I feel like a complete idiot for using pretty much

[bob1852]

That figure is probably arrived at using the Bobby_M method, there not only all water used in growing and malting the grain is figured in, but also the soda the guy driving the tractor drank.

From teh article...

Nevertheless, with 98% of that pilsner's or lager's water footprint occurring before the brewing process begins, sustainability experts and community activists are urging beer companies to lean on their agricultural suppliers to reduce water consumption.

So yes, they included irrigation water, etc.

 

[Stauffbier]

I also do the ice water/pond pump thing. As others have mentioned, I collect the first 10 gallons of hot water for cleaning brew equipment, and I even use the cold ice water that's left after chilling for my swamp cooler. I dilute it with tap water to get the water in my swamp cooler to about 62F. This way it's ready for the fermenter immidiately without the need for frozen water bottles. Between the first 10 gallons of hot water and the ice water I use the warm(ish) water to water the flower beds. With this said, I don't look at any of my water for chilling as wasted...

 

[chessking]

So, looking at the Aussie method of doing this, anyone see any problems with me using a keg to do the 'no chill' method? The only issue I think I might run into is that the keg is 7.5 gallons and I would be putting 7 gallons into it, leaving a bit of headspace (read: oxygen). I am thinking that the still incredibly hot wort will sterilize everything in the keg, I can then toss it in the empty kegerator after it has cooled a bit as to not damage the kegerator. That will let me start my fermentation kinda low and let it rise naturally during fermentation, rack it into the 7.5 gallon bucket to clean the trub out of the keg, then rack it right back into the keg, drop a hop bag in there and hook up the co2. I suppose tossing in the prescribed amount of priming sugar and seal up the keg, leaving it out of the kegerator for another few days or so then cold crash it. Any thoughts on this? Any obvious flaws that you see? If I should have made mah own thread, lemme know. It seemed to go with the theme here since the Aussie no chill method had a nice foothold. Thanks!

I'm not a no chill guy, but from what Ive read your method would probably work, hot side aeration and sanitation issues aside. One thing though, when using a jerry can to cool overnight (or more), you would then transfer to a fermenter, giving you the opportunity to oxygenate the cooled wort as well as separate it from the trub and break material prior to fermentation. If you left it, per your method, in the Cooling vessel for fermentation, the trub would remain (not a really big deal), and you would need to seriously oxygenate the wort. If you are planning to transfer to a bucket after fermentation, and then back to the keg, why not do that before fermentation for the previously stated reasons and let it ferment in the bucket? Like I said, I'm not a no chill guy, so I would submit to the experience of those in the know.

 

[unfairbeef]

That is a good point about transferring it to get it off the trub but my main reason for wanting to let it ride in the keg is that I need all the other vessels for other brews. I will have the bucket available for a day or two so I could get the brew off the trub but it would need to go back to the keg. I think I have a gameplan at this point. Thanks!

 

[bottlebomber]

From teh article...

So yes, they included irrigation water, etc.

Rightly so, I was just being an arse. It's not far fetched to add the irrigation water into the total needed to bring a pint of beer to the glass.

 

[onthekeg]

That should work just fine unfairbeer.
Just keep the keg away from your legs when its hot.

 

[OldBunny]

Calm down tiger, you're overreacting. It was all in good humor. My comment was based on input I've seen from you on "real cost of brewing" threads where you insisted that every factor from actual direct costs to even a portioned amount of rent/mortgage needed to be figured in as well as all time spent. Nothing wrong with that, but after a couple of these you start making a name for yourself. I'm not the only person who's noticed, surely. I'm sorry if I spoiled the fun. No hard feeling right?

This is an all too common tactic I've seen from a number of my activist friends (I consider myself an environmentalist of sorts, but they're way beyond me). It consists of a tendency to allocate sunk costs to incremental activities. My mortgage is a given; I've got to pay it whether or not I'm brewing. My water bill is a fixed amount per quarter, and the effluent goes right back into the the lake from which my water is drawn (via the septic tank). The lights in my brew shop would be on in another room if I weren't brewing.

The impact of 100l of water for cooling has to be considered in relation to all your other water use -- even if you limit "water use" to your brewing activities. How much water do you use to clean the crud out of your fermenter? How much to wash and sanitize your bottles? To mix your sanitizer?

How much energy was consumed freezing and transporting the bag(s) of ice that you use to chill your wort? How much energy will some sort of electric chiller use?

TANSTAAFL!

Unless you live in a place where water shortages are common, I wouldn't worry too much about your cooling water. If you do, I'd take a take a serious look at the Aussie no-chill method. Anything else is just shuffling the problem from here to there.

 

[ChuckO]

Rightly so, I was just being an arse. It's not far fetched to add the irrigation water into the total needed to bring a pint of beer to the glass.

Do they also include the water needed in the manufacture of the tractor?

