I NEED help with my efficiency
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I've never had an efficiency increase of more than 1-2 points by doing multiple sparges. Not worth my time.
ahacreative
Well-Known Member
my experience has been just the opposite: double sparge, hard stirs both times, and my efficiency goes up. i check the gravity in my first runnings, first and second sparge, and i can measure the difference the effort makes.
Well, if it works for you....I average 80-85% with a single sparge so I don't feel the need to expend any more effort.
ahacreative
Well-Known Member
good point. of i got 85% from a single sparge i'd be there too.
doctorRobert
Well-Known Member
Use more sparge water, stir the crap out of it, and boil harder to make up for the extra spare water.
You can even batch sparge twice, just cut the volume in half, that should help your efficiency.
Also, try extending your mash time.
You can even batch sparge twice, just cut the volume in half, that should help your efficiency.
Also, try extending your mash time.
Well I will try over the next several brews to see if I can find different things to increase the efficiency. I'm not sure exactly what answer I was looking for, I'm sure it would help a lot if I had someone here with me haha. I'm sure it will take some fine tuning and all. It's not that the beer I am making is bad, but it is just not as good as I wish it would be. Especially since I now have the setup for lagering, I would hate to waste three months for a mediocre beer.
So sorry to thread hijack, but i wanted to report back regarding speed of runoff. I have read on here various opinions regarding rate of runoff vs efficiency. My first couple batches of all grain, i ran off fast (batch sparging) and had poor efficiency, like in the 50's. I tried regulating runoff rate and noted a significant rise in efficiency into the low 70's pretty consistently. So i chimed in my opinion on this thread and was told runoff rate makes no difference........so i figured id give it a shot today.....fall other things being equal as far as my typical brew day goes, except i made a point to stir my mash much more often, and i ran it off quickly, both the first runnings and the batch sparge. My efficiency today is back into the 50% range.
So with all due respect to those of you that disagree that runoff rate when batch sparging doesnt matter, i am going back to my slow regualted runoff, so i can get my efficiency back into the 70's.
So with all due respect to those of you that disagree that runoff rate when batch sparging doesnt matter, i am going back to my slow regualted runoff, so i can get my efficiency back into the 70's.
If it works for you, that's what you should do. But I can tell you I've tested it dozens of times and it makes no difference for me or many others. It makes me wonder if there's something else in your system or procedure that's a factor.
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
I used to be in the same boat, but now I'm back to running off fast, without any rest time. I did this yesterday and got 81% efficiency. At this point I'm pretty sure my early problems were more of a conversion problem than a lautering issue. Now that I treat my water and crush a lot finer, I can run off really fast on the sparge...
hmmmm.......maybe ill try double crushing. I have a fixed roller mill. seems like i get a decent crush, but maybe thats my problem. My pH today was pretty much on the money. 5.3 or 5.4....
Makes a lot of sense to me.....
Definitely try double milling! And +1 to the LHBS conspiracy...
I've been stuck at ~ 70% efficiency for a while, and was kind of worried about it when I went and did a hefeweisen recently, as a previous batch that was wheat heavy had particularly low efficiency (low 60's). My LHBS lets you mill your own grain, so I double-milled the wheat for my hefe, and low and behold I hit my usual efficiency of ~ 70%! Fast forward to this past weekend...I brew my usual APA, and I double milled the entire grain bill...my efficiency was easily up to 75%! I have two more batches coming up soon, and I double milled both grain bills, so we'll see if my experience holds up...
I definitely agree that milling your own grain is the first step to ensure consistent efficiency!
I do not think there is an LHBS conspiracy in defense, I think it's just that they don't always have the highest quality mill to handle the amount and variety of grain they mill and they don't take the time to re-calibrate their gaps as often as they should. In addition I think they err on the side I caution so their clients aren't getting stuck sparges.
Seriously, they are in the business of selling product but they also want happy customers and if they were purposely pissing people off with crappy service then they would lose clients. Even my LHBS admits that they don't calibrate or replace a frequently as they should but will definitely adjust things if someone asks for their grain milled. IMO the places that refuse to accommodate this request are the ones doing a disservice to themselves
I do not think there is an LHBS conspiracy in defense, I think it's just that they don't always have the highest quality mill to handle the amount and variety of grain they mill and they don't take the time to re-calibrate their gaps as often as they should. In addition I think they err on the side I caution so their clients aren't getting stuck sparges.
Seriously, they are in the business of selling product but they also want happy customers and if they were purposely pissing people off with crappy service then they would lose clients. Even my LHBS admits that they don't calibrate or replace a frequently as they should but will definitely adjust things if someone asks for their grain milled. IMO the places that refuse to accommodate this request are the ones doing a disservice to themselves
Well I think within the next week or two I will try it again, still not sure what I'm gonna brew though. I will give the mill a little tightening and maybe let the mash go for 90 mins? Ya think that might help me out a little on my conversion?
Only if it didn't convert in 60 minutes
which isn't likely.do you have any iodine or iodophor to check conversion?
I've had mashes at 156 degrees convert in 20 minutes, and every single mash has always shown conversion by 60 minutes (although I might go longer when I have lots of adjuncts like oats).
Haha well I guess that's true. I just didn't know if anyone has mashed for a longer period and increased efficiency. Is there anything that inhibits conversion besides water quantity, heat, and Ph? I just can't understand what might be the deal is. I know someone mentioned stirring, but I stir the absolute crap out of it, without foaming it up of course.
