form 800AD through the present.... man that's something special

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Even as a hop lover, I personally find it EAC-ish to suggest some peasants would prefer a cold SNPA to a warm, un-bubbled mild; given the choice.

I personally find it EAC'ish to suggest that modern improvements make "our" beer superior to theirs when AB/Inbev is the leading authority on brewing related technological advancements and precision and yet I have yet to see any affirmative poetic prose written about Budweiser Platinum.

 

[dobe12]

Even as a hop lover, I personally find it EAC-ish to suggest some peasants would prefer a cold SNPA to a warm, un-bubbled mild; given the choice.

Excellent point... to the completely derailed portion of this thread. Wait, what was the point of this thread anyway? Oh, who cares? It's keeping me busy on a slow work day

 

[kh54s10]

Was it?

Are you sure about that?

How can we ever really know?

Do you think beer brewed in 1000 AD tasted every bit as good as, say, a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale does?

I agree that they made "beer," but I personally believe that modern beer tastes immeasurably better than whatever warm, murky, sour fusel/phenol/DMS/acetaldehyde bombs blacksmiths drank at the end of a long day of shoeing horses. There was simply nothing better available to them at the time. I think brewing has progressed immensely in the intervening centuries.

It is proven that beer was brewed long before any real knowledge of why things happen.

I agree that modern beer is most likely a lot better. But if it tasted horrible do you think they would have continued?

Another thought, in some cultures they won't eat meat if it hasn't, what we would say, started to rot for a few days.....

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Was it?

Are you sure about that?

How can we ever really know?

Do you think beer brewed in 1000 AD tasted every bit as good as, say, a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale does?

I agree that they made "beer," but I personally believe that modern beer tastes immeasurably better than whatever warm, murky, sour fusel/phenol/DMS/acetaldehyde bombs blacksmiths drank at the end of a long day of shoeing horses. There was simply nothing better available to them at the time. I think brewing has progressed immensely in the intervening centuries.

It is proven that beer was brewed long before any real knowledge of why things happen.

I agree that modern beer is most likely a lot better. But if it tasted horrible do you think they would have continued?

Another thought, in some cultures they won't eat meat if it hasn't, what we would say, started to rot for a few days.....

Albertson's calls that "cold aged" and sells it brown at a premium.

 

[kh54s10]

Albertson's calls that "cold aged" and sells it brown at a premium.

True but cold aged and sitting on a rock covered with flies for a few days is a bit different.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

True but cold aged and sitting on a rock covered with flies for a few days is a bit different.

Absolutely, the latter would be marketed as Organic Aged and only available at Whole Foods.

 

[Flipadelphia]

Sounds like the OP can't just enjoy time with buddies. What they do isn't your problem. Relax and take a chill pill, and all that good stuff. Unless you're just a very opinionated person and can't stand when people don't know how you feel. If so carry on!

 

[bleme]

Nope. I enjoy attending others' brew days. If they do something I wouldn't, I might offer advice. If they don't take it, I just give them a little Edmund Fitzgerald and move on.

I wasn't familiar with this slang so I had to look it up:

Edmund Fitzgerald
Another term for anal sex usually while drunk.

Interesting....

 

[Hopinista]

This thread just went to a scary place

 

[TobyG]

But since they didn't know any better back then because none of these advances in brewing had happened yet, they wouldn't know what they were drinking was subpar compared to our current standards. Hence, I'm sure they enjoyed what they were drinking.

If all you had to choose from was nasty brown water that would literally make you sick and possibly kill you, bud light would taste like the heaven.

How many of those advances are the result of trying to replicate styles that were brewed due to their natural environment 'limitations', though? Brewers back then focused on a local style that was most likely the result of trial and error to find what their natural source ingredients and environment worked best with.

 

[evrose]

Bud Light or dysentery, damn you Bud Light you finally pulled me in.

Not me. I'd still risk dysentery.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

English mild's are even older than that.


When I brew those, I drink some of them extremely young, room temp, and uncarbed. It's refreshing.


Also, BCJP is likely adding a historical category to their style revisions.


Even as a hop lover, I personally find it EAC-ish to suggest some peasants would prefer a cold SNPA to a warm, un-bubbled mild; given the choice.

Too wordy, maybe paint that picture in oil on canvas or just use a CAMRA.

 

[ericbw]

There are records of the use of hops, in beer, since 1079. As an aside, I have had a Heather ale and thought it was fantastic.

The patented Crystal malt is relatively new. The documented origin of Porter was in 1700's. So, it is reasonable to expect that while they may not have been calling it Crystal, or Black Patent, or Brown ... there was knowledge of the effect that roasting malt had on beer flavor.

