How long can I Kettle Sour for?

[Lynchy217]

I brewed a saison a while ago, and one of the most common responses I got about it was that it wasn't tart enough. I'm looking to brew a batch of it for a friends birthday next month, and I was hoping to brew it again, but this time make it a tart version. Since her birthday is in a month, I don't have time to do a traditional sour beer, and I was hoping to do a kettle sour. I've been brewing on weekdays a lot, since my weekends have been pretty booked up, and the next few weeks don't look a lot better..

Anyway, on to my question. Is it possible for me to mash one day, let the mash sour overnight and do the boil nearly 24 hours later? For example, I get out of work around 5 PM. If I finished mash around 9 PM on Tuesday, can I come back on Wednesday at 5 PM and start boil then, will the final product come out ok?

I hope I was clear enough. Let me know if you need more info.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[Calaeb]

Yup, for something like that I'd personally buy a pure pitch of lacto. I haven't done one yet but I spent a lot of time reaserching. I was going to go with the oyl-605. You could mash, do a quick 10 minute boil in the kettle to kill anything off, then pitch your starter of lacto. From what I've read oyl-605 works fast and they recommend a 24-36 hour time frame to sour the beer. quickest way to make a sour that I know of.

 

[Lynchy217]

I was actually talking to the brewer at a local brewery and he offered to give me some of his house lacto.. This seems like a pretty good use for it.

 

[EcuPirate07]

When I did my kettle sour I added Latic acid once I collected all my wort to bring the ph down to around 4.5 ish. Then added a full container of goodbelly, kept it at 100 degrees and got to around 3.2 pretty quick I don't think that is even sour enough, but others would say it's too sour. It's preference at that point. If you don't have a ph meter just keep tasting it until you feel that it's at the right level.

 

[cactusgarrett]

I was actually talking to the brewer at a local brewery and he offered to give me some of his house lacto.. This seems like a pretty good use for it.

Depends on the strain of Lacto. From what i've researched plantarum sours nicely 70-90°F, but other strains like it 95°F+. I just let plantarum (OYL-605) kettle sour for 3 days, didn't monitor pH, and it's CRAZY sour.

 

[jfolks]

Yes, your plan is solid - except pitching pure lacto is better. Mash and Lauter as normal, chill to 115ish and rack into a keg, pitch a 1 L starter of pure lacto culture (either from a beer yeast brand or from your own local brewery), purge the crap out of the keg with co2, hold at 100ish for 24 hours, check ph (might take a couple days to go down far enough), when down to 3.4 to 3.7 or so, transfer to kettle and bring to a boil and proceed as normal at that point (tip: pitch a 2L starter of healthy saison yeast - like lager rates for kettle sours, and use pure oxygen to aerate).

 

[Lynchy217]

Thanks for the tips guys. A few things, though.. first, I don't have a good way to keep it warm. I can leave it at room temperature without a problem, but my only heat source is my heating element, and I don't really want to leave that running for a long period of time. I will definitely get some lacto from the brewery, though. I also don't have an oxygen setup yet, so I'll have to aerate with air. I do have a ph meter, though, so I can monitor it pretty easily.

With these deficiencies in my process, is the rush simply that it won't get sour enough or is there a chance of off flavors developing as well?

Thanks for all of the info!

 

[cactusgarrett]

Lacto plantarum works well at room temps and above. Might take a few hours longer to get the sour you're looking for, though. Check pH and taste.

You want the lacto to drop the pH as soon as possible to prevent other bugs taking hold, but you also don't want it TOO acidic (help me, people: below 3.3 or so?), as the subsequent sacc yeast will have trouble fermenting that.

 

[jfolks]

Thanks for the tips guys. A few things, though.. first, I don't have a good way to keep it warm. I can leave it at room temperature without a problem, but my only heat source is my heating element, and I don't really want to leave that running for a long period of time. I will definitely get some lacto from the brewery, though. I also don't have an oxygen setup yet, so I'll have to aerate with air. I do have a ph meter, though, so I can monitor it pretty easily.

With these deficiencies in my process, is the rush simply that it won't get sour enough or is there a chance of off flavors developing as well?

Thanks for all of the info!

Heat- chill to 115 and wrap a blanket around the keg to help preserve the warmth. Put it in the warmest part of your house. Hopefully it will stay about 80. (The whole quick sour thing relies on keeping the lacto in ideal growth conditions - which is in the 90-110 range). Make sure your brewery isn't using wyeast, which doesn't get sour enough for kettle sours. Otherwise get goodbelly or omega lacto.

Oxygen- the purpose of oxygen and the large starter/pitch rate is to give the yeast a fighting chance since sach is acid intolerant. It will probably still work without pure o2, but off flavors become a possibility due to lackluster fermentation via the acidic conditions. A pure o2 kit is like $50 - it is SERIOUSLY worth the minor investment. Your beers (particularly kettle sours and clean/normal beers) will improve dramatically from this cheap upgrade. If you aren't willing or able to buy a pure o2 kit, consider using 100% Brett as your primary fermenter instead since Brett performs well in low oxygen/acidic environments

 

[jfolks]

Lacto plantarum works well at room temps and above. Might take a few hours longer to get the sour you're looking for, though. Check pH and taste.

You want the lacto to drop the pH as soon as possible to prevent other bugs taking hold, but you also don't want it TOO acidic (help me, people: below 3.3 or so?), as the subsequent sacc yeast will have trouble fermenting that.

Don't go past 3.4 IMO for berliners

 

[Lynchy217]

A pure o2 kit is like $50

Where can I buy a $50 O2 kit? I looked into it a while ago, but it seemed like Tanks alone were more than that. Is there a way to use pure O2 without a tank?

 

[ong]

Where can I buy a $50 O2 kit? I looked into it a while ago, but it seemed like Tanks alone were more than that. Is there a way to use pure O2 without a tank?

You can just use the cheap recyclable tanks they sell for oxy-butane gas brazing torches for about $10. They aren't refillable, but you should get 20+ batches from one.

 

[jfolks]

You can just use the cheap recyclable tanks they sell for oxy-butane gas brazing torches for about $10. They aren't refillable, but you should get 20+ batches from one.

Yes, they sell kits for these:
http://www.homebrewing.org/Oxynator-oxygen-regulator-and-diffusion-kit_p_1057.html

Or you can buy the component parts and save a few bucks:
http://www.homebrewing.org/Oxygen-R...TMs7tHax7jvSyYrttzjIXDG5pHfSF7sxoCJyIQAvD_BwE

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V4JTMW...t=&hvlocphy=9032936&hvtargid=pla-319252289960

https://www.morebeer.com/products/beverage-tubing-316-id-foot.html

 

[millsbrew]

I did 4 days to drop to 3.44. Fermenting dropped it to 3.31.