How to make AMAZING IPA

[beerkench]

I see. So, in theory, could you just release some pressure from the keg that's getting filled, by the valve on the coupler, as you go?
Should be the same thing right?

If I remember gas laws from college, then as the volume increases, the pressure would be as well, so if the pressure in the filling keg > pressure in the transferring carboy, that's probably why it stops.

Intermittent releasing on the filling keg should fix that, yeah?



Good point.
I keep thinking about this, but I'm pretty stumped, as the mad fermentationist and JC from Trillium have both stated that they prefer to hop while there is still some yeast activity occurring. Something about the (still) active fermentation contributes another level of depth to the hop flavor and aroma?

So, if that's the case, then you'd lose some of that hop presence if you crashed it after, and you wouldn't want to crash it prior to the yeast finishing their job.
I'm wondering if maybe I could ferment in a keg, then just transfer the beer on the 3rd or 4th day of fermentation, into another keg with the dry hop bag inside.
That way I could purge out some yeast first, but there'd still be some left to shoot over to the secondary keg w/ the dry hop?


I dunno. its confusing.

One thing is for sure, though... our hoppy beers fade FAST. Like, 1 week fast.

I'm thinking it's due to not having much hops in the boil, and all at whirlpool/dry hop.
Although, I've seen several people say that they have no problems doing that.

I'm lost

Yeah the pressure has to be released on the keg that's being filled. I just leave the pressure release valve open on my corny.

As for dry hopping during fermentation, yes a lot of breweries dry hop with 1-2 gravity points left but they also have the advantage of using conicals, therefore being able to drop the yeast cake before. Like I said previously, I'm of the opinion that the yeast cake acts like a big sponge sucking in all the hop oils, so your suggestion of transferring to a dry hopped keg is a good one although I wouldn't do it mid fermenation.
Breweries can also cap the conicals keeping in the aroma and they also rouse the dry hop by using either a co2 stone in the vessel or by pumping the beer round inside.
I think the best way to imitate this on a homebrew scale is by transferring the beer from the primary into a purged keg with a shorter, cut dip tube that already has the loose hops in it. Then one can dry hop for x amount of days, shaking the keg every now and then to get the oils into the beer, and then cold crashing and transferring to another keg.
If I lived in the USA I think I would buy me one of these http://www.clearbeerdraughtsystem.com and use that in the dry hopped keg to rather drink direct or rack over to another keg.

 

[Braufessor]

In regard to avoiding O2 pickup...... this is what I have been doing with great success.

*Primary ferment (my fermenters have spigots)
*Day 5-7 range, add 1st dry hop to primary
*Day 12 range, Cold crash at 33 for 2 days
*Day 14 transfer via gravity into a CO2 purged dry hopping keg using the set up below for 2nd dry hop
http://www.bear-flavored.com/2014/09/how-i-dry-hop-my-ipas-with-no-oxygen.html
*Day 16 Jump from Dry hop keg to CO2 purged serving keg under pressure.

This works great to drop yeast before second dry hop and also eliminates all hop debris before transferring to serving keg as it is filtered out in the dry hop keg. No oxygen pick up with this method.

 

[mbbransc]

I'm using the same method as Brau except I leave it in the first keg with the 2nd dry hop (no transfer to serving keg). I have the hops bagged in the purged keg before racking beer on top of it.

 

[m00ps]

In regard to avoiding O2 pickup...... this is what I have been doing with great success.

*Primary ferment (my fermenters have spigots)
*Day 5-7 range, add 1st dry hop to primary
*Day 12 range, Cold crash at 33 for 2 days
*Day 14 transfer via gravity into a CO2 purged dry hopping keg using the set up below for 2nd dry hop
http://www.bear-flavored.com/2014/09/how-i-dry-hop-my-ipas-with-no-oxygen.html
*Day 16 Jump from Dry hop keg to CO2 purged serving keg under pressure.

This works great to drop yeast before second dry hop and also eliminates all hop debris before transferring to serving keg as it is filtered out in the dry hop keg. No oxygen pick up with this method.

