How important is water for good beer? on a scale....

[wolfman_48442]

Like just about everyone else, my answer is: it depends.

Dark beers: camden tablet and maybe a pinch of minerals. Might need some acid.
Light beers: 40%-100% RO water and build the mineral profile from scratch. Acid is required.

A good water report + Bru'n Water spreadsheet are essential tools for me.

 

[davis119]

Like just about everyone else, my answer is: it depends.

Dark beers: camden tablet and maybe a pinch of minerals. Might need some acid.
Light beers: 40%-100% RO water and build the mineral profile from scratch. Acid is required.

A good water report + Bru'n Water spreadsheet are essential tools for me.

i gotcha
but like i said its not possible to have a report for every where i brew
and how much is RO water ??
i dont think i have ever seen it in the store ? purifiedwater the same thing ?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

and how much is RO water ??

.33 a gallon from the culligan stations at WalMart. YAMV.

 

[davis119]

.33 a gallon from the culligan stations at WalMart. YAMV.

YAMV?

And what do you do bring jugs? And fill them up. ? I have never seen any thing like that

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

YAMV?

And what do you do bring jugs? And fill them up. ? I have never seen any thing like that

Your Are May Vary.

They usually have a rack, near the soda section, with empty jugs/carboys ranging from 1 gallon to 5 gallon. You pay for the carboy the first time and just pay for refills each time after that.

 

[kpr121]

Ughhh this is a portion of the hobby that I have been very reluctant to dive into. Being an engineer I understand there is necessity to nitpick and be detail-oriented, but that mindset seldom falls through to my homebrewing. I guess I equate homebrewing to more like cooking rather than baking.

But all this discussion (plus my engineer-conscience in the back of my head) has me thinking I should at least send my water away to get it analyzed. For $20, at the least it would be good peace of mind. At the worst, it will cost me hundreds of dollars on an RO setup that I convince myself (and SWMBO) we absolutely need because I will be too lazy to buy water from the grocer.

Currently I filter my tap water through one of those under-sink activated charcoal filters. The last batch I did I measured all my brewing water out the night before and treated with a campden tablet. Havent tasted that brew yet but it felt like a good thing to do, let the water sit out overnight at the least.

Hopefully my water report will come back that I have pretty good readings, and that I don’t have to do much to it.

 

[LandofOZ]

a camden tablet treats how much tap water

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

a camden tablet treats how much tap water

20 gallons.

 

[LandofOZ]

since i brew 5 gallon batches any harm using a whole camden tablet for the five gallons

 

[UnrulyGentleman]

If money isn't a big deal, would it be better to purchase RO water or bottled waters (Evian, Poland Spring, etc.)? I'm sure there's a complicated answer, but if I was going to try with non-tap water and just wanted to buy something without having to treat it, which way do you go?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

since i brew 5 gallon batches any harm using a whole camden tablet for the five gallons

Not that I recall. However, I find it easier to just weigh a tablet for reference and then crush all of them into a powder for more specific dosing and to aid dissolving.

 

[wolfman_48442]

If money isn't a big deal, would it be better to purchase RO water or bottled waters (Evian, Poland Spring, etc.)? I'm sure there's a complicated answer, but if I was going to try with non-tap water and just wanted to buy something without having to treat it, which way do you go?

The problem with the 'bottled' or 'spring' waters is that, depending on where they are bottled, they can have more minerals than your tap water! You just don't know. It may be fine and perfect for brewing, it may be terrible.

RO water (assuming it's properly very low or 0 TDS) is a known quantity than can be used as a base to build a profile on with a high degree of confidence.

You can guess which one I spend money on

 

[scoundrel]

How much is that filter actually stripping out of the water? Is it getting it close to RO water? I think my next step is playing with the water chemistry, and that filter looks like a good option for my outdoor setup,

It is a charcoal filter and it does remove mineral content. Here is a picture from the package. People tend to get caught up in numbers. Yes it's 100 microns but that doesn't mean it isn't effective enough to make tap water suitable for brewing beer.

It comes down to cost/benefit. I've done gallons of RO water from Walmart, Pur filters and Brita jugs and from my experience, I did not see that big of a difference. That being said, all of these solutions were way better than just straight tap water.

For me, I go with the RV filter, not because it strips everything to the point of being distilled. I chose it because its a consistent, clean, high output water source. It's simple to use, doesn't require a part time job to pay for, doesn't require additional trips to the grocery store, or hours waiting to filter 13 gallons in pitcher jugs. Ultimately, do what's best for you. For me, I was spending too much time scouring the web for the best gadget instead of simply tasting the water. If it tastes good... it's good.

 

[solbes]

I get RO water from our local grocery store chain in MN for $.39/gallon and reuse the jugs. I typically use 2 or 3 gallons RO. A home reverse osmosis system for me is not justifiable at those costs.

 

[UnrulyGentleman]

The problem with the 'bottled' or 'spring' waters is that, depending on where they are bottled, they can have more minerals than your tap water! You just don't know. It may be fine and perfect for brewing, it may be terrible.

RO water (assuming it's properly very low or 0 TDS) is a known quantity than can be used as a base to build a profile on with a high degree of confidence.

You can guess which one I spend money on

Can RO be used without making any adjustments to it? Would it still be preferable to tap ( I know it varies, but mine is pretty horrible)?

 

[ArcaneXor]

Can RO be used without making any adjustments to it? Would it still be preferable to tap ( I know it varies, but mine is pretty horrible)?

For extract beers, yes, although I would still add a little bit of 5.2 stabilizer to the steeping water to prevent the pH from dropping too low.

