How much yeast for 10G batches

[Dave R]

I am thinking of starting to brew 10 gallon batches and was wondering do most of you use double the yeast (dry) or just stay with a single packet?

 

[DrinksWellWithOthers]

Check out this yeast pitching rate calculator.


Mr Malty

 

[bladefist]

I'm a newb, and you shouldnt take advice from newbs. But I pitch a 5 gallon yeast packet of wyeast into my 10gallon. Yeast will create more yeasties. yeast babies, and it seems to get the job done. A starter will help too, but I never needed to do that

 

[flyangler18]

I'm a newb, and you shouldnt take advice from newbs. But I pitch a 5 gallon yeast packet of wyeast into my 10gallon. Yeast will create more yeasties. yeast babies, and it seems to get the job done. A starter will help too, but I never needed to do that

Then why offer it? A single smack-pack (which optimally contains 100 billion cells but often contains less as a function of declining freshness) for 10 gallons is drastically underpitching.

 

[wildwest450]

I am thinking of starting to brew 10 gallon batches and was wondering do most of you use double the yeast (dry) or just stay with a single packet?

To answer your question, yes pitch 2 packets of dry yeast in a 10 gallon batch. If you split the batches into two separate containers wouldn't you pitch one packet in each one? According to Mr. Malty this will work up to a 1.060 beer.

 

[Dave R]

To answer your question, yes pitch 2 packets of dry yeast in a 10 gallon batch. If you split the batches into two separate containers wouldn't you pitch one packet in each one?

Thanks. That's what logic was telling me but sometimes things are not as they seem.

 

[bladefist]

Then why offer it? A single smack-pack (which optimally contains 100 billion cells but often contains less as a function of declining freshness) for 10 gallons is drastically underpitching.

Because it works, and works well. My 10 gallon fully fermented. Therefore, I pitched enough. Thanks.

 

[flyangler18]

Because it works, and works well. My 10 gallon fully fermented. Therefore, I pitched enough. Thanks.

Fully fermented is one thing, making the best beer you can is quite another. The simple fact of the matter is that you didn't pitch enough according to Fix, Daniels, JZ, Noonan, etc. This is well-documented in the literature if you'd like to verify that for yourself.

There seems to be a troubling trend on here recently of people thumbing their noses at the best practice of pitching an appropriate amount of yeast relative to the OG of the wort (other proven best practices are similarly discarded). Why that is, I don't know; I do know that it irks me.

 

[wildwest450]

Because it works, and works well. My 10 gallon fully fermented. Therefore, I pitched enough. Thanks.

Please post your recipe, og, fg, and type of yeast used.

 

[BrewinHog]

Then why offer it? A single smack-pack (which optimally contains 100 billion cells but often contains less as a function of declining freshness) for 10 gallons is drastically underpitching.

No need to be an a$$.

 

[wildwest450]

No need to be an a$$.

How was he being an ass? Someone offered advice that was wrong, and basically stated he didn't know what he was talking about. There is no need to offer advice to someone unless you have experience backing you up. How is it of any benefit to give someone the wrong advice?

 

[bladefist]

How was he being an ass? Someone offered advice that was wrong, and basically stated he didn't know what he was talking about. There is no need to offer advice to someone unless you have experience backing you up. How is it of any benefit to give someone the wrong advice?

I have experience that it works, and I was being modest and calling myself a newb. You should know everyone here brews differently and has different ways of doing different things. All ways result into beer. And ya, you do sound like an a$$.

OP - Sorry, the masses say I'm wrong. If you pitch a 5 gallon yeast packet into 10 gallons, the yeasties have panic attacks and start offing themselves.

 

[evandam]

How was he being an ass? Someone offered advice that was wrong, and basically stated he didn't know what he was talking about. There is no need to offer advice to someone unless you have experience backing you up. How is it of any benefit to give someone the wrong advice?

Everyone CHILL!!!! He offered a newb opinion, which he clearly pointed out. We all know you are right and you should pitch 2 vials/packets and use a starter with the vials if you are anywhere close to 1.060, but dang he even pointed out you should not take the advice of newbs. Relax.

