How do you calibrate your water volumes?

[dsaavedra]

Accuracy and consistency are two different things. If your recipe calls for 12lb of base malt, your scale is off, and you actually put in 12.5lb, that's inaccurate. But, if every time you brew that recipe you use the same scale and weigh out 12.5lb of base malt (thinking that it's 12lb) you can still be consistent.

Consistent process makes for consistent results. You do not need to be accurate to be consistent.

Now let's say that you're inconsistent, and sometimes you put 12lb of base malt in, sometimes 13. You may even accurately weigh out your inconsistent amounts, but you will not get consistent results.

So, your sight gauge is likely to be consistent even if it's not accurate. If you use that sight gauge to measure out your strike and sparge water every time, you can expect consistent results.

As mentioned previously, we're brewing beer here, not landing a person on Mars. If your numbers don't match up with anything outside of your brewery, it doesn't matter as long as your process in consistent and you're getting the results you want.

All of that said, I would like all of my equipment to be accurately calibrated, but I realize that I'm not working with calibrated lab grade measuring equipment. The sight gauge on my kettle is "good enough" as are my scales.

I share this point of view. I "calibrated" all of my brewing equipment (carboys, buckets, kettles, etc) with a graduated 1 gallon pitcher I have. Is it exactly 1 US gallon according to the US government or whoever maintains the standards of measurement? I have no idea. But in my brewery, it is one gallon, and everything that needs to be measured gets measured against it, so everything is consistent from batch to batch and I'm happy.

 

[h22lude]

I share this point of view. I "calibrated" all of my brewing equipment (carboys, buckets, kettles, etc) with a graduated 1 gallon pitcher I have. Is it exactly 1 US gallon according to the US government or whoever maintains the standards of measurement? I have no idea. But in my brewery, it is one gallon, and everything that needs to be measured gets measured against it, so everything is consistent from batch to batch and I'm happy.

But wouldn't recipes be off if you aren't using a gallon? Say you calibrate everything using your pitcher but that pitcher is really 1.1 gallons. Now you find a recipe that needs 7 gallons in the boil kettle. 7 gallons using your pitcher would be 7.7 gallons in reality. Your OG would be off and you would have more wort than you wanted. Isn't this the point of having a standardized unit of measure? Not arguing what you do is wrong. Like I said, we all do things differently and our own way of doing things can't be wrong if that is how you want to do it. Just trying to understand other point of views.

 

[Spartan300man]

* A gallon of water at the store won't be exactly 1 gallon. It will be slightly over, due to the variability in the filling process, as well as the manufacturer making sure they "average" at least 1 gallon over the course of 100 bottles, so they don't get in legal trouble. I can tell you from experience that a company I worked with used to put 15.32 oz in a 15 oz bottle for that same reason. I'd guess a gallon water bottle is probably a few ounces over a legal 128 oz gallon.
* I had this question about my equipment a year ago. So I used a scale and checked a 100 CC graduated cylinder, then used it to fill a water jug, my 5 gallon bucket and my glass carboy. I weighted them all and then poured one into the other to make sure the marking matched. I used the theory that 100 cc of water weighs 100 grams at room temperature. Then I converted this over to gallons.
* When I am transferring to the fermentor bucket, I have topped off the bucket with enough cooled boiled water to get it to the 5 or the 5.5 gallon mark on the bucket depending on the recipe. It is the finished amount that I am most interested in.

 

[kh54s10]

I used a measuring cup to mark 2 plastic pitchers. They are marked for 1/2 gallon. I used them to measure out and mark all my equipment.
So if anything is off they are all off the same.

When I see a recipe I want to do, I use the ingredients and rework it for my system in Beersmith. So, it is taking my measurements into account. Take your example of needing 7 gallons into the boil kettle. This number is a little different for everyone's system. Some may only need 6.5 gallons for boil off to end up with 5 gallons of wort. I need 7.2 gallons to end up with 5.

I also marked my sight gauge with tap water. So I know it is inaccurate when the water is heated. I have a dip stick that I use to see how much wort I have preboil. I don't know exactly how accurate it is but I do know where it has to read to get the right amount of cooled wort into my fermenter.

It will not be exactly the same as the person who made the recipe first. Unless you use their rig, you can't completely duplicate it anyway.

There are so many variables in home brewing that I don't get caught up trying to be exact. I think I can brew the same recipe on different occasions and get close. I don't think I have the ability to make 2 batches exactly the same.

So, IMO, all the trouble to get so accurate is not worth the effort.

