How long before no light bulbs for bulb heater cans?

[ianw58]

Well, the way I read it (and I would like to have an engineer explain it better) infra red heaters don't heat air. They are electromagnetic radiation that has to hit another object to warm it up. That would mean you would have to point it directly at your carboy.

The reason they work for reptiles is because they actually bask under them, getting warmed up. They don't heat the enclosure as many users ask about on Amazon.

I think anyway, I am an info systems project manager so not an engineer.

I don't know where to begin.

Air is actually made up of molecules of gas, such as nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide and lots if other gases. Without these gases, we would have a vacuum.

For sound to travel, it has to create waves of energy through the air, just like a wave traveling through water. That's the reason that sound does not travel in space; there's nothing to carry the wave!

The infrared bulbs warm gases in the air, which, in turn, warm what ever they're near. The heat travels through the air just like sound waves or waves through water. They do not mysteriously transfer energy through space and time to warm things.

My infrared bulb is screwed into the socket in my light-bulb-in-a-can heater. I gave up on filament bulbs after the third bulb. The infrared bulb has been warming my ferments in my fridge all winter long.

 

[estricklin]

To achieve the same type of heat an incandescent can provide with a cfl would require more power and money vs. using an incandescent based on the nature of florescent being a colder burning bulb.

Why not just use a small 40/60w infrared light bulb like you use in a turtle tank? Those will still be available.

This after being on for 100 seconds,



Looks like they get pretty effin hot for something that ONLY uses 16 watts of electricity!!

I've been using CFLs in my house for about 10 years, and I love e'm. The 22 watt version produces 1600 lumens, the same or a tiny bit more than a 100 watt incandescent for less than 1/4 of the cost. Amazing! And, they last for many years. I've got some that have been around for 5 or 6 years easy.

If you want to really add some pepper to the gumbo:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001AZOV9K/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

2800 lumens and only 40 watts! I use them for grow lights for my tomatoes and peppers and they work great.

LEDs are more efficient than CFLs, but the brightest ones sold are about 800 lumens. I'm sure this will change soon though.

Edit:

I'm in no way implying that incandescent bulbs don't produce more heat than CFLs, since they use 4 times the electricity and produce the same amount of light the rest of the electrical energy must be turned to heat. But I think it would surprise many how much heat can be generated from a CFL.

 

[TyTanium]

I don't want a CFL bulb anywhere near my beer. Or anything I ingest for that matter.

I've used a small 200w space heater for years; works like a champ.

 

[sablesurfer]

I don't know where to begin.

Air is actually made up of molecules of gas, such as nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide and lots if other gases. Without these gases, we would have a vacuum.

For sound to travel, it has to create waves of energy through the air, just like a wave traveling through water. That's the reason that sound does not travel in space; there's nothing to carry the wave!

The infrared bulbs warm gases in the air, which, in turn, warm what ever they're near. The heat travels through the air just like sound waves or waves through water. They do not mysteriously transfer energy through space and time to warm things.

My infrared bulb is screwed into the socket in my light-bulb-in-a-can heater. I gave up on filament bulbs after the third bulb. The infrared bulb has been warming my ferments in my fridge all winter long.

I am not saying you can't get heat from an infrared bulb. People here wouldn't be doing it if didn't work. But if the goal is to heat the whole compartment, I can't see how infra red is the most effective.

Infrared is a lightwave. Electromagnetic energy. When the sun outside, during winter, is shining through your windows, the house is warmed because that light is actually slowed down. The energy is reduced and it get's stuck in your house...that slower energy can then be absorbed by those air molecules, speeding them up and making the room hotter. Yet if you go outside where not much but air is impeding the sunlight, it is still freekin cold.

An infrared bulb is designed to produce a very narrow field of 'light'. It is still light traveling at light speeds. That passes through 'air' with very little effect. (Actually isn't microwave radiation another thing that is electromagnetic...and that doesn't heat 'air' either.) So the infrared bulb will only 'produce' heat when the light waves are slowed down by something.

In your instance, I am going to assume you have the bulb enclosed in a can? Or that the bulb is kinda pointed at something that is getting hot? (Please if I am wrong tell me, cause I am still not an engineer. ) So if the bulb is heating the can, then it is the can that is raditating the slower energy of light converted to heat.

Now I know that light bulbs produce 'light', but the reason they are being phased out is because most of the energy is actually 'heat'. So to me it is actually more effective to use heat for heat instead of relying on changing light into heat.

No?

 

[fearwig]

I don't want a CFL bulb anywhere near my beer. Or anything I ingest for that matter.

