How much do you alter wine kits?

[Mark Kissel]

I have been making kits for about 6 months now with OK results. I now have recently invested in good equipment to measure TA, PH, and SO2 levels. The question is, do you make adjustments to red wine kits? My understanding is that good high end kits are pretty much good to go, but do you adjust TA or PH levels during the process? Is this a personal tast thing?
Just curious what others do, would I improve things or just screw them up.

Thanks for the input

Mark

 

[RPh_Guy]

I don't have a lot of experience with kits but your questions are easy

Altering TA is personal taste. The kit makers probably already adjusted it to something reasonable.

Sulfite level should be adjusted based on your process. You want 0.6-0.8ppm molecular SO2 present at the time when you'll start drinking it, and under 100ppm free SO2.

PH only needs to be adjusted if required for reaching target molecular SO2 levels.

You may use a different yeast strain based on personal taste, and potentially use yeast nutrients if the desired strain has a higher nitrogen requirement.

I have added my own oak cubes with good success.

Other stuff like properly rehydrating the yeast, controlling temperature, and using RO or distilled water is just good practice, even though the kit instructions may not mention it.

Cheers

 

[Mark Kissel]

Thanks RPh, good stuff. Only thing thats confusing in your reply is the PH. My understanding is the PPM SO2 desired is directly proportional to the PH of the wine. Your statement seams to state to adjust the PH to a level that requires .6 to .8 SO2 level at bottling. Am I misunderstanding you correctly?
Thanks
Mark

 

[RPh_Guy]

My understanding is the PPM SO2 desired is directly proportional to the PH of the wine.

The amount of free sulfite (technically bisulfite ion) is not dependent on pH (within reason). Free sulfite protects against oxidation.

The amount of molecular SO2 is dependent on pH. Molecular SO2 protects against unwanted microbial activity. If the pH is too high (above 3.8), you may need to adjust it downward a little bit, which will increase the proportion of molecular SO2. If the pH is under 3.8, it should not need an adjustment.

Basically, there's some amount of total sulfite in the wine (which you can't measure), and a fraction of that is free sulfite (which you can measure), and a small fraction of that is molecular SO2, which is based on pH (which you can calculate based on free sulfite and pH).

.6 to .8 SO2 level at bottling.

Some sulfite will be neutralized during and after the bottling process. Your ultimate goal is about 0.6ppm molecular SO2 at the time the wine is consumed, so it may be higher at the time of bottling. Adjust the amount of free sulfite to hit the target molecular SO2.

It's highly unlikely that you would ever need to adjust the pH upward with a kit. This would only ever need to be done if the pH were too low for a healthy fermentation.

I know this is difficult to understand. Hope this helps.

 

[Seamonkey84]

I asked the same question a couple weeks ago. I asked since it’s my first kit, but already have some experience making fruit wine and melomels. I’m going to change the yeast up, probably step feed some more nutrients. I’m most likely going to split the batch and add honey to part of it to make a pyment. I think the other alterations for a quality kit, would be to the oak selection and time of addition. I’m going to go with the included oak chips as instructed, but maybe add xoaker or cubes in secondary if needed.

 

[Brooothru]

The amount of free sulfite (technically bisulfite ion) is not dependent on pH (within reason). Free sulfite protects against oxidation.

The amount of molecular SO2 is dependent on pH. Molecular SO2 protects against unwanted microbial activity. If the pH is too high (above 3.8), you may need to adjust it downward a little bit, which will increase the proportion of molecular SO2. If the pH is under 3.8, it should not need an adjustment.

Basically, there's some amount of total sulfite in the wine (which you can't measure), and a fraction of that is free sulfite (which you can measure), and a small fraction of that is molecular SO2, which is based on pH (which you can calculate based on free sulfite and pH).

Some sulfite will be neutralized during and after the bottling process. Your ultimate goal is about 0.6ppm molecular SO2 at the time the wine is consumed, so it may be higher at the time of bottling. Adjust the amount of free sulfite to hit the target molecular SO2.

It's highly unlikely that you would ever need to adjust the pH upward with a kit. This would only ever need to be done if the pH were too low for a healthy fermentation.

I know this is difficult to understand. Hope this helps.

Excellent description, and quite easy to understand as you explained it!