Or the water used to bathe the farmer since he was born?

It's not a valid argument to include the resources needed for one pre-processing step without including them for all pre-processing steps.

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

So, looking at the Aussie method of doing this, anyone see any problems with me using a keg to do the 'no chill' method? The only issue I think I might run into is that the keg is 7.5 gallons and I would be putting 7 gallons into it, leaving a bit of headspace (read: oxygen). I am thinking that the still incredibly hot wort will sterilize everything in the keg, I can then toss it in the empty kegerator after it has cooled a bit as to not damage the kegerator. That will let me start my fermentation kinda low and let it rise naturally during fermentation, rack it into the 7.5 gallon bucket to clean the trub out of the keg, then rack it right back into the keg, drop a hop bag in there and hook up the co2. I suppose tossing in the prescribed amount of priming sugar and seal up the keg, leaving it out of the kegerator for another few days or so then cold crash it. Any thoughts on this? Any obvious flaws that you see? If I should have made mah own thread, lemme know. It seemed to go with the theme here since the Aussie no chill method had a nice foothold. Thanks!

Nice thinking. When I get my lager chiller up and running with my corny keg, I'm going to use this approach. It makes a lot of sense.

With regard to head space, you could purge it with a healthy dose of CO2.

 

[wubears71]

100L of water through an immersion chiller and down my drain.

I want to buy a therminator type chiller. Any suggestions? I want something that I can clean and inspect to assure 100% sanitation.

May I suggest a Therminator... It's a great chiller.

 

[Airborneguy]

Nothing wrong with that, but after a couple of these you start making a name for yourself.

We haven't had a good cost argument in awhile. :rockin:

I use a hybrid cooling regimen now that I'm brewing outside, and even this is likely to change in the winter. I use a pond pump to push water from a bucket that I get from my hose. It empties into another bucket and I reuse it to wash clothes. Somewhere around 100f, I transfer to my fermenting bucket and put the bucket in my fermentation freezer with a controller set at 32f. Most days, I can pitch about 6-8 hours later.

Before this method, I did a straight recirculating routine using ice water once the wort was around 140f. I would freeze Tupperwares of water instead of using bags of ice. I just feel like a huge chunk last longer (I'm sure Malfet can prove in wrong ). Again, all waste went right into the washer machine.

And FYI, politics has nothing to do with this. Me thinks the OP was just looking for an opening to bash America.

 

[Airborneguy]

This is an all too common tactic I've seen from a number of my activist friends...

There's been some epic battles over this topic here. What always gets me is the same people who are willing to add ridiculous costs going back 20 years to a batch of beer made at home will add nothing to the costs of buying beer: gas, car maintanence, road taxes, insurance, clothing that must be worn to be in public, a share of medical insurance just in case something happens in the store, lost wages (even when one has a salaried job), etc etc etc into infinity. Talk about making the argument fit ones opinion.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Stay on topic, sparky.

"I want to buy a therminator type chiller. Any suggestions?"

Don't be a an ass, he answered your question.

As for plain old home brew grade plate chillers, like the Therminator, there are none off the shelf available that open up for inspection. They are all brazed and the only be damned certain way to keep them clean is by using caustics.

I use an Acid cleaner on mine.

there are, however, custom fabricated plate and frame chillers (like those used in breweries and mechanical plants, with plates and gaskets) for a price. An estimate given to me for a product near equal in specs to the Therminator came in at $1000.00usd.

 

[bottlebomber]

We haven't had a good cost argument in awhile. :rockin:

I wanted to start playing guitar again until I found out I can't afford to. By the time I calculate charging myself $40 an hour for time spent, it would work out to be almost as much as my mortgage

 

[MalFet]

A counter flow chiller is much more efficient than an immersion chiller

Not necessarily. The output on my immersion chiller is never more than 5ºF above my wort temp, and my hard limiting factor is actually the rate at which water flows out of my tap. Switching to a counterflow or plate chiller would be neither faster nor would it use less water.


Edit: whoa...did I just imagine that post or something?

 

[stlbeer]

Not necessarily. The output on my immersion chiller is never more than 5ºF above my wort temp, and my hard limiting factor is actually the rate at which water flows out of my tap. Switching to a counterflow or plate chiller would be neither faster nor would it use less water.


Edit: whoa...did I just imagine that post or something?

I noticed the thread was becoming something more than a discussion on the efficiencies of various cooling methods so I deleted the post.

 

[Whiskey]

I dump the first 7-9ish gallons of "hot" water from my IC into a cooler for washing dirty parts. The rest goes down the drain, which then gets processed back into the water I just used. I also have an inline chiller, which is just a 5g bucket that I installed a 1/2 IC in, that I fill with Ice, salt and water. Works like a champ, I'm just too cheap to buy a counterflow or plate chiller.