I think I live in a meth lab. Seriously.

[thejerk]

I just ordered the test kit. Does anybody have any experience with this? If it is contaminated, I've heard they'll basically evict me and confiscate clothing and bedding and other linens. Which would suck really really bad. But I'm more worried about all my beer and wine. Can I keep that?
I'm all stressed out. Please don't be a methlab, I love this apartment. But there are so many signs that it is...I'm so stupid. I didn't know the signs when I first moved in...

 

[CDbrews]

Thats crazy, what are some of the signs?

 

[northernlad]

How could you miss your room-mate dressed in lab whites with a respirator surrounded by bunson burners and empty boxes of Suda-Fed? Rookie.
Seriously, are you sayng the apartment you moved into used to be a methlab?
I think that consitutes a danger to you as a tenant and clearly affords you the right to rescind your lease with the property owner.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

If the place is being used for illicit purposes, and for some reason your apartment gets searched, I'd be willing to bet that they mistake your brew gear for "lab" equipment. Sounds like you might need to move...and call the police (maybe reverse the order of the two).

 

[thejerk]

I would not only be released from my rental agreement, I'd be evicted immediately by the health department and they would seize all linens, clothing, etc. I'm afraid they woud seize the homebrew too.
I'm saying previous tenants ran a meth lab here. There is remnants of what looks like kitty litter in a basement room that was once secured with an external padlock. In that same room i have found a bottle of ferric chloride. Those two items alone make me almost certain, as they are commonly used together to produce meth. There are lots of nails in the wall that could be used for hanging tubing as well as a hole drilled through the wall for the tubing. I have found that my walls have been sweating brown, and there is a bit of carpeting that has red stains that didn't come out when we had the carpets cleaned. These are all huge methlab signs. I didn't know any of this before a local news story about people who just found out their house was a former meth lab, and I started reading up.
I am freaking out. I'm going to be homeless and shirtless and beerless and I've got finals in a couple of weeks and I love this apartment...

 

[MeatyPortion]

So how will the health department find out if you don't tell them? Besides, that's something the landlord should have investigated about earlier. Look at it this way: If the previous tenants were meth-fiends and the landlord found out about it and he didn't say anything (to you or the authorities) then he's in the wrong. If the previous tenants were meth-fiends and the landlord didn't know about it then he does a pretty crappy end-of-lease inspection and he's in the wrong. Basically it's on your landlord.

 

[Jaybird]

Oh Crap!!
Step 1: Move beer to a secure location!!!!
Step 2: Stay with the beer at said location!!!!
Step 3: Never go back to old location!!!!

 

[thejerk]

So how will the health department find out if you don't tell them? Besides, that's something the landlord should have investigated about earlier. Look at it this way: If the previous tenants were meth-fiends and the landlord found out about it and he didn't say anything (to you or the authorities) then he's in the wrong. If the previous tenants were meth-fiends and the landlord didn't know about it then he does a pretty crappy end-of-lease inspection and he's in the wrong. Basically it's on your landlord.

Definitely telling the health department. If this was a methlab then my abode is one giant carcinogenic cave. I wouldn't want to spend another day here. I also wouldn't want anybody else to live in the carcinogenic cave. It would also be the only way out of my lease and if a test comes back positive, then I'm pretty sure the testing agency is required to notify the health dept anyway.
From everything I find there's not a lot of recourse against landlords in these cases. They're not required to test for meth and there's usually no way to prove their negligence. I'd sure try though. Maybe I should hurry and get renter's insurance first...

 

[MeatyPortion]

Definitely cover your ass here. Start taking pictures and video, documenting everything you see. Hopefully you've got some pictures from when you moved in; also the pre-move in inspection forms would be handy along with any photos the landlord has (not that he might be willing to give them up).

 

[mitch171]

Get the renter's insurance right now, before you send the test in. It is real cheap anyway and transferable to a new renting location.