 

[polecreek]

How was he being an ass? Someone offered advice that was wrong, and basically stated he didn't know what he was talking about. There is no need to offer advice to someone unless you have experience backing you up. How is it of any benefit to give someone the wrong advice?

Not trying to be an a## but sometimes those who are in the know do not respond to us fledgelings, and any advice, even if it is wrong is appreciated. At least someone is listening

 

[evandam]

Not trying to be an a## but sometimes those who are in the know do not respond to us fledgelings, and any advice, even if it is wrong is appreciated. At least someone is listening

Agreed. I still don't like newbs posting opinions about stuff they have no idea on and stating it as FACT, but bladefist was giving an opinion on something he had experience with and it worked for him. Now a lot of us know that it is less than optimal. I think a simple rebuttal without the (Why offer it quote) would have been fine. Case closed. Maybe someone just had a rough day.

 

[wildwest450]

I have experience that it works, and I was being modest and calling myself a newb. You should know everyone here brews differently and has different ways of doing different things. All ways result into beer. And ya, you do sound like an a$$.

OP - Sorry, the masses say I'm wrong. If you pitch a 5 gallon yeast packet into 10 gallons, the yeasties have panic attacks and start offing themselves.

If you can read, I wasn't the one being called an ass. And why call yourself a n00b if your not? I believe your advice gives you away. And their certainly are many ways in which to brew. But your advice was not a sound technique, im sorry if you feel differently. And this isn't the 3rd grade, it isn't necessary to resort to name calling.

 

[wildwest450]

Not trying to be an a## but sometimes those who are in the know do not respond to us fledgelings, and any advice, even if it is wrong is appreciated. At least someone is listening

Don't feel that way, I think most of the experienced brewers here (im not putting myself in this category) do a good job of helping new brewers out.

 

[polecreek]

You guys better watch it, they will throw you in the debate forum and reccomend you not go their anymore. Just kidding, I got a little attitude last night and now need to behave. But really guys lets chug a mug and agree to disagree.

 

[evandam]

I just edited that last post out, just getting out of hand. I don't disagree with pitching double, just the keen responses.

 

[RC0032]

OP - Sorry, the masses say I'm wrong. If you pitch a 5 gallon yeast packet into 10 gallons, the yeasties have panic attacks and start offing themselves.

thats funny...I like your style!

to the OP listen to this -> The Brewing Network.com - :

and use this -> Mr Malty Pitching Rate Calculator

 

[BrewinJack]

Heres what i know. For brews less then 1.060, (and that doesnt mean that if your at 1.059 your golden with this, you should use more with higher gravity)

One packet of dry yeast forumlated for 5 gallons has about 30 billion potential yeast cells... but due to long term storage and enviorment change and statis death rate, etc etc, it is assumed that only half of them are viable that ok for a 5 gallon batch because the extra food fomulated in a dry yeast pack allows for good breeding for the first 24-36 hours and that brings up the cell count without stress. So the rule of thumb is that you should seperate into two 5 gallon fermenters and pinch in one packet a piece

That being said the considered optimal yeast cell count balanceing birth and death in a 5 gallon batch is about 90 -120 billion cells... with one packet of dry yeast you get this in the first 3-4 days without yeast stress, with liquid yeast you have either a 100 billion yeast cell (activator) pack or a 25 billion (porpagator) pack (these are actully brand names used by Wyeast but most other liquid companys work the same way just use differnt names) and you make a starter for 24 - 48 hours and that gives you cell counts of upwards of 100 - 150 billion (in a 2 quart starter) which is more then enough for a 5 gallon batch...

So for ten gallon batches (which are not divided) you should either make a larger starter with liquid yeast (1-1.5gal with recamended sugar/extract for 36+ hours) or you should use 2 packages of dry yeast. You can use 2 large cell count liquid yeast packs (100 billion cells each) but you should make two starters as you would with a single 5 gallon starter

There is such things as under pinching which causes a condition known as yeast stress which causes the yeast to imporperly ferment or not efficently ferment certin sugars and can produce off flavors, stalling, and increased sediment. Under pinching is common and most often harmless with dry yeast, but is a larger problem with liquid yeast or larger volumes of wort at higher grav.

