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I have beer ingredients but no recipe...

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littlewolfrus

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Hi everyone! First post here. Alright, so a few weeks ago I went to my local brew shop and purchased a recipe kit for a nut brown ale for a 5 gallon batch. I got two big bags of various grains, a package of hops, some yeast, a campden tablet and a smaller white tablet.

Anyhow, I went last week to get the recipe off the website and the store went out of business (along with the website) so no recipe to go with what I have.

I can't tell for sure but it seems like the two bags might have slightly different grains from one another. Also, where's my malt? Would it be mixed in the bags and not included as a separate extract package?

I'm new to beer brewing but not new to booze making (Wine, mead, hard lemonade, apple wine, distilling absynthe, rice wine, etc). I figured I'd go ahead and make the batch up and hope for the best but any advice with the ingredients I listed? Specifically on where my malt is?
 
It sounds like you got an all grain recipe, the grains are the malt. How many lbs do you have? How much hops do you have and do you know what kind they are? Also what yeast?
 
Hey!

I have about 10.3 pounds of grains. The hops are UK Challenger (2oz) and the yeast is Lallemand Nottingham ale yeast (11 grams).
 
Definitely an all grain batch. Do you have a mash tun? I would say an oz of those hops used for bittering and the other oz for aroma. Just a guess. The difference between extract and all grain is with an extract batch, you already have the sugars from the grain pre packaged. With all of that grain, you have to mash the grains yourself to get your "malt extract", which is why there is no malt extract like you were expecting. Sorry if that doesn't make sense, I'm a little tipsy.
 
Yep, sounds like an all grain recipe. How big is your pot? You could do BIAB style though you'll likely have to sparge unless you've got a big pot. I'd mash at around 152-154, then 1 oz challenger at 60 min and 1 oz at 5 min.
 
The bag of grain is the malt. :)

Do you know what the old website was? You might can still find it with the Internet "wayback machine" (at archive.org)
 
Just a note... the process I'm recommending is called BIAB - which I've actually never done before. I do a method called mashing, so be sure to seek verification from other posters that the process I've outlined is correct. Nonetheless, I hope it helps. Also, to note, you'll need a very large stock-pot for this... probably at least 10 gallon capacity.

1) Your malt is the grains. Since you're doing a brown ale, there's probably a base grain (the sugars of which will mostly ferment into alcohol) and a specialty grain (that mostly doesn't ferment and will add more colour and flavor). If one is darker, then it's probably the specialty grain. Both of these grains need to be milled in order to be useful for brewing. I'll assume that you don't have a grain mill. If the grains don't look all crushed up (but not to the point of being like flower), then you need to get them milled. Your local home brew store (LHBS) can likely mill them for you.

2) The hops will add flavor to the beer. What particular type of hops they are and how long they are boiled for will determine what flavors they add to the beer. Generally speaking, boiling them for a long time (30-60 mins) will impart a bittering flavor to the beer. Boiling them for less time (10-30 mins) will impart a flavor particular to the hops (such as pine flavor, citrusy, etc). Adding them very late (0-10 mins) as well as 'dry hopping' (adding them to the fermenter once fermention is near the end) lends more of an aroma to the beer. Depending on how much hops you have, I would consider splitting it into 2 or 3 groups and add one group to boil with the beer for 60 mins, and the other for maybe 15 mins.

3) The campden tablet is to remove the chlorine/chloramines out of you water before you start brewing. Usually 1/2 a tablet is good for a 5-gallon batch.

4) I have no idea what the other small white tablet is... someone else will have to chime in.

Process:

1) We need to extract the starch out of the grains and convert that starch into sugar. We do that by milling them and then steeping them in hot water. For steeping, I use something called a Mash-tun for this, but there's no need to go out and buy or build expensive equipment. Instead you can do something called brew-in-a-bag (BIAB), which is essentially using a process like a tea-bag, called a muslin bag. I've not done BIAB before, so someone else can correct me if giving wrong instructions. Get one of these bags from your LHBS, and have them mill the grains. You'll also need sanitizer, but I assume you'll have that from your other booze-making experience.

