How to get head without ruining my relationship?

[BmillaTheBrewzilla]

My relationship with bottles, that is.

So I'm about 15 batches in on this freakish obsession and I've bottled every batch. I don't find it to be too big of a pain and I've been very happy with the bottle conditioned results.

What I've noticed is this: I don't get much head AT ALL on my beers unless I use cara-pils or a good amount of wheat. I'm brewing all grain. When I use two row plus some crystal malts, I get very little head, no matter what style of beer.

My suspicion is that if I were kegging, I'd be getting quite a bit more head. So my question to you bottlers is, what do you do to increase the head on your beer? I could use cara-pils with every batch... but it gives a certain foaminess that I'm not crazy about. It doesn't bug me, but I've enjoyed my batches without it a little more. They have been nicely carbonated, but I'd like to take them to the next level with some sexy head.

 

[marubozo]

What are you using to clean your bottles and other brewing equipment?

 

[BmillaTheBrewzilla]

What are you using to clean your bottles and other brewing equipment?

Star San. I definitely have done batches that consistently pour with awesome head- but these have all had cara-pils. One heady batch I brewed didn't have cara-pils, but it did have four pounds of wheat.

 

[marubozo]

You're cleaning with starsan, or just sanitizing with it?

 

[dfc]

You could try using more priming sugar.

 

[FirefighterSR2]

You're cleaning with starsan, or just sanitizing with it?

+1

StarSan definitely isn't designed as a cleaning agent. A lot of folks on here have very good luck with PBW (same company that makes StarSan) or OxyClean Free.

Common dish soaps can leave residue on both glassware (serving) and brewing equipment that has a very negative effect on head formation and retention. Avoid them at all cost...

Finally take a look at your mash temp. Proteases and peptidases are still active in the 149-152F ranges. If your mash is at or below those temps for an extended period of time those enzymes are probably altering some of the proteins that would otherwise contribute to head retention.

 

[Pommy]

+1 on the mash temps been the likely issue provided your cleaning method isn't the problem. Iv'e read somewhere before that some brewers consider the need for carapils to be a weakness of brewers not been able to control their mash temps. Also I dont know how kegging will be any different? If you want it more carbed then you can just use more priming sugar. Hows the lacing in the glass and retention?

 

[Andy_LV]

what kind of water you use for brewing?
If its really hard, your beer will bubble up and then loose head quickly, have you tried using RO filtered water?

 

[FirefighterSR2]

Finally take a look at your mash temp. Proteases and peptidases are still active in the 149-152F ranges. If your mash is at or below those temps for an extended period of time those enzymes are probably altering some of the proteins that would otherwise contribute to head retention.

I forgot to add that the added enzyme activity may be taking place outside the mash as well, specifically if you see a large temp drop during sparging. A mash-out of 170F+ will denature just about all the enzymes and lock in dextrin and protein content.

 

[KeithMoonsLiver]

+1

StarSan definitely isn't designed as a cleaning agent. A lot of folks on here have very good luck with PBW (same company that makes StarSan) or OxyClean Free.
.

star san is mostly phosphoric acid- a detergent commonly used to remove beerstone and protein + yeast deposits. It might not be "designed" as a cleaner, but it is one. if something is really dirty, it would be a good idea to use two different batches of star san to clean and then sanitize.

 

[FirefighterSR2]

star san is mostly phosphoric acid- a detergent commonly used to remove beerstone and protein + yeast deposits. It might not be "designed" as a cleaner, but it is one. if something is really dirty, it would be a good idea to use two different batches of star san to clean and then sanitize.

Agreed...however my understanding is that the pH required to use phosphoric acid as a cleaning agent (0.5-2) is quite a bit lower than the range that StarSan operates in (2.5-3)

Please correct me if I'm wrong?

 

[koomber]

Starsan cleans and sanitises by not only the phosphoric acid. It also contains (among other things) a surfactant called DDBSA (dodecyl benzene sulfonic acid) which aids greatly in cleaning (and in killing miceobeasties).

Just to clarify as well, The levels of phosphoric acid in diluted starsan are pretty small, not 100% certain on the levels though. If Phosphoric acid is being used for cleaning beer stones, it isn't cleaning per say but it is actually dissolving it. You could (but SHOULDN'T) use almost any acid for removing beer stones and it will work.

