I brewed an experimental recipe a few weeks ago...

[BrewnWKopperKat]

What does YOS mean?

Yeast Oxygen Scavenging.

background: There are a couple of simple techniques for minimizing HSA (hot side aeration). Yeast Oxygen Scavenging (YOS) is one of them. In summary, there are two approaches; both use 2g bread yeast and 2 g sugar per gallon of water. 1st approach is overnight at room temperature. 2nd approach is heat the water to 90F, add the yeast/sugar, and hold for 30 minutes.

Does it matter with DME? I'll know more in 9 to 12 months of brewing.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

don't overlook "Experimental Homebrewing" going online (below)

Recipe/process for the batch in #170/#172

I'm closing out the bottling experiments, perhaps a little early.

I was curious about the variation in the anecdotal stories that have been reported when using individual techniques. Without being able to measure the quality of the wort during the process, it's hard to know if (or where) the wort was damaged.

So rather than tring the many combinations of one or two ingredients/techniques, I added the easy techniques I could find: YOS, Brewtan-B, mash cap (especially while heating to boil), gentle stirring & transfers, fast bottle carbonation with fresh yeast and ascorbic acid, cold storage of the bottles).

End result: better beer. And with the first couple of batches, more consistent beer.

Can the list be simplified?

Since most of the techniques take little (or no) additional time, my desire to experiment more is waning rapidly.

---

Looks like the book Experimental Homebrewing is going online over the next year (with annotations).

Authors’ Note: Way back in the Spring of 2013, we were approached to write a book titled Experimental Homebrewing that would “Out Randy” Randy Mosher and his wonderfully crazy Radical Brewing. Drew teamed up with Denny to write this book and together we quickly decided that it was a practical impossibility to achieve that goal. Instead, we pivoted to focus on the word “Experimental” and what it means. Drew was the outlandish one; Denny, the practical digger of how things worked in his brewery and for his tastes. It took us over a year and three editors to pull this book together. (Many thanks to Thom O’Hearn for dragging us across the finish line!)

Experimental Homebrewing is now approaching a decade old and is out of print, we’ve decided to bring the book online over the course of the year. Please note: you can still find used or never sold copies of the book (We’re still partial to having a physical book in hand for practical purposes!)

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

For those who take hydrometer samples and have the ability to force carbonate, check out episode 194 of "Experimental Brewing" starting at about 35:00.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Chinook/Citra Hop Steep (175F) 3.0 gal (end of boil) OG 59; FG 11 3# Muntons Extra Light DME; 1# sugar 28g cryo Citra (25 AA); 112g Citra (12.5 AA) 56g Chinook (13.7 AA) 2g CaCl; 1 g CaS04; 0.3g NaCl; 0.3g BewTan-B 1/2 sachet WLP066 dry YOS (2g/gal bread yeast/sugar; 30 min @ 90F) 'mash cap' add minerals after YOS, heat to 185F add ingredients (wort temp dropped to 175F) hold for 30 minutes (wort temp ends at 170F) chill rapidly ferment at ~ 67F when FG is stable bottle condition at 75F for about a week, then chill/enjoy I dosed individual bottles with 2.4 g sugar 'smidgem' (measuring spoon) CBC-1 'dash' (measuring spoon) ascorbic acid

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

This is mostly an 'experience report' for those who are taking a single hydrometer sample early in the fermentation process (link). I've used it successfully in a number of recent batches, but ...

Bitter (inspired by a Brewing Classic Styles recipe)

• OG 46; FG 12; IBU 33; SRM 11; ABV 4.6
• 35 min boil; ~ 2.75 gal (end of boil); 24 pack (after packaging)

Ingredients

• 3# Muntons Light DME /1/
• 4 oz English Light Crystal; 2 oz English Medium Crystal; 4 oz Simpson DRC
• 28 g Golding (5.7AA) @ 30, 14 g Golding @ 15, 14 g Golding @ 0
• 1/2 sachet Lallemand Verdant @ 67F
• 1 g CaSo4; 1 g MgS04; 1 g NaCl; 0.3 g BrewTan-B /1/

Process

• Heat 3.0 gal water to 90°F
• YOS (2 g / gal sugar & bread yeast at 90°F for 30 min) /2/
• Remove 2 qt water to cold steep grains while heating kettle water to 180°F
• in kettle, add minerals and Brewtan-B, heat to 180°
• when kettle water is around 180°, gently add steeped-grain wort and DME /3/
• bring to boil. boil for 35 min with first hop addition @ 30

