How to remove the bitter flavor

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chichum

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I'm very (VERY) new to liking IPAs and at the moment I don't like any that are bitter at all. I'm really into the NEIPA style that are straight juice bombs (Aslin Double Orange Starfish and Pew Pew Pew are what got me into it). I made my first batch of a NEIPA and used citra/galaxy. The aroma and initial fruit/citrus flavor is awesome. But it has a pretty strong bitter aftertaste. As I said I'm new to hoppy beers as I usually make BA stouts and belgians. Here's my hop schedule. What am I doing wrong that I'm getting such a bitter flavor?

1 oz (28 g) Citra at 20 minutes
3 oz (85 g) Citra at 5 minutes
3 oz (85 g) Citra at knockout
3 oz (85 g) Galaxy at knockout
30 minute whirlpool with no heat
3 oz (85 g) Citra at dry hop (5 days)
3 oz (85 g) Galaxy at dry hop (5 days)
 
I had my most recent IPA come out overly bitter and it ended up being a pH problem. My final beer pH was 4.8. Ideally it should be under 4.5. I've noticed that hop bitterness can become harsh and muddled with a high pH. I added 2ml of lactic acid to the keg of the finished beer which got it to pH 4.4 and that really smoothed out the bitterness. If you have a pH meter I think it would be worth checking. It may not be the problem but I would think it's water/pH related.
 
I'm very (VERY) new to liking IPAs and at the moment I don't like any that are bitter at all. I'm really into the NEIPA style that are straight juice bombs (Aslin Double Orange Starfish and Pew Pew Pew are what got me into it). I made my first batch of a NEIPA and used citra/galaxy. The aroma and initial fruit/citrus flavor is awesome. But it has a pretty strong bitter aftertaste. As I said I'm new to hoppy beers as I usually make BA stouts and belgians. Here's my hop schedule. What am I doing wrong that I'm getting such a bitter flavor?

1 oz (28 g) Citra at 20 minutes
3 oz (85 g) Citra at 5 minutes
3 oz (85 g) Citra at knockout
3 oz (85 g) Galaxy at knockout
30 minute whirlpool with no heat
3 oz (85 g) Citra at dry hop (5 days)
3 oz (85 g) Galaxy at dry hop (5 days)



Like you, I enjoy good hop flavors and aromas, but the bitterness thing just doesn't work for me. I never liked IPAs much until I learned late hop addition techniques.

Do some reading on hop extracts (I use Yakima Valley) and I think you'll end up trying it. I use CTZ extract at first of the 60 min boil to give me around 20 of my IBU's. Flameout is going to bring out a good portion of bitterness especially if you keep the WP going as you keep adding more. To combat this, I only add an ounce of hops at FO (none before that except hop extract) and start the WP. Keep it going until you hit the 180F point, add half of your hops, keep going til 160F, then add the rest for another few minutes.


This is just my opinion of which there are MANY opinions and techniques out there, but you may be adding all these hops while your wort is still a bit too hot, thusly extracting bitterness.

Citra and Galaxy are wonderfully awesome hops, and you want to try adding a dash of Mosaic to take it to a new level of goodness.
 
What is your water chemistry like? If your low-ish IBU IPAs are harsh, I suspect that either the mash pH is too high, or the sulfate level is very high. Or maybe both.

Do you use bottled water, or tap water?
 
Morrey hit on it ..your 30 min WP if above 180 degrees rather you heat or not is basically adding 30min to your 20 min addition which now becomes a 50 min addition. So try cooling fast after flame out down below 180 or skip the 20 altogether.
If its your water then I'm no help.
 
Thanks for all of the info. I'm going to get a pH meter and test that first. And for the next round I'll bring the temp down to 180 before doing my flameout additions. Much appreciated!!
 
Thanks for all of the info. I'm going to get a pH meter and test that first. And for the next round I'll bring the temp down to 180 before doing my flameout additions. Much appreciated!!