I remember reading that about a year ago. I even got that dip tube screen, but ended up deciding not to get the dry hop screen since it was expensive. Do you think its really worth it? Ive just been dry hopping and serving out of the same keg. My issue is, I would need like 3 or more of each of those with the number of IPAs I usually have. Otherwise, it wouldnt be fair to my other IPAs

 

[Braufessor]

I brew a lot of IPA's too. They are really only spending 2 days in the dry hop keg and then I transfer to a regular keg with no screen, etc. Clean the dry hop keg and put the next batch of beer in it. That way I only need the 1 set of dip tube screens and I can rotate beers through it pretty quickly.

 

[StopTakingMyUsername]

So I tried doing it in the keg, but like an idiot I forgot that I needed to bleed some pressure off, and I left the coupler disengaged, so when I put it back on it sprayed everywhere and the beer was all foamy sludge.
Lesson learned.
Doing it again now, and I'm just bleeding off a little bit of pressure every couple days.
Didn't run into any issue with the spear clogging (we use sankes so may be different than the dip tube on a corny).

We just transfer the chilled wort into the sanke and then pitch, seal it up, and put on the coupler with a blowoff tube running into a growler of sanitizer.
Then on the 4-5th day of fermentation, we CO2 transfer it to another keg (purged) with a bag of dry hops in it (we weigh them down with a couple sanitized ss fittings).

I dunno if we're doing that right, but seems to be in line with what you guys are saying.
I think if I hadn't forgot to bleed off some pressure, the last one would've worked great.

 

[StopTakingMyUsername]

oh, and i was gunna ask...
when you guys do your whirlpool additions, do you put the hops directly into the wort?

We have a hop spider and just hang a paint strainer bag down in the wort and toss the hops in that (easier to clean up, no clogs from hop matter).

Also, I read on bear flavored that he puts a lid on during the whirlpool?
Does that matter? I guess I could see it "locking in" the volatized hop aromas, but I dunno... I wouldn't think it'd make much difference.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

oh, and i was gunna ask...
when you guys do your whirlpool additions, do you put the hops directly into the wort?

We have a hop spider and just hang a paint strainer bag down in the wort and toss the hops in that (easier to clean up, no clogs from hop matter).

Also, I read on bear flavored that he puts a lid on during the whirlpool?
Does that matter? I guess I could see it "locking in" the volatized hop aromas, but I dunno... I wouldn't think it'd make much difference.

I just dump them in and start swirling, I don't tend to have clogging problems if I give them time to settle out before transferring. The spider is probably a good idea but I'd make sure the hops are getting hit by the outside flow of the spinning wort so it "washes" the hops and oils into solution (that's just what I would do with a spider).

I leave the lid on during whirlpool just to make sure nothing falls into the wort, not worried about "locking in" any flavor just trying to keep it sanitary.

 

[kevink]

In regard to avoiding O2 pickup...... this is what I have been doing with great success.

*Primary ferment (my fermenters have spigots)
*Day 5-7 range, add 1st dry hop to primary
*Day 12 range, Cold crash at 33 for 2 days
*Day 14 transfer via gravity into a CO2 purged dry hopping keg using the set up below for 2nd dry hop
http://www.bear-flavored.com/2014/09/how-i-dry-hop-my-ipas-with-no-oxygen.html
*Day 16 Jump from Dry hop keg to CO2 purged serving keg under pressure.

This works great to drop yeast before second dry hop and also eliminates all hop debris before transferring to serving keg as it is filtered out in the dry hop keg. No oxygen pick up with this method.

With this method, are you warming the beer back up with something after kegging? If you're just letting room temp warm it up, your second round of dry hops are spending a day at a pretty low temperature.

For my last batch, I dropped trub and put my two dry hop additions into the fermenter at the same time and left them for 3 days at 70 degrees instead of doing two rounds of dry hopping. I then cold crashed at 33 degrees for 3 or 4 days with a half pound of CO2 on the fermenter, kegged to StarSan/CO2 purged kegs, and carbed. This way, I was able to carb very fast since it was already cold. You also get to drink a younger beer since you don't have to wait for the second round of dry hopping. It just seems like more work for questionable benefit to rack off the first round of dry hops, warm the beer, dry hop a second time, then chill it again. You're also adding a second transfer which you might be able to eliminate. Just curious if you have ever tried to do both dry hop additions at the same time in the fermenter. I used to do one round of dry hopping in the fermenter and a second round in a keg and it was no better than my current method. In fact, I will say that the current method works better.