Notes

• took hydrometer sample one day after pitching yeast (link)
• measured SG a number of times from the hydrometer tube
• FG seemed to have stalled at SG 16 after 7 days
• took an fresh hydrometer sample on day 10 - it was at SG 12

Observation

• be cautious about using this technique (link) as a "poor persons" Tilt.
• next time I may use two hydrometer sample tubes

Footnotes

1. With Briess DME, I use a very different set of flavor salt additions.
2. YOS also has an 'overnight' option.
3. for me, Muntons DME mostly disolves before reaching the bottom of the kettle. With a gentle stir and a 'feel' across the bottom of the kettle using a mash paddle, I can confirm that nothing is stuck on the bottom

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Interesting observation, @BrewnWKopperKat! I'm trying to think of a reason for the difference, but all I've got is "maybe the bigger mass in the fermenter generated enough heat to keep going, and the test-tube did not"...

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

a reason for the difference,

With my previous batches, I took one or two measurements at the end of the fermentation - and the hydrometer sample matched the sample from the fermenter.

With this latest batch, I took a number of samples during fermentation (aka "poor persons" Tilt). It's possible that my approach for cleaning the side of the hydrometer removed enough yeast to cause fermentation to finish early. So maybe (no promises) next time, I'll use two hydrometer sample tubes to measure SG both early and late.

Overall, I feel the technique works - take a sample early and wait for fermentation to finish before taking the first measurement. Additional measurements during active fermentation may cause problems.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Another 'experience report' for those who are taking a single hydrometer sample early in the fermentation process (link).

For this batch (brewed on the 17th, I used one the "Chico" dry strains) I took the hydrometer sample about 4 hours after pitching the yeast. In the past, I've waited roughly a day to see active fermentation before taking a sample.

For whatever reason(s), the hydrometer sample seems to be about a day behind the main fermentation. Earlier today, the foam dropped in the fermenter, but the hydrometer sample is still fermenting. I'll wait for the hydrometer sample to stop fermenting (probably tomorrow) before taking the 1st FG measurement.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Back in March, I brewed a

Bitter (inspired by a Brewing Classic Styles recipe)

which was also a "split" bottle conditioning 'experiment': some bottles conditioned using CBC-1 and some used EC-1118. This evening, I sampled a pair (not blind) side-by-side.

FWIW, with the "Bitter" recipe, I had a preference for the bottle that used CBC-1.

My guess is that with an IPA-ish recipe, I would not have noticed a difference.

aside: I recently got a good deal on 5 sachets of 'past best by date' CBC-1 that ended up being well within the 'best by date'. Since I'm getting good results with CBC-1 at a price I'm willing to pay, I'm likely to 'pause' on any additional CBC-1 vs EC-1118 'experiments'. I'm still a "fan" of adding some type of bottle conditioning yeast - so maybe there's some 'side-by-side' bottling experiments using CBC-1 vs the fermentation strain (e.g. US-05, Nottingham, ...).

 

[CascadesBrewer]

which was also a "split" bottle conditioning 'experiment': some bottles conditioned using CBC-1 and some used EC-1118. This evening, I sampled a pair (not blind) side-by-side.

How would you describe the difference?

I have been a bit curious about using EC-1118. I like that it comes in 5g packs and only costs $1.60 at my local shop (likely $1 online). That way, I would be fine using a partial pack and tossing the rest. I have been using CBC-1 anytime I bottle a higher ABV beer, which tends to be just a few times a year. I have been having good luck just using a partial pack of CBC-1, sealing it back up with a clip, and using up the pack over 1-2 years.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

How would you describe the difference?

Using "harsh" on a scale from 0 to 5, the bottle with CBC-1 was zero, with EC-1118 was one. So not a lot of difference. Both bottles had the spice / herbal flavors typical of Golding hops.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

@Hoochin'Fool : as I was cleaning the bottom my hydrometer sample tube (see #170 & 171 above), late this afternoon, I started to wonder if it would work to save that amount of yeast and re-pitch it in an upcoming batch. I didn't save the yeast (this time). Thoughts?

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

@Hoochin'Fool : as I was cleaning the bottom my hydrometer sample tube (see #170 & 171 above), late this afternoon, I started to wonder if it would work to save that amount of yeast and re-pitch it in an upcoming batch. I didn't save the yeast (this time). Thoughts?

I've re-used the hydrometer yeast/sludge (from an S-04, 1.056 amber ale) once to ferment a gallon of apple cider, about 7 weeks ago, I think. Turned out fine. Haven't tried it again yet, but I've been fermenting some over-the-top imperial stouts lately, so I figured that yeast might be too abused or worn out, to reuse.