 

[dsaavedra]

But wouldn't recipes be off if you aren't using a gallon? Say you calibrate everything using your pitcher but that pitcher is really 1.1 gallons. Now you find a recipe that needs 7 gallons in the boil kettle. 7 gallons using your pitcher would be 7.7 gallons in reality. Your OG would be off and you would have more wort than you wanted. Isn't this the point of having a standardized unit of measure? Not arguing what you do is wrong. Like I said, we all do things differently and our own way of doing things can't be wrong if that is how you want to do it. Just trying to understand other point of views.

This sort of thing tends to work itself out the more I brew and get accustomed to my own system. If I measure out 7 gallons for a batch using my pitcher and I come up with more wort at a lower OG than I intended, I will use less than 7 "pitcher gallons" next time

 

[h22lude]

* A gallon of water at the store won't be exactly 1 gallon. It will be slightly over, due to the variability in the filling process, as well as the manufacturer making sure they "average" at least 1 gallon over the course of 100 bottles, so they don't get in legal trouble. I can tell you from experience that a company I worked with used to put 15.32 oz in a 15 oz bottle for that same reason. I'd guess a gallon water bottle is probably a few ounces over a legal 128 oz gallon.
* I had this question about my equipment a year ago. So I used a scale and checked a 100 CC graduated cylinder, then used it to fill a water jug, my 5 gallon bucket and my glass carboy. I weighted them all and then poured one into the other to make sure the marking matched. I used the theory that 100 cc of water weighs 100 grams at room temperature. Then I converted this over to gallons.
* When I am transferring to the fermentor bucket, I have topped off the bucket with enough cooled boiled water to get it to the 5 or the 5.5 gallon mark on the bucket depending on the recipe. It is the finished amount that I am most interested in.

That is good to know. Weighing one of those jugs is probably the best way to get a good measurement.

When I see a recipe I want to do, I use the ingredients and rework it for my system in Beersmith. So, it is taking my measurements into account. Take your example of needing 7 gallons into the boil kettle. This number is a little different for everyone's system. Some may only need 6.5 gallons for boil off to end up with 5 gallons of wort. I need 7.2 gallons to end up with 5.

I'm taking boil off out of the equation. You boil off 2.2 gallons. So for a 5 gallon batch you put in 7.2 gallons but if your gallon markers are 1.1 gallons because your measuring pitcher was off, you now have 7.92 gallons. So to correct this, you need to buy more grains to get the right OG.

I guess I'm just OCD about having the most accurate measurements. I know in the end we all make beer but I just like knowing everything is accurate. I'd rather spend time getting everything accurate and not need to mess around with BeerSmith too much and have to worry about getting more grains to match the estimated OG.

This sort of thing tends to work itself out the more I brew and get accustomed to my own system. If I measure out 7 gallons for a batch using my pitcher and I come up with more wort at a lower OG than I intended, I will use less than 7 "pitcher gallons" next time

Yeah that is a good point. Even with the most accurate measurements, we all still adjust volumes and what not as we brew. Like I said above, I guess my OCD is kicking in and I just would rather have more accurate measurements from the start.

 

[kh54s10]

That is good to know. Weighing one of those jugs is probably the best way to get a good measurement.



I'm taking boil off out of the equation. You boil off 2.2 gallons. So for a 5 gallon batch you put in 7.2 gallons but if your gallon markers are 1.1 gallons because your measuring pitcher was off, you now have 7.92 gallons. So to correct this, you need to buy more grains to get the right OG.

I guess I'm just OCD about having the most accurate measurements. I know in the end we all make beer but I just like knowing everything is accurate. I'd rather spend time getting everything accurate and not need to mess around with BeerSmith too much and have to worry about getting more grains to match the estimated OG.

I don't know that my markings are 100% accurate. But I am very close. All of my measurements came from the same start.
My rig is different than whoever made a recipe so I cannot totally duplicate it anyway.
If I see a recipe that I like I just use the ingredients and put them in Beersmith using my equipment profile. It then adjusts the recipe to fit my rig. If I want the same color, OG, IBU etc. I have to tweak the amounts and times until it matches. EVERY recipe will change a little.

You would have to do that anyway unless you are using the exact same equipment as the person who made the recipe.

 

[h22lude]

I don't know that my markings are 100% accurate. But I am very close. All of my measurements came from the same start.
My rig is different than whoever made a recipe so I cannot totally duplicate it anyway.
If I see a recipe that I like I just use the ingredients and put them in Beersmith using my equipment profile. It then adjusts the recipe to fit my rig. If I want the same color, OG, IBU etc. I have to tweak the amounts and times until it matches. EVERY recipe will change a little.

You would have to do that anyway unless you are using the exact same equipment as the person who made the recipe.