For all-grain beers, the answer is: It depends. You usually want to have at least 50 ppm of calcium for yeast health, but something like a Czech Pils is made with water that is about as close to RO as you can find.

 

[wolfman_48442]

For extract beers, yes, although I would still add a little bit of 5.2 stabilizer to the steeping water to prevent the pH from dropping too low.

For all-grain beers, the answer is: It depends. You usually want to have at least 50 ppm of calcium for yeast health, but something like a Czech Pils is made with water that is about as close to RO as you can find.

Well said.

Remember too, you don't necessarily need 100% RO water.
I just made a very nice Kolsch that required 40% RO to tap water to get the profile I wanted.
But you need to have your local water profile in hand so you know where to go from there.

 

[SwampassJ]

Can RO be used without making any adjustments to it? Would it still be preferable to tap ( I know it varies, but mine is pretty horrible)?

For extract it is good to go since the extract has already been mashed and has it's own mineral content. For all grain you need to add some Calcium and usually some saurmalz(acid malt) to get the pH in range.

Water chemistry primer

 

[davis119]

ugh i started this thread hoping id get some anwsers
but instead its just making my head spin like all the other water threads
i have alot to learn.....

 

[jonmohno]

Read John Palmers how to brew,its free online but the book is updated,it has a pretty good section on understanding water and mash ph-to get you started.If you havent already,its a good reference for alot of other questions as well.

 

[DaveM77]

So far i have just used bottled water and it works great for me, I'm just doing 5 gallon batches so far so the expense of buying bottles is not an issue. If I was doing large batches I would probably invest in a filter at least.

 

[eppo]

I don't have time to read 5 pages of threads but...
How does your beer taste? If its good, don't mess with your water. Filtered water is good. Only reason I went with bottled was because I have high sulphates which causes a harsh bitterness.

 

[passedpawn]

Band-aids are only useful if you're bleeding.

I have an RO/DI system. I've used that for light beers, then not used it. I couldn't tell the difference. I guess I'm not bleeding.

 

[davis119]

I don't have time to read 5 pages of threads but...
How does your beer taste? If its good, don't mess with your water. Filtered water is good. Only reason I went with bottled was because I have high sulphates which causes a harsh bitterness.

yeah well to sum it up .. alot of the posts here feel similar. and some find it very omportant to get the water profile to fit the recipe....

but my issue is me brewing at 4 different locations...... so its never going to be consistant unless i bring the water with me

 

[scoundrel]

ugh i started this thread hoping id get some anwsers
but instead its just making my head spin like all the other water threads
i have alot to learn.....

Exactly. Water is over analyzed. It really is important, but people aren't perfect and we're not built to pick up the slightest of changes. Experiment a bit since you brew at a few locations. Maybe one location is good for porters, another is good for lagers and another is good for IPA's.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

As somebody said before, beer is 99% water so the water is an extremely important ingredient. The easiest way to tell if you need to use something other than your tap supply is by taste. If it tastes good alone it's going to make good beer.

Fortunately for some, the local water supply is excellent for the beers you make. For others -- such as myself -- the local water supply is nasty. Not only is our water hard it's full of chlorine/chloramine. So I definitely filter any water I use from the tap. Often I buy distilled water and cut it with filtered tap water to get to the correct levels to hit the right color for the beer. I only add additional salts when I need the help on a very light or very dark beer. I could be more anal about the water chemistry but I get good beer blending store water with filtered tap water.

The first thing anybody should do when it comes to using tap water is deal with chlorine/chloramine. Get a filter or camden and treat it. Those chlorophenols will make beer nasty in a hurry.

If you want to get serious about water chemistry it's much easier to begin with RO water and build minerals from there than to try to treat tap water. It's difficult to get consistency by treating tap water because the mineral (and chlorine) content changes as the temperature changes and by precipitation levels.

 

[scoundrel]

If we increase water quantity then is it possible that the energy of beer decrease?
And which scale is perfect for including water?

I'm sorry David but I don't think I understand your question.

 

[davis119]

I'm sorry David but I don't think I understand your question.

Wow and your a beer geek.

think he means water quality not quantity?

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

yeah well to sum it up .. alot of the posts here feel similar. and some find it very omportant to get the water profile to fit the recipe....

but my issue is me brewing at 4 different locations...... so its never going to be consistant unless i bring the water with me

If you're brewing at different locations, and want to use the same water each time, you could use R/O water and add minerals. R/O water is often sold as 'drinking water', read the label, if it says 'purified by reverse osmosis', it's R/O water. Also, bottled spring water makes great beer, IMO. Spring water is usually labeled as such, and is available at most grocer's. For light beers, I'll often use bottled spring water and the results are great. I sometimes also use R/O when I want to 'build' water like that from a specific region.

 

[Raenon]

Wow and your a beer geek.

think he means water quality not quantity?

So... you don't know either?
I haven't the foggiest idea what the guy is asking.

Water is very important, but I think that most overanalyze because they assume that whatever issue that have is the most important one. Plus, it's a hobby- and it's one more element you can try to perfect. Nothing wrong with that.

I get water deliveries and have a water cooler, so I use the same tasty water that I drink all day to brew with.
My tap water is from a good solid municipal source, and is fine for cooking and bathing (unlike certain sulphurous well sources I've encountered elsewhere), but my house has very old cast iron pipes, and I don't like the flavor of that tap water for drinking.

So, distilled, mineralized drinking water for me. A 5 gallon jug delivered is still only around $3, and it means I don't have to go to the grocery store for it.
Works for me!