 

[weirdboy]

I would not only be released from my rental agreement, I'd be evicted immediately by the health department and they would seize all linens, clothing, etc. I'm afraid they woud seize the homebrew too.
I'm saying previous tenants ran a meth lab here. There is remnants of what looks like kitty litter in a basement room that was once secured with an external padlock. In that same room i have found a bottle of ferric chloride. Those two items alone make me almost certain, as they are commonly used together to produce meth. There are lots of nails in the wall that could be used for hanging tubing as well as a hole drilled through the wall for the tubing. I have found that my walls have been sweating brown, and there is a bit of carpeting that has red stains that didn't come out when we had the carpets cleaned. These are all huge methlab signs. I didn't know any of this before a local news story about people who just found out their house was a former meth lab, and I started reading up.
I am freaking out. I'm going to be homeless and shirtless and beerless and I've got finals in a couple of weeks and I love this apartment...

Wait a minute...how is it you can move into an apartment in this condition, and the owner is unaware of its state? It's standard practice for the owner/manager to go over the property once it is vacated to clean, fix appliances, paint, etc. to make it ready for the next tenant.

I would say if things are really like that in your place, the owner has been grossly negligent and you don't need to call the health department to get out of your contract. Just find another place now and get your stuff out, THEN call the health department.

 

[Saccharomyces]

I would say if things are really like that in your place, the owner has been grossly negligent and you don't need to call the health department to get out of your contract. Just find another place now and get your stuff out, THEN call the health department.

Yes, and sue the landlord for negligence. You should be able to find a scumbag lawyer who will take the case with no cash up front in exchange for half the settlement.

Oh, and if you get renter's insurance NOW with the intent of recovering any losses, it's called FRAUD, and you will end up in more trouble than the landlord.

 

[mitch171]

The thing is they don't confiscate stuff for punishment or just for the fun of it. You probably don't want to be wearing clothes that are contaminated. It would suck but the health department is trying to protect your health. If you get the renters insurance you might at least be able to recover your monetary loss and buy new stuff.

 

[mitch171]

Oh, and if you get renter's insurance NOW with the intent of recovering any losses, it's called FRAUD, and you will end up in more trouble than the landlord.

As I am not familiar with the technicalities and I would like to know for my own information. You can only buy insurance when you don't even suspect a problem?

It seems to me that as long as the insurance is purchased before the test kit is sent in, it would be fine. For all he knows the test will be negative and he will still have the insurance, which is a good thing. If it does come back positive then he is covered. I think it is fraud if he finds out that it is in fact contaminated and then buys insurance.

Also when you buy insurance aren't you always intending on recovering any loses. I thought it is only fraud if you intend on recovering loses that occurred before purchasing the insurance, or you plan on causing the losses. For example you get the test back and then buy insurance, the loss has already been confirmed and it is too late. Or if you buy insurance then start a fire intentionally.

I may be way off I am in no way an insurance expert.

 

[Pappers_]

I really, really love HBT. There is no other place or part of my life where I hear about someone worrying that they may be living in a former meth lab.

OP, hope it works out for you, asap.

 

[Saccharomyces]

Also when you buy insurance aren't you always intending on recovering any loses. I thought it is only fraud if you intend on recovering loses that occurred before purchasing the insurance, or you plan on causing the losses. For example you get the test back and then buy insurance, the loss has already been confirmed and it is too late. Or if you buy insurance then start a fire intentionally.

If you suspected you lived in a meth lab, and bought insurance with the EXPECTATION of incurring losses, I would convict you for intent to defraud if I were on the jury hearing the case. I'm not saying I'm a lawyer either, but it seems pretty clear to me this is over the line. OP might get away with it or he might end up being bubba's *****.

Sorry man, it sucks, but at least you have some good beer to cry into if you get it out.

The apartment will end up being stripped. If the landlord is insured, you contents are probably not covered, but they are still going to owe you liability coverage if you end up getting sick from living there. If he is underinsured or uninsured, your best bet is going to be to file suit.

 

[weirdboy]

The apartment will end up being stripped. If the landlord is insured, you contents are probably not covered, but they are still going to owe you liability coverage if you end up getting sick from living there. If he is underinsured or uninsured, your best bet is going to be to file suit.

With the landlord being grossly negligent, you will have recourse to sue for damages to cover any clothes, equipment, etc. that would get confiscated. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean you'd actually end up getting that money. The landlord might not have the money to cover any settlement or damages awarded, and you'd be left to foot the bill.

Don't go thinking that the landlord's insurance is going to cover it, either.

