How to seal leaky spigot/fermenter (possibly caused by heat?)

[worlddivides]

So I've been using my main fermenter for exactly 1 year now (I started using it in July 2024), and I've never really had any problems with it. But today when I added StarSan solution to it, it started leaking from the bottom. Very slowly, but leaking. I tightened the thing you screw on inside, but that didn't work. I disassembled and put it back together, but that didn't work. So I took my second fermenter that I bought last year but never ended up using, but it massively leaked because the spigot had split in half (probably because the closet where I keep it gets up to 110-120F / 45C-50C in the summer here in Japan). So I poured the solution into my bottling bucket, which did not leak and then took the spigot from my main fermenter and moved it to my secondary fermenter. Nope, the secondary fermenter also leaks with that spigot. I tried various different versions before going back to the original crappy spigot that the fermenter came with. Nope, that leaks even more. At this point, my wort had cooled down to the low 70s F (mid 20s C) and I felt I should just give up. So I poured the wort into my bottling bucket, drilled a hole in the bottling bucket's lid to fit my temperature well and airlock, pitched the yeast, and hooked it up to a controller.

The only reason I can think for my fermenters just suddenly starting to leak after a year of not leaking is the massive heat (95F-100F outdoors, 95-100F on the first floor with the AC off, 100-105F on the second floor with the AC off, and 100F-120F on the third floor with the AC off). I normally only have the AC on when I'm in a room, my wife's in a room, or my cats are. The third floor is where I store most things (there just isn't room on the first or second), but the only fermenter I always keep on the first floor is my main fermenter. That said, it was pretty hot last month and I fermented a lager, but it didn't leak at all. So maybe it isn't the heat?

Anyway, I'd prefer to not have to throw away both of these fermenters if I can avoid it, but I can't think of a way to seal them other than what the spigots already have in their design to seal them (the rubber inner ring, for example). Any help would be appreciated!

 

[IslandLizard]

There are different kinds of spigots and assemblies.
First, make sure the rubber washer/seal is on the inside of the fermenter, between the fermenter wall and the (large) tightening nut.

The rubber seal can be dried out, (semi-permanently) compressed, or otherwise damaged.
An old or deformed (rubber) seal can leak where it meets the threads, allowing wort/beer to be siphoned along the threads.

Perhaps you can you post a picture of either fermenter plus a closeup of the spigot assembly?

On a side note, secondaries are usually not necessary. IIRC you don't have the ability to cold crash, but giving the batch an extra 2-3 weeks after fermentation has ended, in the same (primary) fermenter, is usually enough time to give you clear beer, with a well-compacted yeast cake underneath. You do need to carefully rack or siphon, though, spigots are useless in that scenario.

 

[worlddivides]

There are different kinds of spigots and assemblies.
First, make sure the rubber washer/seal is on the inside of the fermenter, between the fermenter wall and the (large) tightening nut.

The rubber seal can be dried out, (semi-permanently) compressed, or otherwise damaged.
An old or deformed (rubber) seal can leak where it meets the threads, allowing wort/beer to be siphoned along the threads.

Perhaps you can you post a picture of either fermenter plus a closeup of the spigot assembly?

On a side note, secondaries are usually not necessary. IIRC you don't have the ability to cold crash, but giving the batch an extra 2-3 weeks after fermentation has ended, in the same (primary) fermenter, is usually enough time to give you clear beer, with a well-compacted yeast cake underneath. You do need to carefully rack or siphon, though, spigots are useless in that scenario.

It's on the inside of the fermenter, though it's certainly possible that the heat has damaged the rubber seal. Considering I tried 3 different spigots on both fermenters.

My "secondary fermenter" is not a "fermenter for secondary fermentation" but a "separate fermenter from my main fermenter." I've never used it before, but I bought it for 5 gallon batches, which are all I ever made in the US. In Japan, though, I've only made 3 gallon batches, so I've only used my main fermenter and not my "secondary" fermenter. Or said in brief, my "main fermenter" is 20 liters, and my "secondary fermenter" is 25 liters. Normally, if I had need for a "secondary fermentation," I'd do that backwards since secondary fermentation should be done in a same-sized or smaller fermenter. Maybe "backup fermenter" would be a better term since it avoids confusing people in thinking I do secondary fermentations, which I have only ever done with wild and sour ales.