 

[elkdog]

Try giving your bottles an oxyclean soak, just to see if there's a difference. It works well, and is cheaper than StarSan anyway- can't hurt. Just the get the OxyClean free- no fragrances or anything.

How long do you refrigerate your beer before drinking it? If you give them a few days in the fridge before drinking, more of the particles (there's a better word, and I forgot it) drop out, leaving a clearer beer that holds its head a little better.

 

[nickmv]

For a minute there, from your title, I thought you might be asking for something a little more "personal".

 

[Andy_LV]

For a minute there, from your title, I thought you might be asking for something a little more "personal".

hehe, Im glad Im not the only pervert lurking here

 

[pjj2ba]

Are you brewing higher ABV beers? It is harder to get a good head the higher the alcohol content.


Although................, the higher ABV might work better for the other kind of head

 

[jamesjensen1068]

I went through the same thing with my extract beers too. I racked my brain trying to figure out what I was doing wrong in my brewing. What I decided to do was start with the simple stuff. I stopped running my beer glasses through the dishwasher, only wash by hand and really rinse well. I also do a hard pour with my beers into the glass. And now I have much better, longer lasting head on my beer. Also I noticed that if my beer glass is chilled at the same temp as the bottle the head is much improved.

Cheers

 

[joeldp144]

I am not sure switching from bottling to kegging would help either. I have made that transition in the last 6 months. What I have found is that you can absolutely control the amount of INITIAL head on your pour, but if you don't have wheat or carapils or something that provides retention, then it will quickly dissipate.

I brewed a nut brown ale that didn't have any head retention grains in it. I can turn my pressure way up on the keg, and the glass will practically fill with foam. But, it won't hold the head. The carbonation level is fine, but it just won't hold the head.

I just wanted to clarify initial head vs. head retention.

 

[Hannable1975]

Not to create any ruckus - but isn't there an additive that can be used to improve "head"? Seems like I just saw that in a different thread yesterday, but do not recall what it was called / chemical name..

 

[doobliebop]

Isn't unmalted wheat as an ingredient supposed to improve head retention?
(I know this isn't the answer Hannable is looking for though)

 

[nanofreak]

hehe, Im glad Im not the only pervert lurking here

I came in here with an answer that would have been waaaay off topic.

 

[nanofreak]

Not to create any ruckus - but isn't there an additive that can be used to improve "head"? Seems like I just saw that in a different thread yesterday, but do not recall what it was called / chemical name..

You can use something like Muntons Kreamy X which I think has DME as well as the additives you are talking about. Or just go for the additive which is propylene glycol.

 

[BmillaTheBrewzilla]

Wow- lots of posts since I last checked this. Here are some of my thoughts-

I don't think it is an issue with my cleaning process. I do soak all my bottles and most of my equipment in OxyClean Free before sanitizing with Star San. Also, I have had batches (using the same cleaning process that I use for the batches lacking head) that have had nice foaminess that stays on the beer for awhile.

I also don't think it is my glasses, for the same reason- certain batches get great head.

The reason I thought kegging might make a difference is that many commercial beers seem to have much greater initial head and head retention on tap vs. from a bottle.

I am brewing all grain, and most of my beers have mashed between 151 and 154. I think it would be safe to say that when I have hit 154, the temp has probably dropped a couple degrees throughout the mash. I will have to try mashing a little higher to see if that makes a difference. It seems like on most of the recipes I've looked at, typical mashing temps seem to be between 150 and 154. Do any of you regularly mash higher? It is totally possible that my thermometer isn't completely accurate as well.

Lots of interesting responses. I really appreciate all the suggestions. :rockin:

 

[FirefighterSR2]

As someone that makes a lot of Jamil's recipes, I tend to mash around the 154F mark. My mash tun usually loses 1 degree during the process. I don't mash out, but I do sparge a little hot, usually around 172. To date I haven't had any issues with head formation/retention, and don't alter the recipe to assist in the process. Hope that helps!

 

[vasvas]

+1 for thread title !

 

[elkdog]

I am brewing all grain, and most of my beers have mashed between 151 and 154. I think it would be safe to say that when I have hit 154, the temp has probably dropped a couple degrees throughout the mash. I will have to try mashing a little higher to see if that makes a difference. It seems like on most of the recipes I've looked at, typical mashing temps seem to be between 150 and 154. Do any of you regularly mash higher? It is totally possible that my thermometer isn't completely accurate as well.