 

[mitch171]

I would contact a renter's insurance agency and just be upfront about everything and see what they say. As they are the experts and it wouldn't hurt to at least ask.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

If you get insurance now, you are completely in the right. You do not have a confirmed problem but you are worried about one. That is why you buy insurance. Call your insurer and ask them.

Good luck. Maybe go stay with a friend until this gets sorted out.

 

[ElPresidente77]

Get a lawyer!

 

[shek]

Wait a minute...how is it you can move into an apartment in this condition, and the owner is unaware of its state? It's standard practice for the owner/manager to go over the property once it is vacated to clean, fix appliances, paint, etc. to make it ready for the next tenant.

The RE collapse has created a lot of unwilling landlords, some are just clueless, and some are ********.

 

[springer]

Get the renter's insurance right now, before you send the test in. It is real cheap anyway and transferable to a new renting location.

Why?

As I am not familiar with the technicalities and I would like to know for my own information. You can only buy insurance when you don't even suspect a problem?

It seems to me that as long as the insurance is purchased before the test kit is sent in, it would be fine. For all he knows the test will be negative and he will still have the insurance, which is a good thing. If it does come back positive then he is covered. I think it is fraud if he finds out that it is in fact contaminated and then buys insurance.

Also when you buy insurance aren't you always intending on recovering any loses. I thought it is only fraud if you intend on recovering loses that occurred before purchasing the insurance, or you plan on causing the losses. For example you get the test back and then buy insurance, the loss has already been confirmed and it is too late. Or if you buy insurance then start a fire intentionally.

I may be way off I am in no way an insurance expert.

Insurance will only pay for a covered loss ...Liability, Fire ,Theft, water damage vandalism, falling object ,lightning strike/ power surge ... Not for the seizure of his property by the Health dept. No fraud because its not a claim . Chemical and or organic contamination is excluded from homeowners and renters policies. As is flood

I would check police records and see if any arrests and or complaints of drug activity were made for that address. If yes then the landlord is aware of them and is liable.

 

[RDWHAHB]

I hate it when that happens.

 

[thejerk]

Thanks for advisement everybody. I'm still kind of at a loss on the insurance thing. Too many conflicting opinions on the homebrew board...
I've got four full carboys right now. Moving all the bottled stuff won't be too bad, even though there's the better part of 18 batches still in bottles right now (I brew way more than I drink, and don't keg for multiple reasons). I guess I've got to hurry and bottle this stuff out of the carboys in case I have to move really quick. I really hate to take my old ale out of bulk storage already though, it's only been in secondary for a couple of weeks. This also means I'm going to have to take a brewing hiatus.
I feel a lot better after my roommate called and talked to the health department. We've probably got some time after we get our independent test. If it comes back over accepted levels, then the property owner will have to have an official test done through the state. In the meantime, unless my private result returns extremely alarming data and the building gets posted with a NO ENTRY placard, I would have a chance to start moving out. Sealed consumables are salvagable from a meth contamination by washing the exterior with mild detergent. That's a lot of bottles to wash.
Why would anybody want to cook and take meth when they can cook and drink beer?? Freakin' idiots.

 

[thejerk]

Heh. I was just reading how to recognize a methlab here: http://www.forensic-applications.com/meth/recognition.html

I match a lot of these warning signs myself as a homebrewer.
Chemicals (Iodophor, Oxyclean, Star-San), propane tanks, rubber tubing, strange equipment and glassware, "jars" containing unidentified liquids, and modified coolers.
They're gonna think that I was running the methlab myself.

 

[Synovia]

Heh. I was just reading how to recognize a methlab here: http://www.forensic-applications.com/meth/recognition.html

I match a lot of these warning signs myself as a homebrewer.
Chemicals (Iodophor, Oxyclean, Star-San), propane tanks, rubber tubing, strange equipment and glassware, "jars" containing unidentified liquids, and modified coolers.
They're gonna think that I was running the methlab myself.

Yeah, a guy with a cat, fishtank, and beer meets almost all of these.

 

[Edcculus]

Damn, after looking at that list, my apartment looks sketchy! I leave out starsan and PBW on the counter sometimes, hang hoses to dry, have a stir plate going, etc. They just did a "bank inspection" of my apartment. I hope they didn't think I was cooking meth!