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
Tighten up that Corona mill! Make sure there are no uncrushed grains after you mill. If there are then you aren't crushing fine enough. Are you using the hand crank on the mill, or are you using a drill motor. If you use a drill motor, don't turn it too fast. Excessive speed can allow full, uncrushed grains to slip through.
Get some iodine to check for conversion like Yooper said. You can use Iodine Tincture from the drugstore. If you don't get a good iodine test at 60 minutes, then let it go 90 minutes. It won't hurt anything. If after 90 minutes you still don't have conversion then you have a temp or pH problem..
Get some iodine to check for conversion like Yooper said. You can use Iodine Tincture from the drugstore. If you don't get a good iodine test at 60 minutes, then let it go 90 minutes. It won't hurt anything. If after 90 minutes you still don't have conversion then you have a temp or pH problem..
Well last time I brewed I used the corona mill, I tightened it up to where I had no crushed grains and I'm gonna say roughly 5% flour. I checked it pretty thoroughly and didn't see any whole grains, but it could probably stand a little tightening. But we will see if it improves in a week or two. I just wasn't sure if there was something I wasn't considering that I could adjust in the process. As far as temp goes, I have tested the digital thermometer I have and at boiling it shows 211.5, ice cold water it shows right at 32. So it seems to be accurate.
My experience, and that of may others, is that it doesn't usually work and it gives the beer a weird flavor due to the amount of sodium in it.
Yes, and that is a big issue. First, it gives a weird salty flavor to the beer if you use the recommended amount (and maybe even if you use less). And secondly, it doesn't "lock in mash pH" anyway. So not only do you have a flavor impact, but it doesn't work!
There may be one or two specific instances where it may work, and I considered (briefly) using it for my sparge water to neutralize some of my alkalinity in the sparge water. But for the most part, it simply doesn't do what it is supposed to do, and it causes a flavor issue besides.
For sale: one half jar of 5.2 mash stabilizer.
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
I can top that..
I have a container that's only been used to brew with once. So, it's basically full! Heck, I'll give it away for free!
When I used it, I actually got normal conversion and no off flavors, but I try hard enough to cut out the sodium in my water without adding more back in. For that reason I never used it again.
It might be helpful to post an actual recipe. Complete with mash volume, sparge volume, temps, boil time and volume.
I brewed for years and never had problems. When I first started using Beer Smith the numbers seemed weird to me but I went with it because I figured it MUST be smarter than me. My numbers were no where close to what BS said... Turns out I just needed to make the adjustments in BS for my system. I originally picked one of the templates (that was very close) and thought I should be good to go. With some tweaking to the BS settings over the first 4 or 5 batches I'm now hitting numbers very consistently.
Just a thought. Good luck!
I brewed for years and never had problems. When I first started using Beer Smith the numbers seemed weird to me but I went with it because I figured it MUST be smarter than me. My numbers were no where close to what BS said... Turns out I just needed to make the adjustments in BS for my system. I originally picked one of the templates (that was very close) and thought I should be good to go. With some tweaking to the BS settings over the first 4 or 5 batches I'm now hitting numbers very consistently.
Just a thought. Good luck!
5.2 isn't worthless - it's just promising things that can't possibly be true. Water chemistry is incredibly complex with infinite different combinations of each key mineral. The idea that 1 addition of anything would optimize all of those infinite combinations is an obvious overstatement. It will help some brewers in some situations with some grain bills. For others, it will be adding minerals that are already too high and that can affect the flavor profile. The people who say it helped them aren't lying - they just happened to have a water profile that benefited from what 5.2 is adding.
Obviously, that's true. It's just that there seem to be very few of these people. I've read a lot more negative reports about 5.2 than positive ones. But, like everything else in homebrewing, if it works for you, you should do it. But assess the results objectively. Actually check the mash pH, don't assume it's right after using it. Brew back to back batches of the same recipe, one with and one without 5.2, and do a blind triangle tasting.
Well I took the advice of several people on this thread and my efficiency is now up to 72%! Bought a new mash paddle, stirred the absolute **** out of the mash, and tightened up the corona mill a little. I was scared to death of a stuck sparge because this was the first time I brewed without any rice hulls, also got to try out my new keggle, which worked out well but with the IPA I brewed today, it sucked up a lot of hops. Oh well though, its looking better.
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
Awesome! 72% we can live with!
I know. I feel so much better about myself now. I think I can tweak the corona mill a little more and squeeze a few more points out of it. But thanks to all that replied to this thread. I appreciate it.
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
Ztp said:
I know, you were starting to look like a terrible husband and father with that low efficiency you were getting before
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
I know, you were starting to look like a terrible husband and father with that low efficiency you were getting before
I guess we can let him keep his man card a little longer! haha..
This is one of the most important replies I think. If your temperature at the reading is higher than the calibrated temperature of the hydrometer then your reading is going to end up being lower. That is part of your efficiency right there.
I mill my own grain at 1mm gap. I use a constant recirc direct fire setup. I stir only at dough-in and then I don't touch the mash unless it seems like it's clogging. I adjust flow of the recirc based on what I'm seeing in my sight glass. When it comes time to sparge, I use a continuous sparge - running off the first 1/3rd or so and then pulling over wort as fast as I can while still maintaining a layer of water above the mash. I use a spray nozzle to deliver the sparge water.
With this setup, my efficiencies have been over 90%. This has really been screwing me up because I've been planning recipes at 80%. I'd rather have your problem of coming in low - at least you can just boil a little longer until you hit your gravity! I'd have to add water which is not possible on a whim unless I have boiled water laying around.
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
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