 

[Braufessor]

With this method, are you warming the beer back up with something after kegging? If you're just letting room temp warm it up, your second round of dry hops are spending a day at a pretty low temperature.

For my last batch, I dropped trub and put my two dry hop additions into the fermenter at the same time and left them for 3 days at 70 degrees instead of doing two rounds of dry hopping. I then cold crashed at 33 degrees for 3 or 4 days with a half pound of CO2 on the fermenter, kegged to StarSan/CO2 purged kegs, and carbed. This way, I was able to carb very fast since it was already cold. You also get to drink a younger beer since you don't have to wait for the second round of dry hopping. It just seems like more work for questionable benefit to rack off the first round of dry hops, warm the beer, dry hop a second time, then chill it again. You're also adding a second transfer which you might be able to eliminate. Just curious if you have ever tried to do both dry hop additions at the same time in the fermenter. I used to do one round of dry hopping in the fermenter and a second round in a keg and it was no better than my current method. In fact, I will say that the current method works better.

I may have to revisit again, but I have not found any issues with current process. The extra dry hop in the primary may result in too much debris in my SS Brew Bucket ..... end result - transferring hop material etc. into my serving keg.

I can't say that I alway cold crash the primary - sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Often I pull a sample out of the spigot to check for clarity. If it seems pretty clean, I might not cold crash at all.

It is something I should probably test head to head at some point in the future for a real concrete comparison. For now though, I do know my IPA's are better than they were in the past and I have a pretty good process down - so it just is not much work or effort to do any of it.

 

[kevink]

I"m sure there are no issues with your process, but I think you can shave a few grain to glass days off and possibly get a better dry hop as you will be putting them all in at an more dry hop friendly temperature (if you are in fact doing the second round close to cold crash temps). Let us know if you do any further experimenting. I think shortening grain to glass for these types of beers is crucial. My last was 15 days (my fastest ever) and I think I can shave 3 days off of the next batch.

 

[m00ps]

I usually have mine kegged by day 12 to 14. After that, they sit at room temp and 35psi for a few days 28th the keg hops. By the end of the third week, it's always carbed and tasting good. I usually do 2 dry hop additions still not including the keg hops but I haven't really tried comparing the results. I've just been leaving the beer in a single keg with the hops

I have transferred into a purged keg through the liquid out post though. I really liked how well that worked. Just be sure to have the relief valve locked open.

 

[Braufessor]

I generally shoot for grain to glass in about 16-18 days I would say. I have pushed it down to 12-15 a few times, but was not as happy with the results. However, that is not to say 12-15 is too fast...... I have been doing lots of different experimenting with hoppy beers this past year, so it could have been a variety of variables impacting that. I think I have my basic procedure, water and recipe where I like it now. I will likely tweak single variables in the future to see if I want to refine my process further.

I suppose on the bright side, in regard to beer "longevity" - even though I am maybe getting to serving a few days later than I could, my IPA's almost never see 4.5-5 weeks old before the keg is gone. Often gone by 4 weeks from brew day - So, they tend to get drunk up while fresh

I will update if I find out anything worth sharing.

 

[kevink]

I usually have mine kegged by day 12 to 14. After that, they sit at room temp and 35psi for a few days 28th the keg hops. By the end of the third week, it's always carbed and tasting good. I usually do 2 dry hop additions still not including the keg hops but I haven't really tried comparing the results. I've just been leaving the beer in a single keg with the hops

I have transferred into a purged keg through the liquid out post though. I really liked how well that worked. Just be sure to have the relief valve locked open.

My last beer was crazy. I racked 34 degree beer from the fermenter to the keg on day 15 and hit the kegs with 25 psi CO2. Cold crashing was done at 0.5 psi, so there was a little carbonation in the beer before even getting to the kegs. Anyway, I shook the kegs over the next few hours 10-15 times and we had drinkable beer about 5 hours later. Flavors came together over the next few days, but the hop freshness was unreal. I am going to do this exact thing next time but with a slightly shorter grain to glass.