But I've got a hydro yeast/sludge sample from this https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/hazy-cheapskate-miraculix-forbidden-ale.710855/ beer that I was just thinking about doing something with. It's still pretty cloudy tho, so probably another week or two.

EDITED to add:

What I did to re-use the sample: dumped out the beer. The sludge didn't want to come out, so I poured some apple juice into the tube, shook the hell out of it, and poured it all into the fermenter.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Pale Ale (split fermentation)

• OG 56; FG 10 - 12; IBU 50; SRM 7-sh; ABV 5.8
• 25 min boil; ~ 2.75 gal (end of boil); roughly two 12 packs

Ingredients:

• 2# Pale Ale DME; 1# Wheat DME; 0.5# sugar
• 21g Magnum (16.5) @ 20; 28g Cascase @ 5
• split fermentation: US-05; BRY-97; sprinkled on top
• bread yeast (YOS), BrewTan-B, Irish Moss, beer yeast nutrient

Process:

• YOS: 2g / gal; 20 min; room temp (70F) /1/
• 0.1g / gal Brewtan-B; heat to around 180F
• turn off heat; add sugar, then DME; bring to boil
• add hops (@20, @5); rehydrated Irish Moss @10 /2/
• pitch yeast @ 65F, add yeast nutrient

I normally do not have wheat DME on hand, but needed about 1.5# of wheat DME for a Brown Ale I'm converting from "all-grain". This recipe helps me use up the rest of the DME promptly.

After roughly 2 weeks fermenting at around 65F, BRY-97 appears to be done & US-05 is "almost" there.

----------

/1/ bringing the water to a boil, then adding the DME with heat off, is an alternative.
/2/ I want to do this a couple more times before (maybe) talking about it.

 

[ncbrewer]

That's an interesting recipe. I hope you'll post how it comes out.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I hope you'll post how it comes out.

It will probably be a 4 to 5 weeks before sampling 1st bottles.

The BRY-97 batch is done; the US-05 batch is almost done.

I'm using the approach in #170/#171 to take multiple FG reading. (I may re-pitch the yeast at the bottom of the tube into a couple of 0.75 gal "hop sampler"-ish batches).

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

@BrewnWKopperKat I'm intrigued by the idea of "flash" brewing in that other thread, figured I'd bounce this off you:

Bell's own two hearted clone recipe's grist is: 74% 2-row, 22% pale, 4% caramel 40

If sparkling amber dme is 85% 2-row, 5% munich, 10% caramel 60, would a 60/40 split between golden lite and sparkling amber probably be pretty danged close in flavor? I think so...


...Working out the math...

3 lbs Golden Light DME	3 lbs 2-row
2 lbs Sparkling Amber DME	1.7 lbs 2-row	94% 2-row (3 lbs + 1.7 lbs) / 5 lbs
	0.1 lbs munich	2% munich
	0.2 lbs cara60	4% cara60

That much would make a 3.5 gallon batch with a 1.064 OG, with possibly no need to boil anything, if one also purchased hop extract. Not sure how to make Brewer's Friend recipe editor work with hop extracts tho. Probably just have figure that amount manually...

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

probably be pretty danged close in flavor? I think so...

I'll agree it's a valid option.

Bell's own two hearted clone recipe's grist is: 74% 2-row, 22% pale, 4% caramel 40

When I though briefly about blending DMEs to make this wort, I ended up at 75% "golden light" DME / 25% "pale ale" DME.

If my custom spreadsheet is correct, it looks like a 40%/20%/40% (golden light / pale ale / amber) blend ends up really close to 74%/22%/4%.

Finding higher quality 'home brewer' centennial hop will be the next consideration.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

If my custom spreadsheet is correct, it looks like a 40%/20%/40% (golden light / pale ale / amber) blend ends up really close to 74%/22%/4%.

Finding higher quality 'home brewer' centennial hop will be the next consideration.

Watching that morebeer flash brewing video, it sure looks like it's identical to their Artisan Hops Hop Shot, right down to the syringe. But the Googles says:

I wish I felt more confident making hop-teas (where you boil say an ounce of hops in a quart of water to make some ridiculously bitter liquid), and add it to wort.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

it sure looks like it's identical to their Artisan Hops Hop Shot, right down to the syringe.

At the moment, I'm willing to trust that MoreBeer is right in both cases:

• their web indicates that shows that Artisan Hops® Hop Shot products need to be added to boiling water. It also should be refrigerated between uses
• the Flash Brewing™ HopBite™ product can be added in the fermenter.

