how do you save money... and what's your per bottle price?

[douglasbarbin]

the real reason i started this thread was to determine when All Grain becomes cheaper than extract.


obviously when you start out, extract is cheaper, you don't need a kettle, dont need a propane burner.

all you need is the biggest houshold pot you already have, a hydrometer, and a bucket.


so i haven't moved to all grain because i always assumed it was hundreds of gallons before you pay off the actual kettle, and god forbid immersion chillers and the like.


how do people determine when to switch from extract to grain? i assume it's not financial 90% of the time.

If it's financial, then it's a poor decision. Really the best reason to go to all-grain is to gain better control over the brew.

 

[zippy84]

If it's financial, then it's a poor decision. Really the best reason to go to all-grain is to gain better control over the brew.

I would agree when people go into all-grain territory it becomes more of an obsession, less about cost cutting and more about control and perfection. But, from my partial mash setup, without the need for a proper mash tun, propane burner, kegging equipment (I bottle with bottles sourced from local bar etc) it's really only costing me for the ingredients and water.

I can brew for about 80c a pint tops, usually less. Which is about a 3rd of the price of a craft beer where I'm at (of similar quality too). I see no need to go all grain at the moment, or dish out money on a kegging setup. Also I've seen experiments documented online where groups of experienced blind taste testers couldn't tell the difference between all-grain and partial mash beers. Even some extracts scored higher than the all-grain equivalents. This helps vindicate my reasons for refraining from upping the ante.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Try a half sized all grain sometime. With partial boil equipment you can do a simple brew in a bag all grain and all it will cost you extra is a couple bucks for a paint strainer bag for the grains. Decide what you think about all grain that way. Its all personal preference

 

[zippy84]

Try a half sized all grain sometime. With partial boil equipment you can do a simple brew in a bag all grain and all it will cost you extra is a couple bucks for a paint strainer bag for the grains. Decide what you think about all grain that way. Its all personal preference

I'd probably need to buy a second fermenter to warrant this. But yeah I get your way of thinking, makes sense. I'm not bothered with a paint strainer bag either, I just throw all the grains into the pot, mash under a duvet in the bed for an hour... doesn't lose a degree!... then strain through a hop bag wrapped around a colander. Sparge over the colander too.

 

[rich5665]

Grain = $21.00
Hops = $4.00 - $8.00
Yeast = $6.00 (If I don't pitch on top of the old cake)
Caps, Propane, StarSan... $10.00

So somewhere in the neighborhood of $40.00 makes two cases of beer.

I have probably spent over $300.00 on equipment, so that also needs to be amortized so lets say six batches per year times 2 years adds $25.00 per batch.

At the end of the day - this isn't a money saving proposition.

Show me a hobby that is a money saving endeavor. I Fly Fish and tie flies, people always ask if they'll save money tying their own flies -Uh No. A hobby is not about saving money. It's more about the joy in the end product. If your going to worry about the costs of the hobby, then best not to get started.

 

[rhys333]

For winter indoor brewing, I do 4 gallon BIAB batches on the stove using a 5 gallon pot. I boil 4.5 gallons down to 3.5, then top up in the fermentor with approximately 0.5 gallons water. Works great! This sort of thing might work for you as it takes zero additional investment (other than the bag, as Drunklejon mentions).

 

[zippy84]

For winter indoor brewing, I do 4 gallon BIAB batches on the stove using a 5 gallon pot. I boil 4.5 gallons down to 3.5, then top up in the fermentor with approximately 0.5 gallons water. Works great! This sort of thing might work for you as it takes zero additional investment (other than the bag, as Drunklejon mentions).

Interesting. What is your run of the mill grain bill (excuse the pun) for a 4 gallon batch? Doesn't it get messy doing 4.5 gallons in a 5 gallon pot?

 

[zippy84]

Show me a hobby that is a money saving endeavor.

Tbh I save money brewing beers as nice as I can buy them.. And I enjoy the process!

 

[rhys333]

Interesting. What is your run of the mill grain bill (excuse the pun) for a 4 gallon batch? Doesn't it get messy doing 4.5 gallons in a 5 gallon pot?