2) Measure out your water supply, accounting for boil off, grain absorption and a little bit sucked up by the hops and break material (basically some non-harmful gunk that'll get left over in the bottom of your kettle). If you know the weight of the grain, and your desired target volume (5 gallons?) you can probably find an online calculator that will guestimate how much water you want to start with (or a BIAB aficionado can make a recommendation). Crush 1/2 of the campden tablet and stir it into the pot. Edit: I see you've added some of this information, so I've used a online calculator to determine that you need 7.1 gallons of water. I've not used this calculator before, so you may want to double check with other posters who do BIAB. Note, 7.1 gallons of water and 10.3 lbs of grain is going to take up a lot of space - you'll need a pot that can hold all of this comfortably (I'm guessing a minimum 10 gallon pot).

http://pricelessbrewing.github.io/BiabCalc/

3) Heat the water to approximately 164 F. (We're overshooting the 152 F target so that when you add the cooler grains, it will hopefully meet at 152F)

4) Add the bag of grains, being careful not the let it rest on the bottom of the pot whenever you have the flame on (hang it over the side of the pot if you can). You can cover it with a lid if that helps to keep a more consistent temperature.

5) Steep the bag of grains in this hot water for 1 hour, being careful to monitor its temperature and keep it in the 148-156 range (ideally around 152). Be very careful not to let it go above 168, as this will add tannins. (For this step I use a different process to target 152, so others can correct me if I'm wrong). One thing you can do is take the pot off the heat, and so long as it's stable, wrap the pot in a big warm blanket. I've never done that with a pot, but I do it with my mash-tun and over an hour I only lose 1-2 degrees.

6) Once it's steeped for an hour you should have a dark, sweet (and sticky) solution called 'wort'. Remove the grain bag and bring the wort to a boil. Be very careful because when it nears boiling it will foam up (and over the sides of your pot) leaving a sticky mess on anything it spills onto. This is called the 'hot break'. Avoid it spilling over by blowing on it, stirring it, turning down the heat, removing it from the burner, spraying cold water at it from a pump bottle... whatever you need to do to avoid having a mess that is difficult to clean.

7) Once it comes to a boil and you get the hot break, start a timer and add your first group of hops (or all of it, if you like). Boil for one hour. Note that it can at random times (but especially when you add hops) boil up again, so keep a careful eye on it. DO NOT cover it with a lid during the boil - the vapor needs to escape.

8) When there's 5-10 mins left to go in the hour long boil, add the second group of hops. Watch out for a boil over. If you get any hops sticking to the side of the pot after it boils up, try to splash it back down into the boiling wort (without making a mess outside the pot).

9) When the hour is up, take it off the heat. Now you need to cool it down to the temperature you want to pitch the yeast at. And ideally you want to cool it as quickly as possible. Once the beer sinks below pasteurization temperatures (150-ish?) it is prime time for wild bacteria to get in there an mess up your beer, hence why you want to get it down in temperature quickly. Move the pot over to the sink or bathtub and submerge the it in cold water (ice helps too). You should get it down to around 65 F. After it's been boiled and is now cooling down, anything that comes into contact with the wort ought to be clean and sanitized. While it's cooling you can put the lid on to keep out any bacteria that might be catching a ride on dust. Try to be sanitary and do this quickly, but don't be paranoid or anxious to the point that it ruins your enjoyment of the process.

10) Once it's down to 65, transfer it into your cleaned and sanitized fermentation bucket/carboy. Some people try to transfer as little of the break material (spongey-looking gunk and hop debris) as possible into the fermenter, others dump it all in. I tend to decide on the fly and I usually make the decision according to how much volume I appear to have in the pot - if it's looks like I'm a bit short I throw it all in, whereas if it looks like I have more than I need I try to leave the gunk behind. If you want to leave the gunk behind, try to let it settle to the bottom of the kettle and disturb it as little as possible while its cooling - this will help leave a lot of it behind in the kettle. The trade off is that you can't counter-stir it (with a sanitized spoon) to the direction cold water on the outside which cools it down significantly faster. Take a gravity reading so you can later determine how much alcohol is in this beer.

