I know I don't need to toss it, but...

[mvius]

I've brewed a bunch of Coopers kits in the past. One turned out great, the others... meh. So I thought I'd try a Festa Brew Cream Ale kit.

I started it on Monday Jan 13 in a primary fermenter (pail w/lid) and last night (Jan 16) I racked to the secondary fermenter (carboy) as per the instructions (I know, I know...). It had reached what I believed to be the proper final gravity (1.013), so I took off the heating belt which had kept it at around 23-24 degrees C (around 74F). The room it's in now is at around 19 C (66F). I now realize that the final gravity probably (?) means after adding priming sugar and secondary fermentation (which I plan on doing in bottle).

Today I found this forum and it sounds like some very wise brewers here recommend letting it sit in the primary for an extended period (2 weeks or more) in contrast to the instructions. I've historically been a winemaker, and letting wine sit in a primary for that long would ruin the batch as too much air gets to it, so doing so for a beer makes me nervous. I do understand it's a different beast though.

So now I figure I have two problems - I transferred to the carboy far too early and I've dropped the temp considerably. I'm sure this can be salvaged, but would like some advice, some related to this batch, some in general.

Questions:
1. Any advice?
2. Can I simply add a heating belt, bring the temp back up and let continue with fermentation?
3. Is there any chance I ruin it by letting it sit in the carboy for, say, 2 weeks at this point?
4. (General) Isn't it an issue to have too much air reach the brew once fermentation has slowed considerably (presumeably this is is why we transfer to a vessel with an airlock)?
5. (General) If the yeast does its job and processes all the sugar in the wort, don't they die off? I'm curious because I often have issues with secondary fermentation (such as ending up with a flat beer) so I wonder if there simply isn't enough yeast left when I bottle it?

Thank you in advance for any support you can give!

 

[Trox]

1) Don't worry it's fine.

2) No need the fermentation is done; the FG is what you want before adding the priming sugar and bottling

3) No; I have had beers sitting in the fermentor for 4 weeks, and have 1 beer (a Wee Heavy) that will be sitting in my carboy until April or May before I even think of bottling it.

4) No CO2 (a by-product fromt eh yeast eating all that sugar) is heavier than air so it will stay on top of the beer for months before you have to worry about oxidation (as long as you don't disturb the carboy).

5) It actually takes a lot to kill off yeast (usually high temps or bad bacterias), once they run out of food they'll just go dormant. If your beer is flat after bottling then you are either not adding enough priming sugar or not letting them bottle condition enough. There are some good sites and programs that will give you a good indication of how much priming sugar you should use, and you should let those botles sit for about 3 weeks to let them carb up. After that they need to rest in the fridge for 3 days to a week to let the carbonation settle into the beer itself.

 

[adamdillabo]

You really would like to have your temps lower in the beginning. I start around 19c for the first few days then go up to 21C when it's closer to finished. I work in Fahrenheit so I'm just guessing based on your conventions.

Beer will be fine if left undisturbed. I thought the problem with wine became the open fermenter as well as trub from the grapes and tannins.

 

[mvius]

Great, thanks for the input to you both! Very helpful! Some comments/questions below...

Good advice/info

I think I worry about that CO2 cap dissipating. I know I should just let the bugger sit but I'm like a doting father with these things, often to their detriment. I'll end up double checking the gravity (my primary is a loose fitting one, no airlock), etc. As a practice, I'll generally rack to a water-locked carboy earlier than I should to save it from myself.

What temp should the bottles be stored at for the 3 weeks? My problem is that I've got an unfinished basement that gets fairly cold. It's usually around 66F down there. I end up using a combination of a large bin or cooler, blankets and heating belt to bring the temp up for them to the high 60's or so.

You really would like to have your temps lower in the beginning. I start around 19c for the first few days then go up to 21C when it's closer to finished. I work in Fahrenheit so I'm just guessing based on your conventions.

Beer will be fine if left undisturbed. I thought the problem with wine became the open fermenter as well as trub from the grapes and tannins.

Thanks for the tips! I'm new to the beer side of things, so I went for what's generally good for the wines I make as well as what the instructions said (maybe on the higher end though). Also thanks for introducing me to the term trub (wine lees = beer trub)!

You hit it on the head - open fermenter and sitting on the gross lees. Sitting on the gross lees (gross lees is specifically the sediment from the initial fermentation) can produce off flavours. You would definitely want to rack the wine off of the gross lees before the 2+ week period that is being suggested for beer (in my experience).

From your advice, it sounds like the primary fermentation of beer should be at a lower temperature, which I presume results in it fermenting slower as well. At the temps I ferment wine (I generally ferment at 74, with the yeast range around 66-77), it happens fairly rapidly. At times the primary looks like a freshly poured soda with the amount of rolling CO2 released. 5 gallons of a wine that ends up around 13% alcohol spends a week in the primary for me before racking into secondary and it ends up pretty close to fermented out at that time.

Additionally, wine tends to need babysitting so you're checking the fermenting must and taking sg readings often (maybe that's just me) which kills the CO2 cap. The wine turns out much better when racked earlier in my experience.

A caveat on wine-making talk from me - I make pretty decent wine, but I'm certainly not a pro. What I say works for me, but there are more knowledgeable people out there. This is a beer forum so please ignore my ranting as it's just to help me relate to this new experience!

Cheers!

 

[jrgtr42]

usually when brewing beer you want a sealed fermenter.
with beer, small amounts of oxygen can and do create lots of problems in the finished product.
I don't know what you mean by having an unsealed or open fermenter - I thought that wine was best in ones like beer - but best bet would be, next time you're in buying ingredients (or ordering on line, get an "ale pail" or the like - a 6.5 - 7 gallon bucket with tight sealing lid. I would personally advise to keep the primaries for wine and beer separate anyways (don't use one for both.)
The ale pail will hold any standard batch, with room for krausen, sealed against oxygen ingress (there are arguments against using them that they aren't completely impermeable, but that wouldn't become an issue for months and months in there.)

 

[mvius]

usually when brewing beer you want a sealed fermenter.
with beer, small amounts of oxygen can and do create lots of problems in the finished product.
I don't know what you mean by having an unsealed or open fermenter - I thought that wine was best in ones like beer - but best bet would be, next time you're in buying ingredients (or ordering on line, get an "ale pail" or the like - a 6.5 - 7 gallon bucket with tight sealing lid. I would personally advise to keep the primaries for wine and beer separate anyways (don't use one for both.)
The ale pail will hold any standard batch, with room for krausen, sealed against oxygen ingress (there are arguments against using them that they aren't completely impermeable, but that wouldn't become an issue for months and months in there.)

My primary is a pail with a lid that seals on, however I sit the lid on snug but not sealed. For wine, that's not an issue given the speed it ferments. As I said in my last post, I transfer to the secondary before it becomes an issue. Sounds like it's more of an issue for beer though.

After the first beer batch, I made the mistake of using the same primary for a batch of wine. Disaster. Learned my lesson there and now have separate primaries.

Thanks for the advice on the ale pail! I've seen people use the same pail I use but then drill a hole large enough for an airlock/bung so you can totally seal it. I may give that a try. If I still see problems, I'll look into the ale pail!

Thanks!