How much nutrient to add? Should I trust Wyeast?

[Undead8]

Most mead recipes I’ve seen recommend adding between 2.5 to 4 tsp of nutrients (DAP and Ferment K), at different moments of the fermentation.

There is no Ferment K at my homebrew store, so I bought Wyeast wine nutrient. These nutrients are advertised for wine, mead, and such. My understanding is that it combines both DAP and Ferment K.

However, it says on the bottle to add 1/2 tsp for a 5 gallons batch. That’s much less than what I’ve seen on the internet.

What should I do? Add 3 staggered tsp? Or just 1/2 tsp?

 

[LBussy]

Use what the manufacturer recommends. If it gets sluggish on you, you can do another dosage.

 

[Arpolis]

1/2 a tsp for a 5 gallon batch? What did you buy again? I want to see this lol. I could see that being used like a "test energizer" and be at a ratio of 1/2 tsp/gallon but not per 5 gallon.

Depending on the yeast I go in between 1-2 tsp per gallon of nutrients split over 3 additions. Usually more up front than the following additions. Example: 3tsp at yeast pitch and 1 tsp twice more over the first 5-7 days.

 

[TandemTails]

1/2 a tsp for a 5 gallon batch? What did you buy again? I want to see this lol. I could see that being used like a "test energizer" and be at a ratio of 1/2 tsp/gallon but not per 5 gallon.

Depending on the yeast I go in between 1-2 tsp per gallon of nutrients split over 3 additions. Usually more up front than the following additions. Example: 3tsp at yeast pitch and 1 tsp twice more over the first 5-7 days.

I have some of the Wyeast Beer Nutrient Blend and it has the same dosage... 1/2 tsp per 5 gallons. I'm not sure why or what's in it (no ingredients listed on the bottle and I haven't tried a thorough search online).

I just ended up buying Fermaid-O, Fermaid-K and DAP and will be using the nutrient addition calculator found in this https://docs.google.com/document/d/11pW-dC91OupCYKX-zld73ckg9ximXwxbmpLFOqv6JEk/edit whitepaper

 

[Undead8]

If anyone read this thread in the future, here is the answer Wyeast sent me about their wine nutrient.

Hi XXXXX,
1/2Tsp is a baseline that was determined for wine fermentations. Mead is a different beast, and therefore the same 'rules' don't apply. There is very little Nitrogen available in mead, which leads to sluggish and stressed fermentations. Honestly what you have read online is not out of the ordinary. I know when I make a batch of mead, I usually hit it with 1-2 Tsp (depending on the starting gravity) when I pitch the yeast, then again with the same amount about 3 days into fermentation, when the airlock is very active.

Cheers!

XXXXXX
Microbiologist/Production Laboratory Technician Wyeast Laboratories, Inc.

 

[Arpolis]

Ha that makes sense. Thanks for the follow up.

 

[LBussy]

Arpolis! Long time no see! I have a Wench's Wine in the primary right now.

 

[Arpolis]

Arpolis! Long time no see! I have a Wench's Wine in the primary right now.

Haha yea been a while. I stopped posting for a while. Lots of moving and other things going on. Gotta love then wench's wine! I just bottled raspberry version the other day that is some 9+ months old I think. So good.

 

[Nate]

So I also contacted Wyeast because I wanted to know the difference between their wine and beer yeast nutrient. I included in this the question about dosing for mead.

The response was that the wine and beer yeast nutrients are exactly the same and the dosage is the same for everything. Obviously, at least one person there is completely wrong... lol.

Update. After a couple more email exchanges, they finally confirmed that mead would require a lot more nutrient.

 

[dmtaylor]

You might like to think I'm trolling but I'm really not. I've been making mead since some of ya's were still in elementary school.

I never cease to be amazed by the absurdity of this topic. People have been making mead, cider, and wine for thousands of years, but someone in the 20th century suddenly decides that nutrients are required to make good stuff, and you can't add them all at once but need to feed them slowly, etc. Well... I for one call baloney. Your meads and ciders will turn out great without any nutrients.

I'm a simple guy, and I'm lazy. As such I skip stuff that doesn't matter. Nutrient additions, staggered or not, really don't matter in my experience.

Gelatin, on the other hand, can be a very wonderful thing for cleanup at the end. Gelatin performs miracles. But anyway.

In the end, we're all making tasty stuff, so why should we really care how one another are getting to that end result. We can all get there by whichever process.

So, enjoy your staggered additions everyone. I'll enjoy yours, and if you're in the area, you're welcome to enjoy mine.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Beneficial and required are two different things.

Likewise, you can make beer without paying attention to mash temps, pitch rates, or fermentation temps. Will it come out as intended? Maybe, maybe not. Will your consistency benefit from paying attention to those things? Yes.

I for one don't have the luxury of aging mead for years before I can drink it, so I started with a session style of the BOMM recipe. ~8%, with staggered nutrients and an appropriate pitching rate. At 5 weeks, it was a tiny bit hot but very drinkable. I've tasted other guys meads, especially new mazers, that didn't use staggered nutrients, degas, or control their ferm temps and for the majority of them it was in the rocket fuel area.

 

[dmtaylor]

Beneficial and required are two different things.

Likewise, you can make beer without paying attention to mash temps, pitch rates, or fermentation temps. Will it come out as intended? Maybe, maybe not. Will your consistency benefit from paying attention to those things? Yes.

I for one don't have the luxury of aging mead for years before I can drink it, so I started with a session style of the BOMM recipe. ~8%, with staggered nutrients and an appropriate pitching rate. At 5 weeks, it was a tiny bit hot but very drinkable. I've tasted other guys meads, especially new mazers, that didn't use staggered nutrients, degas, or control their ferm temps and for the majority of them it was in the rocket fuel area.

I should send you some of this. At wine cooler strength, it's anything but rocket fuel. I did hit it with gelatin and coldness when it was in the mid 1.000s, so it's even got a touch of sweetness left naturally. No sorbate or sulfites or anything added, nothing but the gelatin. She turned out clear as crystal, a real beauty.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=24611.msg314213#msg314213

 

[pricelessbrewing]

I should send you some of this. At wine cooler strength, it's anything but rocket fuel. I did hit it with gelatin and coldness when it was in the mid 1.000s, so it's even got a touch of sweetness left naturally. No sorbate or sulfites or anything added, nothing but the gelatin. She turned out clear as crystal, a real beauty.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=24611.msg314213#msg314213

That's totally believable at 1.057 OG. I wouldn't worry too much about that either, it's the mead that'll get you. Most mead is a significant amount over that.

I"ve never had cider or cyser that was hot, and wasn't at least 9%. Sulfury yes, but that usually ages out. But mead, I've had rocket fuel mead more often than not.