One thing that Jamil and others say about mash temp is that variations in equipment, thermometers, etc. can mean that what he gets from mashing at 150 is not what I get from mashing at 150. The results he describes from mashing at 150 are what I get from mashing at 152-153, and I'm not sure exactly why. I just go ahead and adjust my mash temps up- you're not going to ruin a beer with a minor adjustment like that, and and it's made my beers better. Lagunitas mashes everything at 160, a fact I take as free license to play with mash temps to suit my liking, and my system.

 

[Bob]

This strikes me as a mash process problem, too. A definitive answer will depend on facts such as type/brand of pale malt, exact mash process, temperatures, etc., but I can offer a few tips which might improve your foam retention.

Foam retention is predicated on malt proteins. Some malts have higher proteins than others. Foam retention is a big problem in high-adjunct pale lagers, so there's a lot of research and practical, empirical knowledge out there for the taking.

Depending on what type of pale malt you're using for the bulk of the grist, you may find a short protein rest in the 50C range beneficial. About ten minutes should do it. Stepped-temperature mashes are just as easy as single-infusion mashes, so don't worry; here's how I often do it. Mash in thick initially with your pale malt only at your 50C rest. When it comes time to ramp up to the higher temperature, use boiling water to get your next rest temperature, then add your specialty/other grains as a 'brake' on the temperature rise. You don't really want to use cold water to brake the rise, as that risks too soupy a mash. I typically do a 50/60/70C mash program, with intervals of 10/30/30 minutes. I typically use American/Canadian 2-row pale malt

Another method is to just add some wheat malt. 4 ounces or so per five gallons won't affect flavor or clarity, and should add enough excess protein to promote foam retention.

Oh, yeah, and hand-wash your glassware.

Have fun and good luck!

Bob

Reference

 

[LCTitan]

Love the title of this thread. I have very good success just using the jet washer that attaches to the sink with very hot water for cleaning. I sanitize with Starsan using the pumper device (can't remember the name of that thing) just before bottling. I also jet wash to rinse again before I sanitize due to the bottles laying around for some time. I havn't had the need to actually wash the bottles with any type of soap.

I use Oxyclean Free to clean and remove labels for those times I endulge in the great Microbrews out there.

 

[elkdog]

This strikes me as a mash process problem, too. A definitive answer will depend on facts such as type/brand of pale malt, exact mash process, temperatures, etc., but I can offer a few tips which might improve your foam retention.

Foam retention is predicated on malt proteins. Some malts have higher proteins than others. Foam retention is a big problem in high-adjunct pale lagers, so there's a lot of research and practical, empirical knowledge out there for the taking.

Depending on what type of pale malt you're using for the bulk of the grist, you may find a short protein rest in the 50C range beneficial. About ten minutes should do it. Stepped-temperature mashes are just as easy as single-infusion mashes, so don't worry; here's how I often do it. Mash in thick initially with your pale malt only at your 50C rest. When it comes time to ramp up to the higher temperature, use boiling water to get your next rest temperature, then add your specialty/other grains as a 'brake' on the temperature rise. You don't really want to use cold water to brake the rise, as that risks too soupy a mash. I typically do a 50/60/70C mash program, with intervals of 10/30/30 minutes. I typically use American/Canadian 2-row pale malt

Another method is to just add some wheat malt. 4 ounces or so per five gallons won't affect flavor or clarity, and should add enough excess protein to promote foam retention.

Oh, yeah, and hand-wash your glassware.

Have fun and good luck!

Bob

Reference

I love when I start thinking I know some stuff, and then Bob comes and takes me to school. The knowledge base on this forum is ridiculous, and fantastic.

 

[pjj2ba]

I second Bob's advice. I like to mash in low, and then go through several temperature rests to create the wort to match the style I'm looking for. Or in other words, one malt (mashed at a single temp) does not fit all beer styles. It can be a decent compromise, but I believe to get the most out of your malts, step mashes can make a big difference in many beer styles.

As Bob said, head formation is largely dependent on the amount and nature of the proteins in the wort. Whether you mash at 147 F or 156 F is not going to have a large affect on the proteins in the wort. Any of the proteases in the malt will have been deactivated at typical saccharification temps. You'll likely get a few more dextrins the higher you mash which might help a little with head retention (these will definitely add mouth feel though), but messing with the proteins will have a much bigger impact.