How to keep Trub out of the fermenter

[Soulshine2]

It sounds like if we were a little more patient to let it settle out on its own post-chill, we could achieve a clearer wort . For me , its hard to spin it while the immersion chiller is still in there . Once I pull that , it stirs it back up. Next brew, I'll chill it to my usual , pull the immersion coil , restir to cone it up and let it rest 30 mins or so and see what happens.

 

[Homergah]

It sounds like if we were a little more patient to let it settle out on its own post-chill, we could achieve a clearer wort . For me , its hard to spin it while the immersion chiller is still in there . Once I pull that , it stirs it back up. Next brew, I'll chill it to my usual , pull the immersion coil , restir to cone it up and let it rest 30 mins or so and see what happens.

And that's how you do it. You minimize transfer of trub the best you can without screwing around with gadgets. You'll end up with a reasonable amount of trub in the fermentor.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

This is probably not as effective as you would think. Since cold break starts forming below 60°C unless you chill the wort really, really fast, most of the larger particulate matter will already have settled to the bottom long before it had a chance to "meet up" with any cold break material. Maybe if you where to give everything a good rousing once the wort is cold and then let it all settle once more...

I whirlpool during chilling. The constant movement of the wort makes the immersion chiller far more effective and faster than the wort sitting stationary. Water (and wort) is actually very self-insulating when it isn't moving, so constantly stirring or whirlpooling when using an immersion chiller is orders of magnitude faster than just letting it sit or occasionally stirring.

So yes, my wort is in a constantly stirred up state from boil temp down to 46F, which usually takes 20-30 minutes.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

A good number of responses have said "I whirlpool it once it's cold". I wonder if that doesn't have an impact on the tightness of the cone (looser) vs whirlpooling hot and leaving it alone. My hot whirlpools have been tighter than when I've tried spinning cold, but there are so many other factors that correlation =/= causation.

See my response above - a great option (if your system allows it) is to recirculate/whirlpool during chilling. Then I take the IC out and whirlpool for a few minutes before giving it a 30 minute settling period.

 

[SanPancho]

Interesting. Youd think the opposite. Colder, denser, less soluble, etc. would let it stick together and compact into a cone better than hot.

I was going to comment that the act of whirlpooling while chilling may be a 1+1=3 situation, cavpilot beat me too it.

 

[Soulshine2]

I whirlpool during chilling. The constant movement of the wort makes the immersion chiller far more effective and faster than the wort sitting stationary. Water (and wort) is actually very self-insulating when it isn't moving, so constantly stirring or whirlpooling when using an immersion chiller is orders of magnitude faster than just letting it sit or occasionally stirring.

So yes, my wort is in a constantly stirred up state from boil temp down to 46F, which usually takes 20-30 minutes.

46*F???

 

[Vale71]

Standard pitching temp for a lager.

 

[Hiltonheadmike]

All good methods so far, now i have many things to try out.

Has anyone used the hopstopper 2.0 they look pretty neat, check this youtube video out If anyone has tried or heard any the good/bad about it please let me and the rest of us know anti trub camp members in on your comments.

I know Hopstopper original did poorly for me....clogged easily and was a bitch to clean!

 

[BrunDog]

I have found whirlpooling and a basic trub damn gets clear wort into the fermenter until the very end when the hop cone starts to get pulled out by the draining liquid. I use 2 stage hybrid style CFC’s to prevent clogging during whirlpool and they chill straight into the fermenter.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Standard pitching temp for a lager.

What he said.
I do about 60-70% lagers.
Chill to 46*F, pitch, and ferment at 48-50 usually.

 

[Spartan1979]

What he said.
I do about 60-70% lagers.
Chill to 46*F, pitch, and ferment at 48-50 usually.

I think the comment was more about the ability to get the temp down to 46 with a chiller than the temp itself.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I think the comment was more about the ability to get the temp down to 46 with a chiller than the temp itself.

Ah, I see.

Use groundwater (hose) through immersion chiller (IC) until it gets down to 90-100*F, then switch the water source to a bucket of ice and water with a submersible pump pushing it through the IC and cycling back into the bucket.
Have to add more ice about halfway through and keep it icy, but pumping ice water through the IC will do the trick nicely.

In my setup I actually use a second IC in the ice bucket as a pre-chiller, to make sure the water going into the main IC goes through 25 feet of copper coil submerged in ice water. That addition is optional, but ensures a fast chill.

 

[BrunDog]

In my setup I actually use a second IC in the ice bucket as a pre-chiller, to make sure the water going into the main IC goes through 25 feet of copper coil submerged in ice water. That addition is optional, but ensures a fast chill.

Pre-chillers are much less effective than secondary chillers. You would be better off chilling through the main IC then through a secondary IC (wort in the inside) rather than pre-chilling your main IC water.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Pre-chillers are much less effective than secondary chillers. You would be better off chilling through the main IC then through a secondary IC (wort in the inside) rather than pre-chilling your main IC water.

There are many ways to skin that cat.
I just use the prechiller becvause I have one from when I went from a copper IC to stainless.

And I don't see any need to change it, because with a couple bags of ice, I can get from boil to lager pitch temp in 30 minutes or less, depending on ambient temp.

I'm just describing one of the ways that I know works, because that's what I do.

 

[BrunDog]

If it works for you and your equipment, that’s cool - was just letting you know in case.

 

[tripeland]

After reading this thread I have become confused as to the identification of cold break and hot break.

During the moments just before the boil is reached, and the early stages of the boil, I see foam gathering on the surface of the wort (see picture). I have assumed this was the hot break that is supposedly bad for yeast/off-flavors, so I skim most of that off.