11) Aerate it. I use a sanitized paint stirrer attached to an electric drill. There are other methods (such as rolling a carboy around on a tennis ball). You want lots of oxygen to get in there - it will help the yeast.

12) Add the yeast. I assume it's dry yeast. It's best to 'rehydrate' the yeast (which you can work on doing while the pot is boiling during that hour), but if you pitch it 'dry' (i.e. right out of the package) you'll still have good beer.

13) Put the airlock on it (filled with sanitizer, vodka, or just plain water). A "blow off tube" is better than an airlock as it reduces the chances of the airlock getting clogged with krausen (crap that will gunk up the top of the beer). Google the term if you're unfamiliar and want to rig one up. Blow of tubes are only usually recommended for the first 2-3 days of fermentation.

14) While fermenting, you want to keep it's temperature probably around 65. Avoid going over 70, and if it looks like it will then use a "swamp cooler" (an easy rig from household materials) to keep it around 65ish. Then just wait... I'm sure you know the rest.

I hope that helps. Enjoy!
 
a campden tablet and a smaller white tablet.

Also, are you sure the small white tablet isn't the campden tablet? If the other one is about the diameter of a dime but really thick that's probably whirfloc. Campden is added to the brewing water beforehand to remove chlorine/chloramine, the whirfloc is added the last 5 min or so as a clarifying agent.
 
Also, are you sure the small white tablet isn't the campden tablet? If the other one is about the diameter of a dime but really thick that's probably whirfloc. Campden is added to the brewing water beforehand to remove chlorine/chloramine, the whirfloc is added the last 5 min or so as a clarifying agent.

I was just going to post this.
 
also, are you sure the small white tablet isn't the campden tablet? If the other one is about the diameter of a dime but really thick that's probably whirfloc. Campden is added to the brewing water beforehand to remove chlorine/chloramine, the whirfloc is added the last 5 min or so as a clarifying agent.

+1 ^^^
 
Thanks Andy for the detailed instructions and thanks everybody else!

My brew pot is around 5 gallons which is another one of my worries. I was waiting to get a larger pot but with Christmas around the corner that'll have to wait for my wallet to recover. With the amount of grains probably taking a large portion of the pot there's no chance really of being able to add 5 gallons of water to it.

I do remember from the recipe (when I first saw it) that the main grain was somewhere around the 8 lbs quantity so the remaining 2.3 pounds must be specialty. I do have the grain 'socks' or bags that came with it to add the grains to the pot.

The grains have been processed/milled/crushed. I saw the clerk do that in front of me.

Had I known the recipe wasn't included in my bags I would have saved a version of it offline. It is odd that it wouldn't be included at the time of purchase...perhaps a reason they went under. I tried the wayback machine as soon as I saw the website was off - noblehop.com. While most of the content is listed, the recipes are a blank.

And yes indeed that is whirfloc and campden. I image searched both of them and they match up so thanks for that!
 
I see 3 options:
1) do an all grain half batch, saving half of the ingredients for another time. This you can easily do in your 5 gal pot with a cheap paint strainer bag as your only additional equipment. This is probably the easiest option and we could walk you through it.