Basically, I bought my "secondary" for the case of if I want to brew 5-gallon batches, which I haven't done yet (in Japan, that is. 100% of my brews in the US were 5 gallons), but I would still like to. As such, I've never used it.

I could take a picture of the spigot assembly tomorrow, but it's the same as it's been for the past year, but for whatever reason, it's suddenly leaking for the first time.

I do have the ability to cold crash and I do normally cold crash before transferring to a keg. The only time I haven't cold crashed in the past year is with hazy IPAs.

 

[worlddivides]

Perhaps you can you post a picture of either fermenter plus a closeup of the spigot assembly?

I just took some pictures of it. The first 2 pictures are of it leaking with water in it just above the spigot. The next 2 pictures are the inside after I removed the water. I also wanted to take some pictures of the hole with the spigot removed, but I got frustrated yesterday with how no matter what I did it wouldn't stop leaking that I took a wrench and tightened the nut as much as I could (hence why the plastic is bent and damaged in the pics. It was not bent or damaged before I used the wrench to tighten it). Tightening the nut with the wrench DID stop the leaking, but only temporarily. It started up once I added more water (and thus more weight). The one pic from above (the third pic) makes me feel like the rubber washer/seal isn't flush against the plastic, but I'm not sure why it's suddenly like this after 14 batches fermented in it with no leaks and I'm also not sure how to stop it from leaking.

When I brewed in the US, I started with glass carboys, then switched to Speidel HDPE fermenters. Obviously I never had any leaks with glass (though I stopped using them after one shattered), but I also never had any issues with the Speidel plastic either. I actually like how plastic bucket fermenters are cheap and don't really have any downsides... until now, that is.

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks for the pictures! They really help to understand what you're dealing with.
That spigot assembly is very different from the ones that I've seen and commonly used in the U.S.

For one, in the picture of the "nut" I don't see any threads in it. Is that just a push-on type? If so that would make it difficult to tighten down to obtain a positive seal and may explain the persistent leak.

Also the "washer" seems to be integrated with the nut. Is that "washer" a very dense rubber or even plastic?
I also see a little gap between the fermenter wall and that "washer." Could liquid seep through there to the outside?

 

[worlddivides]

Thanks for the pictures! They really help to understand what you're dealing with.
That spigot assembly is very different from the ones that I've seen and commonly used in the U.S.

For one, in the picture of the "nut" I don't see any threads in it. Is that just a push-on type? If so that would make it difficult to tighten down to obtain a positive seal and may explain the persistent leak.

Also the "washer" seems to be integrated with the nut. Is that "washer" a very dense rubber or even plastic?
I also see a little gap between the fermenter wall and that "washer." Could liquid seep through there to the outside?

I had never heard of push-on spigots before. That sounds like a really bad idea. But even if that were the case, that wouldn't explain why I didn't get leaks in the past 14 batches, but I suddenly started getting a leak now. The washer is rubber.

I do think there might be a little gap between the fermenter wall and the washer, but I'm not sure what caused it and what to do to stop it.

I've attached further pics to show the spigot assembly parts in detail.

Although I never used bucket fermenters in the US (the Speidel fermenter I used being plastic, but not a bucket like these), I assumed this was the main kind of spigot assembly commonly used in the US.

I considered maybe putting the rubber washer from one spigot on the outside and the rubber washer from another spigot on the inside, but I might have thrown away the other washer since the other spigot I had was split in half (I'm assuming because of the insane massive heat on my third floor).

 

[mashdar]

The only infections I ever had were from a spigot. (I didn't realize it had three pieces.) I moved towards an auto-syphon and now pressure transfers, both with solid vessel bottoms. Now, if I have a bad seal, I just notice I'm not holding pressure.

Re spigots, I prefer to keep them cleaned and disassembled. I find gaskets more reliable if not stored compressed.

Maybe if you let the gaskets expand, they'll start working again?

Also: There's often an O ring inside the threaded outer piece where the pivoting inner piece sits - could that be involved?