I've use the Hot Shot product once (over five years ago) and it did not flow as smoothly (even warm) as the HopBite™ product.

At the moment, I'm "resolving the conflict" by assuming two different products.

---

Over the in the Flash Brewing™ FAQ, they mention

So, over a five-year journey, we sourced, produced, and tested the ingredients that would allow us to replicate Fresh Wort kits without the water.

There are varying opinions on what they sourced and what the produced.

And while that statement is written like marketing text, I'm also willing to take it at "face value": they did source (and brand) some ingredients and they did develop/produce (and brand) some ingredients.

I'll probably buy a kit over the next year or so. The likely result is a good beer with a recipe that was 'inspired' by a classic craft beer.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Another "spin off" from one of the "flash brewing" threads.

Photographic documentation of this would be awesome

Example: visual of "hot break" (while heating)

Basic Brewing's Hop Sampler with hot break observation

Ingredients

• 1 gal water, 1# DME, hops, yeast.

Process

• heat water to 140F, add DME
• heat slowly (around 2F per minute) up to 200F, watching for hot break
  • see #79 for link to photo with 'foam' and 'hot break'
• bring wort to boil,
• add hops,
• chill
• ..

to me dme (spraymalt) is already hot broke and doesnt need to be boiled.

i think this is from briess:

"The fourth step is boiling. The sweet liquid, which is called "wort", is transferred to the brew kettle where it is boiled.
The fifth step is clarification, which involves transferring the wort to a large tank called a whirlpool that acts like a cyclone to settle out any solid material."

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/is-dme-pre-boiled.395630/

to me that sounds like hot break has been removed.

My experimental observations suggest that the presence/absence of hot break varies by brand, but not by type (LME/DME) or type.

---

eta: "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are (often) not."

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Had an extra 3 lb bag of Briess sparkling amber DME, so I'm making an IPA out of it...

2.75 gal
og: 1057
ibu: 50
3 lbs amber dme
8 oz brown sugar
willamette @30 for 25 ibu
cascade @30 for 10 ibu
mandarina @15 for 15 ibu
us-05

update: dry-hopped with 0.5 oz mandarina for 6 days, then bottled. (Sample tasted delicious)
FG: 1.010

first taste update:
Chilled a bottle, and giving this beer a first real taste... Not bad. Not great. I think it's a little too bitter, and maybe the willamette hop is clashing with the others. Can't remember why I used that in the first place!

bottom of the first-glass update:
Actually, it's kind of growing on me!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

1st attempt at a Brown Ale that's just DME & roasted malts (mostly for color). Experimenting with a blend of "amber" and "dark" DME that should contribute munich malt & medium crystal malt flavors. Cold steeped some chocolate 350L to add color (and some additional flavors).

Brown Ale (DME blend)

• 1.25 gal (end of boil) OG 53, FG 12 (est); SRM 19 (est)
• 12 oz Muntons Extra Light; 6 oz Briess Amber, 4 oz Briess Traditional Dark, 2 oz Sugar
• 1.5 oz Briess Chocolate (350L)
• 7 g Magnum (16.5) @ 30; 7 g Liberty (4.1) & 7 g Perle (5.1) @ 5
• 0.5 g CaCl at flame-on; rehydrated Irish Moss @ 10; 1g yeast nutrient (in fermenter)
• US-05 "2nd generation" (1st generation was 1 g yeast in 4 cups OG 44 wort)

Process

• cold steep Chocolate malt in 16 oz water while heating remaining water to 200F;
• at 200F, remove water to rehydrate Irish Moss; add steeped wort, DME, & sugar to kettle.
• 35 min boil with hops and Irish Moss added at times mentioned above.
• transfer & aerate wort, pitch yeast and yeast nutrient.

Notes

• Bottled today; hydrometer sample was very clear (sorry, no picture) and tasted like a flat brown ale.
• "2nd generation" US-05 started to show active fermentation in a couple of hours.
  • I have a couple of Lallemand London sachets that I may try to "extend" by making starters.

Next step

• rebrew using the "hop sampler" (1 min boil) approach; use DRC (?) and C hops (?)
• (tentative) "no boil" (but pasteurize/boil malts/hops where necessary)

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

After listening to Flash Brewing with Chris Graham [President of MoreBeer]– BeerSmith Podcast #309 this morning, I'm pressing the "pause" button on the "no boil" attempts.

Chris is an excellent guest (focus on what he says). If you're not a fan of BrewSmith podcast, focus on what Chris says and suffer through what you dislike - you will be rewarded.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

follow-up to ...