After the boil I cool the wort with an IC to around room temp. I then use the spigot on the kettle to drain most of the wort to the fermenter. There is some dead space below the kettle spigot which does not get poured in. The liquid that gets left in the kettle looks like this.

I have assumed this was the cold break, which is supposedly good for yeast, so I don't care if some gets in the fermenter (but still not a lot gets in due to the dead space).

Is this correct?

 

[Vale71]

That is all hot break material. What you skim from the surface is just the lighter fraction that will float, the heavier fraction will sink to the bottom at the end of boil. Cold break material is made up of extremely small particles (1/10th the size of a yeast cell) that do not coalesce at all due to their being electrostatically charged. As you cannot see the individual particles they will manifest themselves only in the form of a haze that you can detect best when looking at a backlit sample.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

View attachment 609981

That looks like a lot of hops in that foam - you're not skimming the hops out with it, are you? If so, you should wait to put the hops in until AFTER you skim.

 

[tripeland]

That looks like a lot of hops in that foam - you're not skimming the hops out with it, are you? If so, you should wait to put the hops in until AFTER you skim.

This was just a picture I found on the internet to show what I was talking about. I only add hops after the hot break is either skimmed or falls back into the boiling wort.

I feel like I need to study up on hot/cold break formation and separation now...

 

[jchfl]

I pretty much brew only NEIPAs. About 0.3 oz of hops in the boil, cool to 165-170F with an IC, then ~4 oz of hops in the whirlpool for 30-45 min, then chill to room temp. I run the pump the entire time which pretty much makes certain the hot break is thoroughly mixed into the wort. I transfer to the fermenter with a hop bag cinched around the output end to the tubing...this catches almost all the hop matter, but the trub goes right into the fermenter. As mentioned previously, Brulosophy convinced me to not worry about the trub, and my beer improved dramatically when I started using this process.

Another 12oz or so of hops in the Biotransformation addition and 2 rounds of dry hopping means there is a significant amount of trub/hop matter in the bottom of the fermenter when I transfer to bottling...I use the same hop bag on the output tube end trick here too.

There are so many things we have been told we "have" to do, and IMO keeping trub out of the fermenter is one of them.

 

[JHulen]

I know Hopstopper original did poorly for me....clogged easily and was a bitch to clean!

I have a hopstopper 2.0 and I’ve got to say I’m disappointed. I use it on a gravity system, but I think it’s really designed to be used with a pump. Every batch I’ve used it on has clogged. The last batch I had to sanitize my arm and reach in to disconnect it. It was my last resort but I couldn’t get it flowing no matter what I did.

 

[schematix]

filters clog. that's how they work. you'd need an unfathomably large surface area to effectively filter an average size batch, let alone a hoppy beer or larger batch. best bet is whirlpool, a long settle, and rack above the crap.

 

[augiedoggy]

I filter at multiple stages along the brewing process and that works great for my home system. recirculating the mash is one way to filter it... then I use 1 or 2 hop spiders and the filter on my dip tube as the last chance filter before the plate chiller...
If a person makes a lot of hoppy beers vs a person who makes a lot of all the other styles they are going to have the hardest time with hop trub residue.

 

[chieftain]

So for my next brewday, I was planning on placing a clean Wilser brew bag (I BIAB in a cooler) inside my conical, and transferring the wort onto it. Then, pull up the brew bag and remove it to capture the trub.

Unless the trub would be too fine to be captured by the bag?

 

[Jako]

So for my next brewday, I was planning on placing a clean Wilser brew bag (I BIAB in a cooler) inside my conical, and transferring the wort onto it. Then, pull up the brew bag and remove it to capture the trub.

Unless the trub would be too fine to be captured by the bag?

that's a good idea. you might get some material but if you plan to dry hop or use it during fermenting i bet the yeast will settle in the bag combined with the hops it would clog up the bag.

I have a funnel with a filter on it. combine that with my dish kettle and i can keep almost all hops and hot break material out of the run off.

 

[z-bob]

So for my next brewday, I was planning on placing a clean Wilser brew bag (I BIAB in a cooler) inside my conical, and transferring the wort onto it. Then, pull up the brew bag and remove it to capture the trub.

Unless the trub would be too fine to be captured by the bag?

You will get almost all the hop matter and a lot of the protein break. A little with get through but I'm not convinced that's a bad thing.

 

[chieftain]

that's a good idea. you might get some material but if you plan to dry hop or use it during fermenting i bet the yeast will settle in the bag combined with the hops it would clog up the bag.

I have a funnel with a filter on it. combine that with my dish kettle and i can keep almost all hops and hot break material out of the run off.

Sorry, I should clarified that I would pull the bag before oxygenating the wort and pitching the yeast.

 

[chieftain]

You will get almost all the hop matter and a lot of the protein break. A little with get through but I'm not convinced that's a bad thing.

Sweet, that would be a big improvement over my previous practices.

 

[augiedoggy]

h

So for my next brewday, I was planning on placing a clean Wilser brew bag (I BIAB in a cooler) inside my conical, and transferring the wort onto it. Then, pull up the brew bag and remove it to capture the trub.

Unless the trub would be too fine to be captured by the bag?

ave you tried jusy waiting an hour for the trub to settle into the cone and dumping it out the bottom valve? thats what I do at the brewery if theres a lot.

 

[processhead]

So for my next brewday, I was planning on placing a clean Wilser brew bag (I BIAB in a cooler) inside my conical, and transferring the wort onto it. Then, pull up the brew bag and remove it to capture the trub.

Unless the trub would be too fine to be captured by the bag?

I think your bag would catch some trub doing this. What is your method of sanitizing a grain bag that is going to be in contact with your cooled wort?