2) do a concentrated all grain batch then top off with water. I do this sometimes on my small system, i.e. make a concentrated 3 gal then top off with 2 gal in the fermenter, I do this in a 5 gal pot. You will very likely lose some efficiency and I might not recommend as your first all grain attempt

3) If the base grains really are separate from the specialty grains you could do this as a 5 gal partial mash and pick up some extract to make up the difference. You would mash all the specialty grains with at least the equivalent amount of base grain, saving the rest for something else. Then replace any base grain you didn't use with light extract - a rough estimate is for every 1 lb of grain you leave out replace with 0.6 lb DME or 0.75 lb LME
 
Thanks for the advice. I was going to give it one last try to search for a cheap pot today. I do have two 5ish gallon pots and was thinking of dividing up the grains and doing two half brews at the same time but it is more work than it should be. The other option I was thinking was adding water to the fermenter but I didn't know by doing that it wouldn't be as 'potent'. Despite the extra work I think I'll do the two pot at the same time.

All the grains are mixed together. The only reason they're in two separate bags is just due to the size of the bags and the quantity of grains.
 
Despite not having a large enough pot, all is not lost. What you can do is buy dry malt extract in substitution for the base grain (it's a whitish powder that gets very sticky when moist). I assume the base grain and specialty grain are still separated? When using this extract you can do something called a 'partial boil'. In other words, you can boil the extract, steep your specialty grains and add your hops into a smaller quantity of water than your target volume. Once the process is complete (you pretty much follow the same process I outlined before with the exception that you'd break the extract into two lots - one (smaller portion) that you'd boil for 60 minutes, and the other (larger portion) you'd add late - say around 5-10 mins left in the boil). Once you've finished the process and you transfer it all to your fermenter you can then 'top off' with water (preferaby previously boiled for sterilization and then cooled) to reach your target volume. Adding this cold water at the end to the fermenter will also help bring you down to pitching temperature more quickly. Ideally you want to boil as much of your total volume as possible, but I'd guesstimate that with a 5 gallon pot you'd probably want to start with 3-3.5 gallons of water in the pot. With extract you still need to watch out for boil-overs.

I'd be very disappointed with the person that sold this kit to you. If you were standing there talking to them while you were choosing the kit and they were milling the grains etc., they could have easily found out that you've never done this before and perhaps didn't have all the necessary equipment. I know, at least, that if I was selling a kit like this, I'd want to make sure my customer had every chance of being successful or they might not come back. This is not to say there's anything wrong with the kit, but All-Grain kits are really designed for people that at least have certain equipment profile and, better yet, have at least some experience using extract (a simpler introduction to brewing). The salesman should have picked up on this.

Last, since your grains are already milled, their 'best before' date has advanced significantly - probably to about a few months. If you don't foresee using them within that time then I recommend you sell/donate them to someone that can. In the mean-time, the yeast can go in the fridge (not the freezer), and the hops can go in the freezer.


Edit: Chickypad's advice to do two half batches is a good option that I didn't think of. If it were me I'd follow that advice.
 
What I've done before with too small a pot (and BIAB) was fill the mash kettle all the way to the top. Mash as usual. Pull the bag out and squeeze the heck out of it.

Put the squeezed bag of grain in a 5 gallon bucket and add a couple of more gallons of 170° water. Stir for about 5 minutes, pull the bag out, and squeeze it again.

I put the 2nd runnings in another smaller kettle -- my biggest stockpot -- on high heat and boiled it down (I tossed in a few hop pellets.) Meanwhile I brought the big kettle slowly to a boil.

Very carefully I boiled the big kettle (cuz it was still kind of full) and as it boiled down I topped it up from the small kettle. It all fit by the end.

Then I went out and bought an 8 gallon kettle; my friends say I should have got a 10.
 
Thanks again for all the advice - super useful!

The salesman did know this was my first brew but it never went beyond that. Again - could be another reason why they went out of business.

I have a 60 liter converted keg for boiling but it's been in storage since I moved (some 600 km away). Will get it eventually.

I've done other non beer recipes split between the two pots I have so I'm going to try the two half batch option at the same time and follow Andy's steps from the first page.

Just have a new faucet to install and will get to it. Will give news once everything is in the fermenter.

Thanks again!
 