Brown Ale (DME blend)

... which was bottled a two weeks ago.

tl;dr? blending DME got the color right, but any malt forward flavors that I look for in a Brown Ale are, at best, weak. I generally prefer my brown ales malt forward (e.g. New Glarus Fat Squirrel (it's on their brew list for 2024), Lift Bridge Fireside Flannel, Bells Best Brown (local release this year)) - and this beer isn't that.

I'll likely continue with the base 'grain bill' to see if it works as a "hop sampler" / "1 min boil" for brown / black ales / IPAs.

• maybe cold steep some DRC, light chocolate (200L), Crystal Red, or roasted barley to get some roasted flavors.
• likely use aroma/flavor hops common to hoppy brown ales
• maybe add an oz of Chocolate 350 or di-bittered black malt as a base for black IPAs.

 

[Pehlman17]

Caution(s)
I have different "salts" additions for Briess DME and for Muntons DME. If you brew with Briess Amber DME, the above "salts" additions may result in a mineralized beer.

Do you mind expanding on this a bit? I’ve heard discussion of the sodium issue with Briess DME. I’m curious if anyone has ever confirmed this with a Ward Labs test or something similar. Do you have some general rules of thumb you’ve found for each brand (Muntons v. Briess)? I recall on another thread a while back someone suggesting Muntons was much more of a blank slate so to speak relative to Briess.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Do you mind expanding on this a bit?

Short answer: With Briess DME, if I'm adding 'flavor salts', I limit salt additions to 0.5 g / gal of either CaCl (for malt forward styles) or CaS04 (for hop forward styles). Currenlty, I don't brew with DME above about OG 70.

There's a "longer" answer that covers some of the other things you mentioned. I may reply later this week.

I’m curious if anyone has ever confirmed this with a Ward Labs test or something similar

Anyone?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

The (slightly) longer answer:

Over the last decade (or so), there have been a couple of topics (across three forums) that include ppm values for various brands of DME.

• Briess LME/DME sodium content (AHA forum, 2012)
• Some ppm numbers from Briess (Beer Advocate forum, 2022)
• Muntons and Briess ppm numbers (Brewers Friend forum, 2022)

Please balance the above numbers with the reality that brewers are winning awards with with various brands of DME, perhaps taking advantage of the unique mineral content in each brand.

In the past, there have been a couple of topics on dosing beer 'in the glass' to 'dial in' the flavor salt additions. I've had good results doing that. I've also had good results with dosing individual bottles at packaging time.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Red IIPA (Flash Brewing Irish Red DME)

• 1.5 gal (end of boil); OG 84; FG ??; ABV: ??; IBUs: 75; SRM:??
• 3# Irish Red DME
• 7g Warrior @ 30; 14g Centennial @ 10 & @0; 14 g Cascade @ 0;
• 3.5ml "HopBite" when pitching yeast
• Nottingham yeast

Process

• add 1# DME to 1 gal water; measure SG (PPG) & observe color
• add 2# DME and 3/4 gal water
  • watch wort as it heats to boil; measure SG
• 35 min boil

Notes

• looks like the DME is 42 PPG
• FG was 17
  • it looks like the DME is 80% fermentable with Nottingham.
• for "HopBite" IBUs, I used
  • IBUs = ml / vol / .0533 (30 IBUs = 8 ml / 5 gal / .0533)
  • ml = IBUs * vol * .0533
• the FG sample suggests a relatively low mineral content from the source water (more like Muntons than Briess).
  • I could see "season to taste" (adding Cl, SO4, or Na) as an interesting "kit hack".
• I'll probably bottle this batch next weekend.

Over in the "Flash Brewing" topic (link) , I brewed half of the Irish Red kit as an Amber Ale (used Cascade & Centennial rather than Willamette; 2.25 gal batch to get a slight ABV boost). Using the PPG number, and measuring FG, it appears that I got 80% AA with the Flash Brewing yeast.

Note that this is a sample size of one.

eta: the 30 min boil was the easiest way to gather some of the measurements and observations. I don't see using a 30 min boil in future 'kit hacks'.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

(Blended) Short Boil Hop Sampler (Muntons DME)

• 1.5 gal (end of boil); OG 59; FG 15 (est); IBU 40 (est)
• 2# Muntons DME
• 7 g Chinook (12.4, 7 g CTZ (16.2), 7 g Nugget (16.0) @ 5
• Nottingham

Process

• add DME to 1.5 gal water
• 10 min boil

Notes

• FG (using a 'finishing' hydrometer) was 11.
• add 're-verify calibration' of FG measuring equipment to my 'to do' list.