Brooo Brother

 

[Mark Kissel]

Thanks again guys. One thing I have learned about this hobby is there are TOOOOOOO many variables. Thing you have it figured out with one wine, a the next one kicks you but. As they say in racing, everything matters. At least in this hobby, the failures are not too bad to consume.

Another quick simple (i hope) question, Do you rack during MLF? From what I have read, more than a thin layer of lees is not good. I have racked twice, than started MLF, lees are about an inch in a 6 gal carboy. Seems like output of CO2 has slowed, stirred and keeping my fingers crossed. Keeping it at 74F to get things going than will reduce to 70F. inoculated with White labs WLP675 Malolactic Bacteria with OPTI Malo plus.

 

[Seamonkey84]

I’ve read to not do a MLF on kit wines. They have been adjusted beforehand, doing one may leave one tasting very flat if you don’t adjust after. But I’m very new to this, and every kit is different.

 

[RPh_Guy]

One thing I have learned about this hobby is there are TOOOOOOO many variables. Thing you have it figured out with one wine, a the next one kicks you but. As they say in racing, everything matters. At least in this hobby, the failures are not too bad to consume.

True that!

Do you rack during MLF? From what I have read, more than a thin layer of lees is not good. I have racked twice, than started MLF, lees are about an inch in a 6 gal carboy. Seems like output of CO2 has slowed, stirred and keeping my fingers crossed. Keeping it at 74F to get things going than will reduce to 70F. inoculated with White labs WLP675 Malolactic Bacteria with OPTI Malo plus.

Unfortunately there's not a simple answer.

What's the benefit of racking?

• To ensure the wine is properly clarified. You don't need to do that at this point in the process since your wine is still actively fermenting.
• To reduce off-flavors from autolysis. This is rarely a problem on the homebrew level.
• To reduce the exposure of wild microbes (Brettanomyces in particular) and reduce their access to autolysis products/nutrients. Your kit wine shouldn't contain Brett or any other wild microbes.

What's the advantage to NOT racking?

• Decreased oxygen exposure.
• Increased contact with the fine lees (AKA Sur Lie aging) provides numerous benefits including faster/more complete degassing, decreased oxidation, increased body, and less harshness.

So, we can see that aggressive racking really isn't needed or desirable in this case.

I’ve read to not do a MLF on kit wines. They have been adjusted beforehand, doing one may leave one tasting very flat if you don’t adjust after.

For what it's worth I agree with this.

 

[Mark Kissel]

thanks RPh and Seamonkey, you have been great help for the new guy. my main source of info is a PDF i was sent called "the guide to red winemaking" from More Wine. It does assume you are starting from scratch rather than a kit and therefore goes through the MLF process. My thought was turning any remaining L-malic acid into L-lactic acid would make a better tasting wine. This kit is a LE 2018 Barbaresco Style w/ Skins Piedmont Italy Wine Kit from Winexpert. Since I have already started the MLF process, might as well see it through and see what happens. Again, Many thanks for the advice!!!

 

[kh54s10]

I've done about 15 wine kits without much research on wine making. I haven't felt the need to deviate from the instructions that come with the kits. In fact one Chardonnay kit was so good, that several people said it was the best Chardonnay that they had ever tasted. And they are not ones who wouldn't say what was on their minds if it was not so good.

 

[lukebuz]

I'd just like to say that while there is a science part of wine-making, there is an art side of it also. Adjust to taste, not what a reading and someone on the internet says it should be...

 

[RPh_Guy]

I'd just like to say that while there is a science part of wine-making, there is an art side of it also. Adjust to taste, not what a reading and someone on the internet says it should be...

Acidity should be adjusted to taste. The reference ranges just provide a good starting point. Do a bench trial for best results. However the wine may change over the next 6 months, and what you adjusted to taste at that point may later be too much or too little acidity, so relying on taste isn't a guarantee either.

Same goes for sweetness if you're making a sweet wine.

Oak should absolutely be adjusted to taste.

It's more difficult to adjust tannins to taste because it takes several weeks for the flavor to stabilize after you add some.

You may have some leeway with fermentation temperature, but not much. Fermenting too high may lead to off-flavors and fermenting too low may lead to it stalling.

For everything else you'll want to use recommended numbers. Pitch rate, rehydration temperature, nutrient quantities, stabilizing chemicals, etc.