How far from bottom to drill element hole?

[314alias]

I'm putting a herms coil in my HLT and wanted to know how high front the bottom I needed to drill the element hole. I'm stepping towards a e-herms but am starting with manual propane at this point so won't be drilling the element hole yet I just want to plan for it.

It's going on a 15 gal G1 blichmann, so I obviously can't go lower than the step in it.

 

[BrunDog]

As low as practical.

 

[lschiavo]

I second that. The element had to be there. Place it as low as possible and build the rest around it.

 

[tofuguy]

So I just did my first element build on a 15 gallon kettle for 5 gallon batches. I ended up putting the element only a finger width above the bottom at the end of the element. I am happy with the results. Just remember the element will sag about a 1/4 inch from the mounting location to the end, so compensate for this. But I will warn you, its a pain in the butt tightening down the element's locknut when its so close to the bottom by yourself.

 

[highland_brewer]

As low as practical.

Agree with this. Make sure to check and see if your kettle has a curve near the bottom, is it does, make sure you are going to get a flush seal with the o-ring against the kettle. (if you are going weldless.) Also make sure that you will be able to turn the nut to tighten the element down inside the kettle. Other than that make sure the enclosure you use has clearance on your bench and the kettle does not rest on the wiring enclosure.

 

[BrunDog]

Agree with this. Make sure to check and see if your kettle has a curve near the bottom, is it does, make sure you are going to get a flush seal with the o-ring against the kettle. (if you are going weldless.) Also make sure that you will be able to turn the nut to tighten the element down inside the kettle. Other than that make sure the enclosure you use has clearance on your bench and the kettle does not rest on the wiring enclosure.

Likewise agree with this. Lay everything out as it will be in real life and make no ASSumptions.

 

[BrewKaiser]

Just out of curiosity and for the benefit of all future, like minded over-thinkers who stumble upon this thread, do you think there is some "ideal" height placement that helps maximize convective currents around the element?

OP was inquiring about placement in HLT, but similarly what are your thoughts on ideal placement in BK that provides some space for trub/hop cone formation as well as convective currents?

Only related to placement in BK, for those of you who do prolonged whirlpool hop stands in the 165-170 range and who have their elements as low as possible: Do you fire your element to maintain this whirlpool temp? Are there any scorching concerns from the cone debris resting on the element? Obviously this is not an issue when using RIMS or a HERMs/HEX to maintain temp.

Just musing...

 

[BrunDog]

Good muses. As far as convective currents, I think it's pretty much a non-issue as they are abundant with the heat the element puts out. Once boiling, the bubbles create lots of movement.

I agree that space underneath for the cone is needed. But at the practical height that's still a good 1.5"+. It would take a big cone to reach that height and as you know, it's. ore a mound than a pyramid.

I PID my boil element at 170 during the whirlpool to hold the temp.

 

[BrewKaiser]

As far as convective currents, I think it's pretty much a non-issue as they are abundant with the heat the element puts out. Once boiling, the bubbles create lots of movement.

Certainly for a HLT with a HERMs coil, the need to place the coil as low as possible trumps any benefit from convective currents an element may cause. I'm no physicist, but I'm sure there is some formula to help determine best location. This is again just musings and academic, but I've gotta believe there is some benefit to locating the element at a height that is conducive to convection in the kettle. Especially for those proponents of reducing boil vigor.

I agree that space underneath for the cone is needed. But at the practical height that's still a good 1.5"+. It would take a big cone to reach that height and as you know, it's. ore a mound than a pyramid.

I've never been able to see what the actual cone looks like during whirlpool (didn't think sticking my face with scuba mask in boiling hot sticky liquid is prudent) . I know that if you whirlpool, say coffee grinds, in a beaker, the pyramid shape is more pronounced. Once the whirlpool dies down the cone does become a mound as you say. I guess we would see evidence of scorching on our elements, but I still think it's worth considering for high hop content brews.

I PID my boil element at 170 during the whirlpool to hold the temp.

Is your RIMS only in your HERMs loop? Not sure what the "gentler" approach is: Boil element vs RIMS/HERMs/HEX. Not that I think it really matters. The benefit of using your Boil Element is it keeps hops in suspension longer - again thanks to convective currents and bubbles.

Yes! I am a classic, compulsive, over-thinker. Admitting I have a problem is the first step. So they say.

 

[BrunDog]

I would like to see the the scuba mask trick!

WRT HERMs, I don't go that route, but from what I have seen, most recirc the HLT water, so convection is less of a concern.

Not trying to be contrarian, but I also think that no scorching will occur even if the element were buried in a hop cone, because the element is adding very little heat at that point, and the whirlpool moves the heat around effectively.

WRT to your over-thinking... Sounds like you need a hobby?!?

 

[highland_brewer]

I would like to see the the scuba mask trick!

WRT HERMs, I don't go that route, but from what I have seen, most recirc the HLT water, so convection is less of a concern.

Not trying to be contrarian, but I also think that no scorching will occur even if the element were buried in a hop cone, because the element is adding very little heat at that point, and the whirlpool moves the heat around effectively.

WRT to your over-thinking... Sounds like you need a hobby?!?

Here is a photo of the aftermath of a major hop stand.. the "cone" subsided but no scorching here for sure. My element is less than 2 inches off of the bottom of my kettle.