Right, 1079 is not thousands of years. That's the first recorded mention, but assume it was going on a while before that. Still not thousandS of years.

Roasting and crystal are different, too. So the beers of 1400 were different than 1850, and different than today. People have not been making beer *the same way* for thousands of years.

 

[hunter_le five]

Right, 1079 is not thousands of years....Still not thousandS of years....People have not been making beer *the same way* for thousands of years.

0.935 thousands of years?

 

[bob1852]

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Right, 1079 is not thousands of years. That's the first recorded mention, but assume it was going on a while before that. Still not thousandS of years.

Roasting and crystal are different, too. So the beers of 1400 were different than 1850, and different than today. People have not been making beer *the same way* for thousands of years.

Weiheinstephan traces it's abbey brewery back to the 700's WITH a hop garden.So, okay, not precisely thousands just at least 1.2 of them.

Riiight. They squoze the beer right out of the grain into glass and skipped all those technological steps in between.

 

[dobe12]

Right, 1079 is not thousands of years. That's the first recorded mention, but assume it was going on a while before that. Still not thousandS of years.

Roasting and crystal are different, too. So the beers of 1400 were different than 1850, and different than today. People have not been making beer *the same way* for thousands of years.

Ok everyone... let's make sure we double check all of our facts. The thread police are on the scene.

 

[Flipadelphia]

I wouldn't want to be friends with someone who is such a prude as to know-it-all the entire time he's at my brewday, and then actually un-invite himself because of how bothered he is. Wow. You must be a real treat to hang out with OP.

 

[acidrain]

This thread went from interesting to anal in less than 10 hours. Yikes.

 

[TobyG]

This thread went from interesting to anal in less than 10 hours. Yikes.

Really. These kids today take their good old time. On Usenet, it would have been practically instant.

 

[ericbw]

Ok everyone... let's make sure we double check all of our facts. The thread police are on the scene.

If you're going to say that beer today is the same, or is even made the same, as it was in antiquity, you should check facts. I'm saying that beer has changed in the last 2-300 years with crystal malts, and in the last 1000 or so years with the use of hops. What was acceptable beer at one point is bad at another point.

No, we probably can't know for sure that The old kind of ale was good or bad by our standards. But we can deduce that it was different.

Someone mentioned reading John Palmer. That's only good until the next revision when he might change his mind on something. It changes all the time.

It's ok to check your facts. Or you can just post what pops into your head.

 

[bob1852]

Who changed beer from being fermented barley water and when did this happen?

 

[MindenMan]

What began a discussion of brewing techniques, or the lack thereof is gone. This is a pissing match. What a waste of time an energy, Look, we are all adults here, would it be too much to ask, to just play nice?

 

[DSorenson]

Sounds like the OP can't just enjoy time with buddies. What they do isn't your problem. Relax and take a chill pill, and all that good stuff. Unless you're just a very opinionated person and can't stand when people don't know how you feel. If so carry on!

I wouldn't want to be friends with someone who is such a prude as to know-it-all the entire time he's at my brewday, and then actually un-invite himself because of how bothered he is. Wow. You must be a real treat to hang out with OP.

Man, Flipadelphia must be trolling. Please troll elsewhere.

OP has already admitted his faults.

I'm always polite, but perhaps your right, I'm just being a ********. And I don't think anyone's figured out a way to make a good beer with ********. That's why we use hops.

OP is displeased.

 

[DSorenson]

Low opinions of me that were brought on by my original post aside, I have gained some perspective.

They don't actually want me there for help, just the company. It's more like "hey, we happen to be brewing but come hang out." and not "hey, come help us brew". I guess I misunderstood my purpose.

 

[ericbw]

What began a discussion of brewing techniques, or the lack thereof is gone. This is a pissing match. What a waste of time an energy, Look, we are all adults here, would it be too much to ask, to just play nice?

Yes. It's too much to ask here

 

[donovanmaxwell]

I can understand where the OP is coming from. When I work at something, I am very anal about how I do things and tend to be hard on myself for screwups. I strive for perfection (not that I am always successful in even getting close) When I've done something time and again and have found the "best way" to do something, my instinct is to be helpful. However frustrating it is for that advice to be ignored, so long as my name is not associated with it, I try to follow the RDWHAHB advice that so many others have passed along... Even though I'm cringing inside.

 

[DSorenson]

I can understand where the OP is coming from. When I work at something, I am very anal about how I do things and tend to be hard on myself for screwups. I strive for perfection (not that I am always successful in even getting close) When I've done something time and again and have found the "best way" to do something, my instinct is to be helpful. However frustrating it is for that advice to be ignored, so long as my name is not associated with it, I try to follow the RDWHAHB advice that so many others have passed along... Even though I'm cringing inside.

It's nice to know that people can relate.