I'm having the same issue, so this last time I pitched a few ounces after 170. We will see!

I'm not trying for a NEIPA, however I do need more flavor over bitterness. All I'm getting is malt and bitterness and a little flavor.

However, I did add gypsum because I thought that was my problem. My starting water ph is 8, but I haven't tested the wort ph. Don't know if I ruined my chances w/gypsum. but I'll let you know how it goes.
 
I'm having the same issue, so this last time I pitched a few ounces after 170. We will see!

I'm not trying for a NEIPA, however I do need more flavor over bitterness. All I'm getting is malt and bitterness and a little flavor.

However, I did add gypsum because I thought that was my problem. My starting water ph is 8, but I haven't tested the wort ph. Don't know if I ruined my chances w/gypsum. but I'll let you know how it goes.

Not intending to launch a new topic here, but you are hitting all over an important aspect of managing hops in the beer...and that is the balance of sulfates to chlorides. Readings on the subject suggests it is the "ratio" or "balance" of SO4 to Cl that makes differences in hop perception. Its surely worth taking some time to do some reading on the subject. I find Bru'n Water program an invaluable tool in determining numbers/additions of elements to add to your water. In my own testing I made a hoppy beer (beer 1) with 134 Cl to 67 SO4. The same base recipe (beer 2) I reversed the salts to 67 Cl to 134 SO4. I enjoyed recipe 1 more in a side by side comparison and found it offered a softer more muted "edge" on the hops while recipe 2 had a sharper hop edge or profile.

I continue to feel late hop additions really make a huge impact, but I maintain that brewing salts balances and ratios "ice the cake", so to speak.
 
Morrey hit on it ..your 30 min WP if above 180 degrees rather you heat or not is basically adding 30min to your 20 min addition which now becomes a 50 min addition. So try cooling fast after flame out down below 180 or skip the 20 altogether.
If its your water then I'm no help.

I agree 100%, and based on my experiences, I'd simply skip the 20 and move that addition/amount into the WP watching the wort temp as you suggested.
 
A couple questions: So I did a pH reading of the beer and it's 4.51 so that should be okay, I believe. My tap water is 7.40 - is this normal? And when doing the flame out additions, do I want to quickly bring it down to 180, add hops and keep the wort chiller in and quickly bring it to 160? Or do I want to bring it to 180 and let it free fall to 160?

Thanks again all
 
A couple questions: So I did a pH reading of the beer and it's 4.51 so that should be okay, I believe. My tap water is 7.40 - is this normal? And when doing the flame out additions, do I want to quickly bring it down to 180, add hops and keep the wort chiller in and quickly bring it to 160? Or do I want to bring it to 180 and let it free fall to 160?

Thanks again all

Ph levels look similar to mine. I consider them ok. Normal, yes to the tap water although that can fluctuate within a defined range.

I just turn my WP pump on at FO and it hits 180F by freefalling pretty quickly. Of course you can do it with a chiller in place almost instantly so it is your discretion. I build my WP time into my plan and only use the IC when finished with the WP.
 
4.51 is fine. Water pH doesn't matter too much by itself but 7-8 is normal for tap water. Mash and boil pH are much more important. As far as your hop stand goes I would chill to 180, add hops, then let it free fall to 160. Probably will take 20-30 minutes.
 
A couple questions: So I did a pH reading of the beer and it's 4.51 so that should be okay, I believe. My tap water is 7.40 - is this normal? And when doing the flame out additions, do I want to quickly bring it down to 180, add hops and keep the wort chiller in and quickly bring it to 160? Or do I want to bring it to 180 and let it free fall to 160?

Thanks again all

It's not the finished beer pH that matters- the yeast will set that to their preference. It's the mash pH, and in this case you want it at 5.3 or so. Alkalinity in the brewing water will often create a harshness.

Also, a higher sulfate level will enhance the perception of dryness in the finished beer and create firmer, even harsh, bitterness.

It's important to know the water make up before tweaking it.
 
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