In the worst case, you can order a very similar spigot and replace it. I think I got a few on morebeer for ~$5 a few years ago, so I'd hope you can find it under 50,000 yen lol
https://www.morebeer.com/products/plastic-spigot-bucket.html
Don't buy the red handled one.

 

[worlddivides]

The only infections I ever had were from a spigot. (I didn't realize it had three pieces.) I moved towards an auto-syphon and now pressure transfers, both with solid vessel bottoms. Now, if I have a bad seal, I just notice I'm not holding pressure.

Re spigots, I prefer to keep them cleaned and disassembled. I find gaskets more reliable if not stored compressed.

Maybe if you let the gaskets expand, they'll start working again?

Also: There's often an O ring inside the threaded outer piece where the pivoting inner piece sits - could that be involved?

In the worst case, you can order a very similar spigot and replace it. I think I got a few on morebeer for ~$5 a few years ago, so I'd hope you can find it under 50,000 yen lol
https://www.morebeer.com/products/plastic-spigot-bucket.html
Don't buy the red handled one.

That is the EXACT spigot I'm using. I actually ordered 2 of those yesterday for about $5 each since it's cheap enough (if it was 50,000 yen, I'd just buy a whole new fermenter, hahaha).

I have difficulty thinking that it's a problem with the fermenters themselves since I haven't... done anything, and the only difference is the brutal, BRUTAL, DEVASTATING heat of the Japanese summer in general and the fact that I store these in a closet on the third floor where it can get up to 120F or so (and I'm just assuming that's why the one spigot split in half).

I used auto-syphons when I used carboys, but they're kind of a pain. You're definitely right that there's only one spot where pressure can escape, though, which does make you more confident in it holding pressure.

I've only had two infections so far, and neither of them were from my equipment. One was from a kettle sour that got infected in the kettle. And the other got infected in just a few bottles but not the rest of the bottles.

I'm going to let the three pieces expand and then try one more time while I'm waiting for the spigots I ordered yesterday to arrive.

 

[worlddivides]

I considered maybe putting the rubber washer from one spigot on the outside and the rubber washer from another spigot on the inside, but I might have thrown away the other washer since the other spigot I had was split in half (I'm assuming because of the insane massive heat on my third floor).

I can hardly believe it, but this "double washer" idea actually worked. I ended up using a much thinner and smaller rubber washer (for a completely different spigot) to the outside, then used the thicker rubber washer on the inside, I put about 8 liters of water into the fermenter and left it for 20 minutes. It never leaked. I can't say for sure that it's a solution, but it's the first thing I've tried since this whole issue started that has not resulted in any leakage.

Photos:

 

[IslandLizard]

I do think there might be a little gap between the fermenter wall and the washer

That's can very well be the issue. Does the washer feel dried out, not much compressible anymore?
The nut should be tightened enough to sufficiently compress the washer to make a positive seal. That, without stripping the threads.

I can hardly believe it, but this "double washer" idea actually worked.

Hooray!
That seems to point to the original washer, just by itself, not being up to its task anymore.

 

[worlddivides]

That's can very well be the issue. Does the washer feel dried out, not much compressible anymore?
The nut should be tightened enough to sufficiently compress the washer to make a positive seal. That, without stripping the threads.


Hooray!
That seems to point to the original washer, just by itself, not being up to its task anymore.

I do think that might be it. Just like how the massive heat on the third floor cracked the spigot on my larger backup fermenter, I think that heat probably dried out the washer to make it insufficient for properly sealing. The leaks in the two fermenters up until now have been very slow and gradual (and in one case didn't even start until a few minutes after I added the water), but any leak at all is obviously unacceptable.

I did order 2 replacement spigots, so I intend to switch them out when they arrive. The real problem is that I only have room for 1 fermenter on the first floor, so I have no choice but to leave these on the third floor where it can get up to 120F or so in the summer. One idea is to just keep the spigots unattached when I'm not using a fermenter and keep them on the first floor, because while I don't have room for more than one fermenter on the first floor, I do have room for smaller things like the detached spigots.

 

[neale]

I can hardly believe it, but this "double washer" idea actually worked.

I know you've solved the problem for now but for future reference the rubber washer should be on the outside of the FV not the inside.