Sounds good, lots of ways to go really. One suggestion, if the kit came with those strechy muslin bags I would go get a couple 5 gal nylon paint strainer bags (can usually get a pack of two for a few bucks at Lowe's or HD). You want the grains to be really loose in the bags so they can be in complete contact with the mash water. Just a slight correction on andy's terminology FYI, this is still a mash you're just using a bag instead of a traditional mash tun. Another option when mashing in smaller pots is to use your oven to hold the temp. I preheat to the lowest setting (170* on mine) then turn it off when I'm getting ready to stir in my grains. Pop the pot in the oven after very thourough mixing and it holds temp great.
Have fun!
:mug:
 
I suggest you use these online instructions as a reference in case I've led you astray:

http://homebrewmanual.com/brew-in-a-bag/

Last, I'll just add - if your first beer doesn't turn out to be so wonderfully great that it glows an aura and you want to marry it, don't worry, you'll get better with practice.
 
I suggest you look up proper instructions for BIAB brewing - they should be available in this forum somewhere. I think I left out a stage called 'sparging' which I didn't think is done in BIAB methods... but I think it is. Sorry, I've not done it BIAB before.]

It's actually more common to sparge with a traditional mash tun set up than with BIAB, but you can sparge with either method or you can do a full volume mash with either. The decision is usually dependent on pot size for the BIAB'ers
 
If your grains are already crushed and mixed you could make two 2.5 gallon batches instead of one 5 gallon. Your equipment might be able to handle this easier.

Another plus. Make the 2.5 gallons. Hold on to the remaining stuff until you've had a chance to sample batch one, six weeks or so. Wrap the unused grain in something to minimize air exposure and keep it somewhere dark and cool. Put the left over hops in the freezer. If batch one is good just repeat the process. If something is off you can figure it out then make batch two. You will need a second pack of yeast though.

Perhaps if you let us know where you are some kind soul could get together with you and help you figure this out.

All the Best,
D. White
 
Merry Christmas!

Well, I didn't get to brewing til yesterday morning. Ended up making two half batches and combining the two into one fermenter afterward. Absolutely super simple thanks to all the advice and it seemed to have gone pretty well except...

The airlock was bubbling quite fast for a day and a half or less and is now almost at a standstill. There's the occasional bubble but it seems quite dead now. Any advice? I think this may be the first time where I've had the yeast take off so fast and just stop shortly after. Is it the yeast? Could it be a lack of sugar?

Also - I should have listened to my lady's advice when she told me to open my Christmas gift early. It was a large brew pot with thermometer and valve. Would have made things quite a bit easier!
 
It's likely just that a good portion of the fermentation is done. Were you fermenting warm? Leave it be and check a gravity in a week or two when it's cleared. Enjoy your new gear!
 
Is it normal for fermentation to be over so fast with beer? Most of the non beer stuff I brew tends to take a week or so. A day and a bit seems kinda fast, no?

And thanks - Already have a recipe planned for the new equipment!
 
The visible part of fermentation can be done in a day or two, especially if you fermented Notty fairly warm (bubbling is not the most accurate indicator). Do you have temp control? At any rate there is likely still stuff going on - the yeast need to finish and clean up some so just leave it be for a little while.
:mug:
 
Vigorous fermentation for a short period - such as a day or two, followed by what appears to be almost dropping off a cliff is perfectly normal. However, fermentation is not yet done. Most of the sugars have been converted, and your gravity will have dropped by the bulk but it'll take a while yet for the yeast to eat the remaining gravity points and then clean up after itself. At this stage patience is a virtue. You'll do yourself a solid by not even thinking about bottling for at least 2 weeks after brewing and preferably 3 weeks. During this time you should also resist the temptation to open the lid and peek at it. While most of the time you won't have harmed it, you're doing little but increasing your chances of infection or oxidization.

How you proceed after the 2-3 weeks are up is entirely up to you and you'll get conflicting advice from people in these forums.