Not messy at all really. Just gotta be careful during the initial hot break, but after the foam settles its fine. Not sure I understand the first part of your question, but if you mean what recipe do I usually brew, it varies. I do a fair amount of pale ales, as posted above, to around 5% abv. My 5 gal pot is big enough to mash way more grain than I do for the 4 gal batches

 

[zippy84]

Not messy at all really. Just gotta be careful during the initial hot break, but after the foam settles its fine. Not sure I understand the first part of your question, but if you mean what recipe do I usually brew, it varies. I do a fair amount of pale ales, as posted above, to around 5% abv. My 5 gal pot is big enough to mash way more grain than I do for the 4 gal batches

I guess what I was asking is how much grain do you generally need to make a batch that size of average abv. I do forget there's a difference in US gallons and imperial gallons (what most of the world uses). 4 US gallons is over 3 imperial gallons or about 15 liters, which I'm guessing would require about 6.5lbs of grain? I guess it's just about doable with my setup. It's basically just a half sized all-grain batch as DrunkleJon mentioned earlier, as my normal batches are about 23 liters (6 us gallons).

 

[rhys333]

I'm in Canada and use metric by default. I often reference US gallons on here as most people post recipes using that system. I hear you on the imperial/US volume thing. So I typically brew 23L / 5 Imp gal / 6 US gal batches. When I do indoor all-grain, its a 5 US gal pot, so after alls said and done I end up with 4 US gallons in the fermentor (equalling 15 L). My grain bill for a 5% abv batch this size is somewhere around 3.5kg (7.7lb) in weight.

 

[jaydlaw]

If it's financial, then it's a poor decision. Really the best reason to go to all-grain is to gain better control over the brew.

Disagree. Money is always a component in any decision making process. The buy in to move from extract to all grain was to the point where it made sense to make the move. Granted the beer send clearer and better, but my first concern is $ and the ability to continue to support my hobby.

 

[Brulosopher]

The 2 best ways I've found to save money, and I brew quite a bit:

1. Stop worrying about having a big shiny system, some of the best beer I've tasted came from a BIAB brewer who boils in aluminum.

2. BULK (http://brulosophy.com/2014/10/27/the-beauty-of-bulk-how-i-brew-more-beer-more-often/)!! A 50 lbs sack of 2-row goes for ~$38 where the LHBS sells it for $1.60/lb. Same story with hops, while I harvest year from starters to save there.

 

[zippy84]

Some people seem to think throwing money at something = improvement or advancement in their hobby. I'd rather make great beer with minimal equipment than bad beer with a great setup. An old mate of mine used to play guitar, he would buy the best of gear, Gibson guitars, Marshall amps etc.. nothing could disguise the fact that he was a terrible guitarist.

On the other hand I know a golfer that plays off 2 with a set of clubs like something out of tin cup: grips worn to bits, dirty rusty old things, mold on his bag lol.

Having said all that, yes for someone who has nailed their methods and has the time, space and cash to pimp up their setup, why not, go for it! I'd love to have a kegging system, just don't have the room. But my point in the above is that more money spent does not equate to better beer. Neither are really related.

 

[douglasbarbin]

Disagree. Money is always a component in any decision making process. The buy in to move from extract to all grain was to the point where it made sense to make the move. Granted the beer send clearer and better, but my first concern is $ and the ability to continue to support my hobby.

Then we can agree to disagree. I can definitely say that I have spent much more on my current all-grain setup than I will ever recoup in savings from not having to buy extract any more. Can you move to all-grain cheaply and save money doing so? Absolutely. But that was not the path I took. In fact, I will probably never recoup the money I invested in equipment. But for me, the control it gives me over my process and the fun I have had taking this journey is completely worth the added cost.

 

[DaNewf]

I just brewed a batch of BarleyWater's Dark Chocolate Stout. I subbed hops I found growing locally for the Crystal hops in the recipe and I racked the wort onto the yeast cake (Danstar Nottingham) of a modified version of BierMuncher's Centennial Blonde (used the same hops for this batch as well).

Over these two batches I've saved over $10.00CDN (vs LHBS prices for hops and yeast). Will the beer be any good? I'll have to get back to you on that.

 

[Tegra]

DaNewf:

I definitely hear you. Us Canadians have to take a mortgage to buy beer.
Anything more than a 6 pack a week and your are better brewing your own.

I thought the micro brewers might drop the price a bit, but all they have done is develop the premium price point.

Going to all grain was a no brainer as BIAB meant only a bag and a grain mill and I would bed 1/4 the cost of base malt. I have thought that someone should write a book that helps the beginner with the the next step.

Tom