I burnt and melted my 3 piece ball valve w/pics

[discooby]

wtf is that!?!

I did my very first AG 10 gallon batch a few days ago and this is what happened: I bought a Bayou Classic KAB4 to get my boil going fast… and it worked… it worked too well and caused a “stuck spigot” when trying to empty from the boil kettle to my carboys. That black stuff is melted sugar from the wort… plus melted plastic from inside the 3 piece ball valve.


(you can see the distance from the edge of the pot to the edge of the burner by looking at the right leg of the burner… fair to assume this plus an inch above the bottom of the kettle would be safe from heat???...NOPE!)

I thought the ball valve on the kettle was far enough away from the flame/heat and I have never heard of something like this before on HBT so I never thought to be aware of it until I noticed this during the boil (hence the foil above)…



The rubber on the spigot handle started melting! I tried to make a heat block using foil which didn’t work. At this point I should also mention that there was a small leak coming from the hose barb (spigot), not the threads, but after a minute it stopped… I assume from the melting bushing inside (see below) … the sugars melted/caramelized around it, stopping the flow.

Since I had 13 gallons and the boil was just beginning, and since the silicon gasket looked fine (this version goes on the outside of the kettle btw) I figured I could live with the melted rubber on the handle, continue with the brewers protocol: RDWHAHB and keep brewing (I didn’t HAHB as I like to focus on the task at hand but I did RDW).

After cooling, I tried to use the spigot/ball-valve to empty into my carboys but only a trickle was coming out. Dumbfounded, I resorted to the trusty Auto-Siphon and saved my 10gal.

Upon taking apart the 3 piece ball valve



I discovered the burnt sugar throughout the unit…

 

[discooby]

And the melted plastic “bushing” if you will







And a pic of the bulkhead on the BK and melted rubber on the handle…

 

[discooby]

I guess I need to make some sort of firewall on the bottom of the kettle just under the spigot… maybe use a piece of sheet metal?? But, then again, could this have been caused by conduction (as far as the burnt sugar inside the unit)? Anyone else have/had this problem and found a solution? Any suggestions?

Btw, this is my third AG attempt; 1st 10 gal AG attempt.

 

[JuanMoore]

Do you have a diptube on the inside? If so did you drain any liquid through to purge the air before you started heating? With liquid inside the valve it should stay cool enough to prevent melting even with direct heat. If the valve/diptube is full of air then it can easily get hot enough to melt things.

 

[discooby]

Yes; I neglected to mention that in my post. I do have a dip tube (pointed down and to the inside wall of the BK.)



I did draw off a sample for a pre-boil gravity check so there was no air in the unit.

At first I thought this was the cause; by not leaving air in the ball valve, bulkhead and dip tube (introducing wort into the unit), that wort heated up and turned to burnt sugar melting the plastic bushing. But then I thought if I had left air in the dip tube, bulkhead, and ball valve, as the air heated up during the boil it would have expanded and escaped anyway being replaced by wort…??

After inspecting the bulkhead and dip tube that are inside the BK, they are both clean and clear of any debris; it is only the outside (of the BK) parts of the unit that are full of burnt sugar wort.

 

[passedpawn]

I'm guessing a soup/veggies can and a pair of tin snips will make a decent heat guard. I think I've seen that on here somewhere.

Can you buy replacement parts for those 3-piece valves? Nice how they come apart like that.

 

[JKoravos]

Electric FTW!

 

[Shockerengr]

when I first tested my single tier, I melted a couple of ball valves (thankfully cheap brass ones) ... I ended up welding some sheet metal to the side where the ball valve was to deflect the heat plume / exhaust gasses away. haven't had a problem since...and my hands stay a lot cooler when connecting things up with the burners on.

 

[Landshark67]

Try adding a 4 in ss threaded extender. It will help disperse heat. Not sure a heat shield will do it. The Bayou classic throws huge BTUs. Back that sucker down a bit. :rockin:

 

[BargainFittings]

That size burner is a monster.

I have one myself and I used a piece of tin can to make shield. I just tuck it under the side of the valve kit, sight gauges or thermometers to keep flame and heat wash off them.

I've tried on more than one occasion to source the replacement gaskets for these 3 piece valves but vendors are not interested in supplying them. They would rather sell valves.

Wayne

 

[Bobby_M]

A heat shield is all you need. It cuts the heat directly above it by over 100F. Also, turn your flame down. All that heat washing around the sides is heating up the neighborhood and not your water/wort.