Your first choice is either to 'secondary' or not to 'secondary'. This means whether or not you want to rack the beer to a different vessel (a secondary vessel). Personally I do like to secondary, but a little more than the majority here would suggest skipping that stage. I like to secondary because, for me, it significantly reduces the amount of trub (gunk in the bottom of the fermenter) and yeast debris that I'll end up with in the bottling bucket. These in turn tend to get into my bottles and I'm more likely to get beers that gush out when I pour them. Perhaps it also 'clears' the beer a bit more than if I didn't. Others here tell me it's all in my head, that they get perfectly clear beer without doing a 'secondary' and that doing a secondary only increases the chances of oxidization (exposing the beer to enough oxygen reportedly makes it taste like wet cardboard) and infection. Some have even posted pictures of their gloriously clear beer without having used a secondary in order to show that it is an unnecessary and potentially harmful step.

Even though there are arguments for and against using a secondary, I would ask yourself the following: does this beer contain a lot of hops - in your case no it doesn't (2 oz is a very low amount compared to some imperial IPAs that might take 15-20 ounces. This means that there really isn't a lot of hops to get into you bottling bucket anyways. Second question you might want to ask yourself is... what's my set up like for getting the beer out of the fermenter and into the keg or bottling bucket? If you have to move the fermenter and inevitably jostle it around a bit, then this will stir up the gunk on the bottom. The more it gets stirred up, the more some is likely to get into your bottling bucket. If, on the other hand, the fermenter is in a fixed place and you can simply take off the lid and stick your racking cane or siphon in the top, then you won't likely stir up much and therefore using a secondary is less worth while. It's entirely up to you. In my cases I usually have more hops, and my set up requires that I lug the fermenter around before racking, hence using a secondary is worthwhile for me.

2) Do you have the set-up capacity to cold crash your fermenter? This means that you have an extra fridge that you can stick the fermenter into for a few days and get that sucker close to zero celsius. If you can do this, then do it. It will clear the beer wonderfully and compress that gunk to the bottom. If you can't do it... don't stress it - your beer will probably be not as clear but the taste is completely unaffected. Understandably, most new brewers don't have spare refrigerators lying around.


Once you decide on these, and by all means read the forums for advice on helping you make a decision... and once the 2-3 weeks are up, either transfer and/or cold-crash... or get ready for bottling day.

Last, glad to hear the brew day went smoothly. My first one did too, but I made a major screw up on bottling day that resulted in having to dump my first batch. Hopefully your first one turns out great!
 
Thanks for all the advice again! And happy new year to all.

I have several other non beer brews going on and forgot I added a yeast energizer to the beer which maybe have been why it was going so strong the first day or so. I've left it as is and haven't opened it. Will most likely leave it for another week before I check in on it. I do see the airlock bubble from time to time (last I saw it was yesterday) so it's still going.

I basically just have to lift the fermenter onto a table so for moving it's not too bad. I usually do it (carefully) a day or two before and let it sit on the table to settle.

I think for this batch I'll skip the cold crashing just to see the results. And also to cut down on the waiting.

Will let you all know how it went.

Thanks again for all the great advice!
 
Just to follow up - I find it annoying when threads aren't concluded.

I left the beer in the fermenter for 13 days in all. Primed and bottled it and left for a week before we started drinking it.

Either way, the beer turned out great and it didn't last more than a week and a half before it was all gone. I have two batches going on now (a stout and a habanero pale ale). Had the same situation with the stout where it was quite active for the first day and then nearly at a standstill since then so well see how that turns out also.

Thanks for all the help.
 
Thanks for following up! I am the same, let people know what happened.

There are enough nutrients in beer wort for your yeast. No yeast nutrient
should ever be required.

Glad this worked out for you. I think splitting the ingredients into two batches
was the best choice. I was going to suggest though doing one batch. See how
things worked out. Then do the other batch in case the first one was bad.

Good luck and keep brewing.

I've done lots of mead and wine but find beer much more satisfying as a hobby.

All the Best,
D. White
 

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