I thought I could just bag some grain and hold it for mash

[Bubbles2]

Thanks for looking in, I thought I could just bag some grain and hold it for mash but I am not sure now
I have 6lbs of rye in 2 gallons of water. I brought it to 110 held it for 30 minutes, brought up to 152 and held it for 90 minutes. Not much water left, (like half soaked into the grain) the grain is in a bag and needs to be squeezed and rinsed. I was going to use a gallon of 150ºf h20 to rinse it / sparge it.
Can I save this?

I have a 5 gallon kettle I started with 2 gallons h20 as above and when I get to temp I put the pot in a cooler to hold the temp. Works pretty good cause the lid is on the kettle too

I am looking to get a 2 gallon batch to ferment...

 

[brownni5]

Is your whole grist rye? James at Basic Brewing Radio has tried this and compares its consistency to "snot." Rye is pretty gummy.

With enough sparge water, you'll probably be ok, but who knows?

 

[Bubbles2]

haha, Just about 91oz Rye, 5 oz 2 Row. I got it it to go, I think....LOL What a F'n mess. LOL! So I ended up taking the grain outta the bag cause the bag just was holding water or grist like a plastic bag, just dripping. I used 1 gallon heated to 152º ish and rinsed the grain. All said and done, now boiling for 60 it came back at 1040 @ 90º with the rinse h20. I have it at a boil with some Sugar to bump it to 1080 for the Boil. Had to add acid to get it to 5.3 ph will check after boil and add acid if it did not come down any or drifted up before pitching. Did the Iodine test and that seemed to check out.

Next time Loose grain. First time doing an AG. I followed the Partial mentality on it and did some reading and it seems that you pitch your grain into a lauter bin @ 1.25qt to 1lb at a temp (pends on ambient and grain temp) However we aim for 152ºf for the Mash, strain and carry on.

 

[IslandLizard]

At 1.040 you got a terrible efficiency from those 6 pounds.

There are a few ways to deal with a gummy mash:

1. Use rice hulls. In this case probably 1/2 pound.
2. Perform a combined Protein/Beta Glucanase rest at 131F for 10'. 15 minutes, max or you may start losing head retention. I think I read somewhere that a slightly higher mash pH of 7.0 at that point helps those enzymes. Acidify properly to pH of 5.2-5.4 before raising to your sacch rest at 146-158F.
3. Definitely raise to mashout temps (168F) and hold for 10-15 minutes while stirring. Make sure your mash pH is in the 5.2-5.4 range at that point, not much higher.
4. You need to stir, and a lot. Stirring helps breaks up the gumminess.
5. Sparge with a decent volume of hot water, at least half of your total water volume. Together with good stirring it will become looser the more water is added. Noticeably with your 2nd sparge addition when you batch sparge.

I used 50% Rye in a NEIPA and it was well, very Rye-ish! I really liked it. Very creamy!
I don't think I would ever need to use more rye than that.

 

[brownni5]

Brew In A Bag (BIAB) is a thing, a pretty popular one at that. I don't think the bag was necessarily your problem...

 

[rburrelli]

This may be a stupid question, but was the grain crushed before you soaked it?

 

[acidrain]

My question too...

 

[Bubbles2]

Yes and well. I am going to redoux in a week or so.

 

[augiedoggy]

Is your whole grist rye? James at Basic Brewing Radio has tried this and compares its consistency to "snot." Rye is pretty gummy.

With enough sparge water, you'll probably be ok, but who knows?

just an FYI do not ever try doing this step mash profile with a rims! The rye made a nasty scorched mess and I dump 100 gallons of wort due to this "snot"

We also hold our mash between 158-162 for at least 30 mins for better head retention as we've read it helps.

 

[augiedoggy]

Brew In A Bag (BIAB) is a thing, a pretty popular one at that. I don't think the bag was necessarily your problem...

That true but I dont know how often BIAB step mashes are done and even then, done with this much rye... Ive been brewing on my system at the pub for over a year and never had any sign of scorching either till attempting the step mash with this rye. It really does form quite a snotty buildup that can reek havoc. I guess it depends on what form of rye your using too though.

 

[Bubbles2]

Well the viscosity is still there ( A bit). I took it to 1100 it is down to 1000 with Fermentis 05 but a huge starter, I pitched on top of a good cake the moment I pulled 5 gal of Anchor Steam off it. I know you all are in beer mode and lautering. The adjusted efficiency with heat and calibration put me at 1044, Not sure what I should be aiming for 1070?
Anyhow, I am going to give it another try, but no bag, good stirring and I scored a gorgeous Stainless Collander that will hold about 12lbs of wet grain when straining 9" x 15" So I hope to stir it good, drain it and be able to get a good sparge because of the collander. I think because of the mess and bag of the last try I left a bit of sugar on it. I will report back on it. Pay attention to advice and such. I'm running this through a Pot and not worried about head retention.

 

[Bubbles2]

Get back, the 1st time attenuated down to 1001 after 15 days. FWIW.
I ran this second batch and was able to get a 1052 1st wort. with the 6 lbs to 3.6 gal of water.
My first sparge run off was 1028 using 1 gal at 168ºf. Maybe I did not let it stand long enough albeit I stirred well. Prob about 7 minutes of rest there...
I did not do a second and wondered if I should when the numbers look as they do?
My combined wort pre boil 1045 and a post boil after 60min was 1050.

I did it loose in the pot and stirred well.
Step mash:
110º 30 min
125º 30 min
145-148º 45min
152-154º 45 min
Ran it through my new collander (which worked well) and then a fine mesh strainer.
The Ph was 5.61 pre boil and finished 5.59 post boil.

My return was good or better than my 1st run when I used a bag and would not use a bag again. Not with this Pasta collander and fine mesh strainer (used for wine) I have. Loose allowed me to recoup 2.7 gallons back from the 3.6 I started with and pretty much the whole 1 gallon back of my batch sparge, because ( I do not have a marked kettle), but estimate 4 gallon pre boil. Won't know till I pitch on the yeast cake I am getting ready to pull the 1st batch off of.