 

[StopTakingMyUsername]

Just wanted to reiterate stuff I've learned that has been immensely helpful in making top-tier IPAs (in case anyone is following, or finds this thread on Google):

- Simple grist. Two row or pils base (many 2-row doesnt live up to what we want, Rahr is pretty great though). Light amount (3-5%) of C20 or C10, Munich or Vienna if you prefer (we like a little for flavor).

- Trillium uses white wheat for some mouthfeel. If you're going for one of the smoother, more tropical juice bombs, I'd strongly recommend it.

- No 60 min bittering addition to avoid unpleasant, long-lasting, tongue-coating bitterness

- One "flavor/bitter" addition for some substance (We've been doing very light 30 min additions - not sure how much variance you'd get with a 40 or 20). Your tastes may vary.

- Total IBU under 40. Often under 30. Your tastes may vary.

- Late addition (around 10 min - 1-2 oz)

- MASSIVE flameout addition (3 - 4 oz +). Whirlpool (or steep) until temp hits sub 170 F (usually 20-30 mins for us).

- Fermentation: For drier, clean, west coast IPAs - Cali ale, SD Super, or Wyeast equivalent (could use US-05). For juicy, tropical hops - London III.

- Dry hop #1 added on 3rd or 4th day of fermentation (2-3 oz). Let sit 4-5 days.

- Cold crash after complete fermentation, CO2 transfer to CO2 purged keg with second dry hop (2-3 oz). Let sit 4-5 more days.

- Trillium uses tons of citra and galaxy, so if you're looking for something in that vein, start there. For Boneyard/Barley Browns I'm leaning towards Mosaic, Citra, C hops (cascade, centennial, MAYBE light chinook), and Simcoe/Amarillo.

At this point we'd bottle or serve. Seems to be working pretty well. Obviously some room for improvements, but the hop presence, yeast profiles, and body are pretty spot on with where we've been looking for them to be.

I usually have mine kegged by day 12 to 14. After that, they sit at room temp and 35psi for a few days 28th the keg hops.

Curious about this.

I assume at 35 PSI you could carb at any temp, but CO2 is far more soluble at colder temperatures. My dilemma is how do I carb while dry hopping? Since carb = 40 F or just under, and dry hop = room temp or over?


I've heard Boneyard RPM is a 6 day IPA from grain to keg. Not sure if that's 100% but that is impressive, and with Tony's background in brewing systems efficiency, I wouldn't be surprised.
Would love to learn how to turn an amazing IPA over in 10-12 days even.

 

[m00ps]

not sure why my phone autocorrected "with" into "28th" . why is that even in its predictive dictionary. How often do you use that word?

I have a few CO2 tanks. I keep one hooked up to my kegerator at serving pressure, and the other at room temperature for purging and stuff. Its stays hooked up to kegs waiting in line for the kegerator at 35psi so they get at least halfway carbed by the time they go in the kegerator. During this time, they are sitting on the keg hops

 

[mbbransc]

I think we're to the point now, we can begin talking about dry hop re-circulations. Is anyone here doing it? It's the next step I plan to take. According to Peter Wolfe's thesis from Oregon St, you can extract up to 40% more hop oils via re-circulation, and it's all done in about 24 hours.

source: http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/34093/Wolfe_thesis.pdf

I know many of these newer hop bombs are using some forms of re-circulation. Question is, how can homebrewer apply that?

 

[Calichusetts]

DIY torpedo. Keg + pump + hop back/rocket. There is a thread out there on this and it has been done

 

[kevink]

I think we're to the point now, we can begin talking about dry hop re-circulations. Is anyone here doing it? It's the next step I plan to take. According to Peter Wolfe's thesis from Oregon St, you can extract up to 40% more hop oils via re-circulation, and it's all done in about 24 hours.

source: http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/34093/Wolfe_thesis.pdf

I know many of these newer hop bombs are using some forms of re-circulation. Question is, how can homebrewer apply that?