I've used a small 200w space heater for years; works like a champ.

'sfine if you don't go around smashing them. But I don't like the helix design that can break and get all in your hair when you overtighten, why aren't there more with the second glass bulb around them?

 

[The_Bishop]

As a firefighter, lightbulbs in metal cans makes me shudder. There are better options; they may cost a buck or two more but that's a steal compared to watching your entire home and all your belongings become a pile of embers.

 

[ianw58]

Removed. I give up.

 

[LandoLincoln]

Removed. I give up.

Smart move.

 

[dyqik]

This after being on for 100 seconds,

Those handheld remote thermometers measure IR emission, not the temperature. They don't always give accurate results, particularly when pointed at non-thermal sources like CFL lightbulbs (which emit light by exciting phosphors on the tube surface with strong emission bands), or other objects with strong features in the their emission spectrum. I don't know if that reading is an accurate measure of the temperature of the bulb or not. Those thermometers are fine for measuring dull metals or other dull solid surfaces, but they don't necessarily work on e.g. boiling liquids, shiny surfaces, through glass, etc.

If the CFL bulb draws 16W of power, then the maximum heat it can provide to the fermentation chamber is 16W. All the power input to the bulb gets turned to light and heat, then the light gets turned to heat when it is absorbed within the chamber. For an incandescent bulb, a greater fraction of the input power is initially turned to heat, but eventually the rest is also turned to heat. Since it draws more power, it provides more heat. i.e. the first law of thermodynamics applies.

 

[sablesurfer]

Removed. I give up.

So much for trying to have a discussion. Why is it that the internet makes people take offense when you don't immediately agree? Oh well.

 

[estricklin]

Those handheld remote thermometers measure IR emission, not the temperature. They don't always give accurate results, particularly when pointed at non-thermal sources like CFL lightbulbs (which emit light by exciting phosphors on the tube surface with strong emission bands), or other objects with strong features in the their emission spectrum. I don't know if that reading is an accurate measure of the temperature of the bulb or not. Those thermometers are fine for measuring dull metals or other dull solid surfaces, but they don't necessarily work on e.g. boiling liquids, shiny surfaces, through glass, etc.

If the CFL bulb draws 16W of power, then the maximum heat it can provide to the fermentation chamber is 16W. All the power input to the bulb gets turned to light and heat, then the light gets turned to heat when it is absorbed within the chamber. For an incandescent bulb, a greater fraction of the input power is initially turned to heat, but eventually the rest is also turned to heat. Since it draws more power, it provides more heat. i.e. the first law of thermodynamics applies.

I'm guessing you didn't actually read all of my post above, but again I'm not arguing that CFLs produce more heat, because I clearly understand that they do not, they do however; last longer.

 

[dyqik]

I'm guessing you didn't actually read all of my post above, but again I'm not arguing that CFLs produce more heat, because I clearly understand that they do not, they do however; last longer.

I did read all of your post. I don't know what the lumens output of a CFL has to do with heating a fermentation chamber. If anything, it's a bad thing, as it gives more chance of skunking beer (assuming you don't take precautions), while providing less heat. In both cases, all of the electrical power used turns to heat, even that first emitted as light.

 

[LandoLincoln]

So much for trying to have a discussion. Why is it that the internet makes people take offense when you don't immediately agree? Oh well.

When you can't even agree on how an infrared light bulb works, then obviously the discussion isn't going to go anywhere.

 

[sablesurfer]

When you can't even agree on how an infrared light bulb works, then obviously the discussion isn't going to go anywhere.

Are you saying I have infrared incorrect? My sources have been wiki and some other sites so far. If you have information to prove my theory wrong please let me know. That is the whole damn point of my asking. Sigh.

 

[LandoLincoln]

Are you saying I have infrared incorrect? My sources have been wiki and some other sites so far. If you have information to prove my theory wrong please let me know. That is the whole damn point of my asking. Sigh.

I don't honestly know which of you is right. I'm just saying it's obvious that you two aren't going to have a constructive argument, since you can't even agree on the fundamental mechanism at play.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

i use a small hair dryer in my ferm chamber with controller.
works perfectly and has GFI incase.

perfection within a degree.

 

[LandoLincoln]

Although I will say this: I'm sitting in my office which is being warmed with an infrared ceramic heater, and while the most heat is being aimed by the fan inside towards me, it is indeed heating the entire office. So your theory that an infrared heater would have to be aimed directly at a carboy or carboys for them to be used as a heat source for a fermentation chamber seems to be incorrect.