 

[the_bird]

Do you also have

Unusual quantities of pornography, or indiscreetly placed sexual toys.

???

 

[Cheeto]

I have brewed on my front porch three times now, and the neighbor next door moved out.

I wonder what they were thinking ?

 

[MBasile]

If you suspected you lived in a meth lab, and bought insurance with the EXPECTATION of incurring losses, I would convict you for intent to defraud if I were on the jury hearing the case. I'm not saying I'm a lawyer either, but it seems pretty clear to me this is over the line. OP might get away with it or he might end up being bubba's *****.

Isn't that the point of insurance? You suspect you may incur losses for any reason, so you buy insurance to cover the risk. If I moved into a bad area, would I not be able to get insurance because I already know it is a bad area and I'm at a higher risk of getting my stuff stolen?

 

[mitch171]

Like I said I am no insurance expert. I do however feel you should have renters insurance regardless... For me it was like $25 a year at my old place and now it is still under $100 for the year.

I wonder what people think of me...

I often drive my equipment between my apartment and my parents house as I brew at both locations. I once was driving around town with a huge hop vine laying in the back of my car, my mom who works at the jail later said she wouldn't have been surprised if I got pulled over and brought me in to check things out. Guys I drive a MINI Cooper people can see everything, coper coils, "modified coolers," glass jars with settled solids. strange gas cylinders, lots of cleaning supplies. I also have a cat=cat liter. I also paint so I have "artistic creations." One of my other hobbies is growing orchids this involves more chemicals and grow lights...

So all I need is to hide some gun, get some ornamental knives, leave some porn and "toys" around and stop cleaning my apartment then I will have a meth lab I guess.

 

[Rushis]

Wow, this website is paranoia fuel.

Based on their list everyone house could easily be suspect for a meth den.
Perhaps the subtle mixture of bleach, ammonia and paint thinner odors would be a more reliable indication.

 

[kornkob]

Why do those 'warning signs' strike us as odd? Because they are designed not with the idea of giving people the benefit of the doubt but to give the police as much latitude in their work as possible.

They design these things to make it as easy as possible to substantiate probable cause and once executing the warrant, as easy as possible to take as much as they can with them as evidence.


A cop might say:
"While talking to the subject, I could see from my vantage at the front door that the house was messy and in disarray. There were jars containing unidentified liquids and solids on the hallway table. On the floor under the table I saw an open and apparently empty sudafed package. In the room beyond I could see what appeared to be an array of ornamental knives on the wall surrounded by bizarre writings. Beneath that I could see a dismantled machine of some sort as well as some twisted brass. There was a small pile of cat litter on the floor next to these items.

According to training I received at a forensics seminar these are indicators of meth production. Coupled with the subject's nervous behavior, these indicators provide me with reasonable suspicion that the dwelling is being used for the production of meth."



Yeah-- I just described my Dad's house (if you come to the 'front' door instead of the common entrance-- the side door) if you look in the front door to the 'parlor' he uses as a workshop.

 

[mitch171]

Dude you're Dad is making meth...

JK gotta love reasonable cause.

 

[MBasile]

I think you guys are overlooking the quantity of cleaning solution and kitty litter, and their use.

 

[friarjohn]

Is season 3 of Breaking Bad back on yet?

 

[Rushis]

I think you guys are overlooking the quantity of cleaning solution and kitty litter, and their use.

Wouldn't the quantity of raw materials (kitty litter, bleach, ammonia, etc.) depend on the size of the operation?

And that Cat litter jug with the hose sticking out of it... looks a lot like a blow off tube that I rigged after appreciating a large number of homebrews.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Meth is made from kitty litter and cleaning solution??? I just don't understand drug users....

 

[kornkob]

You drink something made of rotting food, weeds and fungus. One of the main rallying cries around here is to not fear the foam of a chemical sanitizer that is left in the vessels in which this drinkis made.


*shrug*

 

[bernerbrau]

Wow, this website is paranoia fuel.

Based on their list everyone house could easily be suspect for a meth den.
Perhaps the subtle mixture of bleach, ammonia and paint thinner odors would be a more reliable indication.

Wow, a lot of those are also used in homebrewing.

Glass containers containing biphasic materials... like beer over settled-out yeast. Geez.