It's probably easier to just add more dry hops to get the same effect. This is probably more suitable to commercial brewers who could potentially save a lot of money by using less hops. Hops are expensive, but on our level they're not crazy expensive.

 

[StopTakingMyUsername]

I think we're to the point now, we can begin talking about dry hop re-circulations. Is anyone here doing it? It's the next step I plan to take. According to Peter Wolfe's thesis from Oregon St, you can extract up to 40% more hop oils via re-circulation, and it's all done in about 24 hours.

source: http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/34093/Wolfe_thesis.pdf

I know many of these newer hop bombs are using some forms of re-circulation. Question is, how can homebrewer apply that?

I'm sure it's feasible. Essentially, you're just running wort through another vessel that holds the hops, and then it is pumped back into the kettle (which then goes back to the vessel, etc etc etc)?

Would you do that *IN ADDITION* to a whirlpool/steep addition? Or in place of (for better extraction of oils)?

DIY torpedo. Keg + pump + hop back/rocket. There is a thread out there on this and it has been done

Do you have a link by any chance? Or remember the name so I could search?
I'm really interested in this now

 

[cycomiko]

Many will use CO2 blown through the bottom of the conical to blow the hops back up into solution rather than doing a continuous circulation on the vessel. Kimmich from the Alchemist says to do it under his recipes provided into the IPA book from Mitch Steele.

 

[Calichusetts]

I'm sure it's feasible. Essentially, you're just running wort through another vessel that holds the hops, and then it is pumped back into the kettle (which then goes back to the vessel, etc etc etc)?

Would you do that *IN ADDITION* to a whirlpool/steep addition? Or in place of (for better extraction of oils)?



Do you have a link by any chance? Or remember the name so I could search?
I'm really interested in this now

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=271547

This is a common practice among several breweries to keep their beer under constant pressure while avoiding introducing oxygen during dry hopping. Its also easier to manage when you consider the volume of beer being dry hopped in a commercial setting.

 

[mbbransc]

No, no torpedo. Dry hop in fermenter and attach a pump to recirculate...

Fermenter -> pump -> back to fermenter

Yes, in addition to whirlpool.

Several posts about it on probrewer.com. Never really tackled on a homebrew scale because to make it most practical, you'll need a conical. But I'm thinking I'm going to try it.

 

[mbbransc]

Many will use CO2 blown through the bottom of the conical to blow the hops back up into solution rather than doing a continuous circulation on the vessel. Kimmich from the Alchemist says to do it under his recipes provided into the IPA book from Mitch Steele.

From what I've heard, blowing CO2 through the bottom will release aromatics from solution and have a detrimental effect on aroma. UNLESS you have a sealed vessel. Problem is most homebrew sized conicals can only take ~4psi.

 

[cycomiko]

From what I've heard, blowing CO2 through the bottom will release aromatics from solution and have a detrimental effect on aroma. UNLESS you have a sealed vessel. Problem is most homebrew sized conicals can only take ~4psi.

Plenty do it without capping. Potentially blowing off some compounds but the gains are in excess of the losses.

 

[cycomiko]

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/post2189/

I am sure its that one where they talk about it with the brewer

Plus also on the (fancier) home brew scale

http://www.metabrewing.com/2013/02/recirculating-dry-hops-extract-more.html

 

[beerkench]

If you are dry hopping in a keg you can blow co2 through the out post every now and then. Or simply give the keg a good shake.

 

[mbbransc]

Yep, that metabrewing article is what I plan to try. Anyone here tried anything similar? Success? Failure? No difference?

 

[gotbags-10]

Just purchased my first conical. I've also heard about purging the conical with co2 to stir the dry hops. I would love to try this. Is there a thread talking about this anywhere? Im assuming it's done through the dump valve since that's where the hops settle. Wouldn't opening the valve attached to a co2 line flood it seeing as we can only put up to 4 psi through a conical?

 

[mbbransc]

Poster on reddit (and probably here) tied together and summed up a bunch of reports/info on dry hopping.

http://scottjanish.com/examination-...s-for-achieving-maximum-hop-aroma-and-flavor/