If you think how a thread works, its basically a spiral 'gap' that goes from inside your FV to the outside flange of the spigot. If you put the washer on the inside there is still a spiral gap. By putting the rubber washer on the outside you make a seal between the face of the spigot flange and the FV side wall. So anything trying to escape through that spiral gap gets stopped by the washer.

It might be that on previous batches you had the washer on the outside? or that you got a good enough seal from the flange of the spigot against the FV wall. This can easily be the case when there is no pressure involved.

Its a very common mistake for people to make, and often they end up using PTFE tape when all thats needed is to have the washer or o-ring against two sealing faces, ie on the outside.

 

[Broken Crow]

I'll agree with you for this specific stiuation as it is not a genuine bulkhead and requires absurd workarounds. It fails to be a bulkhead firstly in the threads all the way to the base and secondly for using a flat washer instead of providing a groove for an o-ring after an unthreaded area at the base which can accomplish both the seals needed...though many manufacturers ignore this fact because 'it works long enough..' With the seal on the outside of the body, there will be seepage along the innapropriate threads which require you disassemble the whole thing to clean after every use. There aren't very many genuine bulkheads in the world and none I know of that are made of plastic save those already installed on mass-produced products which were at least designed with an unthreaded area to accomplish a seal....here's the original spigot from a 10G Igloo cooler; (note the flat area for the washer to compress against)

...when that came out it was filthy along the threads....unsanitary, yuck!
Here's one of the very few genuine bulkheads you'll find on earth, and the only one designed by a homebrewer for homebrewers, @Bobby_M 's True Bulkhead which uses a groove to contain the o-ring and no threads inside the o-ring, accomplishing a seal in both critical areas upon tightening:

We do what we can with what we have and most bottlers are content with the compromises and use either the red-cored slightly translucent spigot https://www.morebeer.com/products/plastic-spigot-bucket-rotating-tap.html or the globally more popular all white one https://www.morebeer.com/products/plastic-spigot-bucket.html ..best bought in multi-packs from the cheapest dealer to carry them online because they're all made from the same company;

An important point to note about these cheap plastic spigots that not every user is aware of: The nut included with the spigot from more reputable sellers has nice smooth indented finger-holds;

In lieu of instructions, this indicates that it should be tightened by hand and not with a wrench. Tightening with a wrench deforms the washer.
Washers wear out over time (especially with wrench tightening) and have to be replaced...sometimes you can simply flip it over and use it a little longer. Plastic spigots need service beyond heating it up and shoving a dowel up the spout to force the core out for regular cleaning. If you intend to always use a spigot with a plastic vessel, you really ought to consider a Stainless Steel permanent solution to get the seal where it belongs: On the Inside; https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/truebulkheadmale.htm
...just my 2-cents.

 

[worlddivides]

It might be that on previous batches you had the washer on the outside? or that you got a good enough seal from the flange of the spigot against the FV wall. This can easily be the case when there is no pressure involved.

Nope. The opposite. In over 1,100 liters of beer brewed, I've never had the washer on the outside. In fact, you'll notice that the advice in this thread other than your post is that I need to make sure it's on the inside.

There are different kinds of spigots and assemblies.
First, make sure the rubber washer/seal is on the inside of the fermenter, between the fermenter wall and the (large) tightening nut.

 

[worlddivides]

If you intend to always use a spigot with a plastic vessel, you really ought to consider a Stainless Steel permanent solution to get the seal where it belongs: On the Inside; https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/truebulkheadmale.htm
...just my 2-cents.

I used to have a stainless steel spigot on my plastic Speidel in the US, but that's unfortunately not an option where I live now. So I'll just need to keep an eye for something like this happening again.

 

[mac_1103]

The plastic spigots on my buckets all have two washers. Came that way. One inside and one outside, obviously. The spigots on my plastic carboys have one washer. Tapered. Outside.

 

[wsmith1625]

My Fermonster has one tapered washer that goes on the outside. Does anyone know where to source replacement tapered washers? I can't find them anywhere.

 

[mac_1103]

The Vintage Shop has replacement spigots and o-rings on their web site, but they don't do direct retail. I would try contacting them to see if they can hook you up with a vendor.