You can rip the vinyl wrap off the handle and slide a piece of silicone tubing on.

 

[Slipgate]

I'd probably put the heat shield on the burner and not the pot. fashion it so the flame/heat is about 1" inside the bottom of the pot. I have the same problem as you with my high output stove burner. The flame front is large and wicks up the side of the pots. It even heats up the on/off knob.

 

[discooby]

I'm guessing a soup/veggies can and a pair of tin snips will make a decent heat guard. I think I've seen that on here somewhere.

Can you buy replacement parts for those 3-piece valves? Nice how they come apart like that.

Good call, and thanks for all the reply’s! I think a big vegi can is in order; will post pics in a month or two when I do the 10 gal dunkel (Edcculus)

 

[discooby]

That size burner is a monster.

I have one myself and I used a piece of tin can to make shield. I just tuck it under the side of the valve kit, sight gauges or thermometers to keep flame and heat wash off them.

I've tried on more than one occasion to source the replacement gaskets for these 3 piece valves but vendors are not interested in supplying them. They would rather sell valves.

Wayne

+1 for this vendor!

Thanks for the quick e-mail reply; awesome vendor!

I found online retailers for the gaskets but prices are???

It’s a rookie mistake, and wouldn’t mind being a poster child for others. As crazy as those gaskets look, I actually think it might still seal so… I’m debating on risking a catastrophic failure over spending “ … “ for a new one; being a stickler for waste, it just sucks to loose a whole SS 3-piece because of gasket failure. But, lesson learned and life goes on. Thanks again for the replys!

 

[discooby]

A heat shield is all you need. It cuts the heat directly above it by over 100F. Also, turn your flame down. All that heat washing around the sides is heating up the neighborhood and not your water/wort.

You can rip the vinyl wrap off the handle and slide a piece of silicone tubing on.

Great point; there’s a word for it… it’s not meeting equilibrium w/nature (you can hang it, but can you use it and will it fit?!?... I digress) …a medium point of btu’s vs. environment vs. pot… vs….

Too little, not enough; too much and your heating Vegas another 2 degrees during the summer… and 118* is just tooooo much!

btw, is FTW here F**K The World or For the Win?!?

 

[shemp]

I'm wondering if I damaged my valve. I have the black gunk like these pictures but no signs of deformation on the plastic seals. I spent an hour cleaning and then, after brewing again, found the valve in the same condition. Is this gunk normal? I'm guessing it's burnt wort. I am about to brew and will try a third time, this time using a large heat shield and wrapping with a wet towel. I have it mounted on a keggle and am using the same burner with natural gas.

 

[TX_Brewing]

I would think there is a very good chance this kit might work for you.

http://shop.greatfermentations.com/...cement-parts?gclid=CNCJ2qHF78YCFQiTaQod2y4K7Q

I think the blichmann stuff is just re-branded when it comes to the ball valves.

 

[JF_HBrews]

Dragging this up again.

So, I just had this exact scenario happen to me as well. I went from using a generic turkey fryer type burner to a nice Blichmann burner. My ball valve got totally closed or blocked with caramelized wort. I also use a dip tube. I tried purging or letting out liquid from the valve many times during a boil but that wasn't enough. I backed the heat down to just barely keep a boil but still too hot at the valve. I have not tried a heat shield yet.

My solution was to put a piece of silicon tubing on the ball valve outlet and run the tube up and over the rim of my kettle. It was crazy that the wort would self circulate through he valve and tube back into the kettle throughout the, minimized, boil. But, at least I could run the wort off through the ball valve and then through my chiller after the boil.

I have a short and fat pot, not a tall smaller diameter one, so I was surprised to get that kind of heat out at the ball valve by switching to a 'better' burner.

 

[Firewalker11]

Wayne,

With your prices, it would be hard to beat iBrews price plus shipping to the USA. I have a section on PTFE rod that I made a pair of seats from last year after I lost the ones that came with my valve (please don't ask) but It took me too much time on the lathe to spin them perfectly.

My advice for anybody that does this, buy another from Wayne. Hmm, maybe 2?

 

[FloppyKnockers]

btw, is FTW here F**K The World or For the Win?!?

Depends on who's saying it and when, but right now in this context it's 'for the win'.

As far as your handle goes, Plastidip FTW unless you spill it on the carpet, then FTW.