Over pinching can also be a problem, it is again mostly harmless with dry yeast but with liquid yeast can cause off flavors, incompelet fermentation, off flavors due to fermentation of unfermentable sugars, and increase sediment. Also one he doesnt mention, if your trying to control fermentation with cold crash it definatly makes it tougher i learned from personal experience

I got all of this stright from the pages of "The Home Brewer's Answer Book"... that is without the spelling errors because i am not copying verbatium am i useing summerized notes

Cheers

 

[flyangler18]

No need to be an a$$.

There was nothing arsey about my query. Bladefist admitted being a 'newb' and proceeded to give bad advice that contradicts established literature about pitching rates. Fact- pitching a single Wyeast XL smackpack or White Labs vial into 10 gallons of wort is underpitching. That's all.

Some comments,
Jason

 

[Bob]

Oh, goodie! One of my pet subjects: yeast management!

Heres what i know. For brews less then 1.060, (and that doesnt mean that if your at 1.059 your golden with this, you should use more with higher gravity)

Good advice.

One packet of dry yeast forumlated for 5 gallons has about 30 billion potential yeast cells... but due to long term storage and enviorment change and statis death rate, etc etc, it is assumed that only half of them are viable that ok for a 5 gallon batch because the extra food fomulated in a dry yeast pack allows for good breeding for the first 24-36 hours and that brings up the cell count without stress. So the rule of thumb is that you should seperate into two 5 gallon fermenters and pinch in one packet a piece

Unfortunately, while that might have been the case in years past it is no longer accurate. Modern dried yeasts from such manufacturers as Fermentis and Danstar are very good indeed, with excellent viability. I have yet to find a (fresh, mind!) packet of modern dry yeasts with cell counts of less than 19 billion active cells per gram; my average, borne out by JZ and others, is 20 billion. In a 11g packet, that's 220 billion active cells. Moreover, viability doesn't start to drop off until well past the freshness date on the package, regardless of handling.

That being said the considered optimal yeast cell count balancing birth and death in a 5 gallon batch is about 90 -120 billion cells... with one packet of dry yeast you get this in the first 3-4 days without yeast stress, with liquid yeast you have either a 100 billion yeast cell (activator) pack or a 25 billion (porpagator) pack (these are actully brand names used by Wyeast but most other liquid companys work the same way just use differnt names) and you make a starter for 24 - 48 hours and that gives you cell counts of upwards of 100 - 150 billion (in a 2 quart starter) which is more then enough for a 5 gallon batch...

There's a mix of accurate and inaccurate information in this paragraph.

It is true that Activator (XL) smack packs contain on average 100 billion cells. White Labs vials also average 100 billion cells. It is not true, however, that 100-150 billion cells is an optimum pitch rate. On the contrary, the Rule of Thumb is 1 million active cells per ml of wort per degree Plato. That means, for five gallons of wort of OG 1048, approximately 225 billion cells. This amount can be reduced for ales to good effect, and must be increased for lager beers, but is accurate enough for our purposes.

And that's not saturation, either; at that pitch rate, the colony will execute an optimal amount of budding generations - 3 to 4 - with a commeasurate increase in cell count. That rate is generally reached, with proper aeration and pitch rates, within 24 hours.

So for ten gallon batches (which are not divided) you should either make a larger starter with liquid yeast (1-1.5gal with recamended sugar/extract for 36+ hours) or you should use 2 packages of dry yeast. You can use 2 large cell count liquid yeast packs (100 billion cells each) but you should make two starters as you would with a single 5 gallon starter

As I wrote above, two 11g packets of dry yeast are suitable for a wort of ~1048. Two XL smack packs are barely sufficient to ferment five gallons of 1048 wort, and is less than half of that required to properly inoculate ten.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[hammer one]

Here's something to try, split your wort in two, add 1yeast strain in one and another in the other one. You'll wind up with two kinds of beer.