If you use a pitcher that is 1.1 gallons instead of 1 gallon and that is how you mark your kettle, you think it is 1 gallon and that is what you enter into BeerSmith. How would BeerSmith be able to correct the recipe for this if neither you or BeerSmith knows your gallon marking are off by .1 gallon? You find a recipe you like, enter it into BeerSmith and then adjust it to your equipment profile. So maybe you boil off 2 gallons per hour and do 5.5 gallon batches. Now your recipe will be adjusted to your equipment. So maybe you need a small % more grain and hops to adjust for this. BeerSmith tells you that you need 7.5 gallons to boil (taking away mash for ease). You put in 7.5 gallons based on your markings. Well your markings are really 1.1 gallons so now you have 8.25 gallons.

I guess after your brew you find out you have more than estimated so then you can adjust BeerSmith somehow to fix it? I just figure it would be so much easier to have the correct measurements and not have to worry about it.

Granted, if your 1 gallon measurements are 130oz instead of 128oz, that isn't really going to do anything. I'm talking about a difference of 1/2 gallon or more total difference for each batch.

I could also just be over thinking it. Whatever works for everyone is what they should do.

 

[kh54s10]

All I am saying is that my amounts might be off very slightly. Certainly not off so much that I would have 8.25 when I thought I had 7.5 But they are always the same. I have my equipment profile set in Beersmith so I collect the proper amount in my fermenters. I might have 4.9,5.1 or even 5.2 gallons but not much different than that. The change in amount of malts BS would make for that difference might total an ounce or so.

Once you have set your equipment profile to get the volume in the end that you want you no longer need to worry about measurement inputs in BS. And you will not be off by 1/2 gallon unless you mess up.

I am also not to concerned with exact measurements except for getting the right amount of wort collected for the boil. Within 1/4 gallon, because boil off is not always the same anyway.

 

[TallDan]

What is the best way to measure volume? I know weighing is a really accurate measurement but I don't feel like buying a good scale just for this. I have a hop scale but I don't think it would do the 8.33lbs for a gallon.

I guess I'm just OCD about having the most accurate measurements.

Does not compute. If OCD, buy an accurate scale and measure not just your water, but everything else correctly. If not, do not.

 

[jr72023]

I could also just be over thinking it. Whatever works for everyone is what they should do.

Give that man a cigar!

So, if you decide to use weight as your standard I must ask, when was the last time you had your scale calibrated? The consensus standard for accuracy is that scales should be calibrated every six months.

As part of my job I design water tanks. You can't go wrong using accurate, physical dimensions and the fact that there are 231 cubic inches of water to a gallon at room temperature.

For instance, if you measure a 10 gallon boil kettle accurately you can even determine the loss from the curve form of the bottom but that is being a little to anal. I would put my money on the guy with the stainless steel scale (a measuring device, not to be confused with a "ruler" which has added length) to be the one who is most accurate of all posters in this thread.

Personally, I got better things to worry about than a few cups of water. I do this to relax.

I better grab one of those Oatmeal Stouts or I will find myself measuring vessels and firing up my Excel spreadsheet with the handy dandy formulas. If I catch myself measuring curvatures, I will be coming back here mad at you!

 

[h22lude]

Does not compute. If OCD, buy an accurate scale and measure not just your water, but everything else correctly. If not, do not.

Read my post you quoted. I said I have a hop scale. I do measure everything besides my water.

Give that man a cigar!

So, if you decide to use weight as your standard I must ask, when was the last time you had your scale calibrated? The consensus standard for accuracy is that scales should be calibrated every six months.

As part of my job I design water tanks. You can't go wrong using accurate, physical dimensions and the fact that there are 231 cubic inches of water to a gallon at room temperature.

For instance, if you measure a 10 gallon boil kettle accurately you can even determine the loss from the curve form of the bottom but that is being a little to anal. I would put my money on the guy with the stainless steel scale (a measuring device, not to be confused with a "ruler" which has added length) to be the one who is most accurate of all posters in this thread.

Personally, I got better things to worry about than a few cups of water. I do this to relax.

I better grab one of those Oatmeal Stouts or I will find myself measuring vessels and firing up my Excel spreadsheet with the handy dandy formulas. If I catch myself measuring curvatures, I will be coming back here mad at you!

What's the difference between a steel scale and ruler? The only thing I have is a tape measure.

If it was only a few cups I wouldn't worry either. My 2 gallon mark was over 2 cups off. For 8 gallons, that is over 1/2 gallon off each batch.

 

[jr72023]

Read my post you quoted. I said I have a hop scale. I do measure everything besides my water.



What's the difference between a steel scale and ruler? The only thing I have is a tape measure.

If it was only a few cups I wouldn't worry either. My 2 gallon mark was over 2 cups off. For 8 gallons, that is over 1/2 gallon off each batch.

A 12 inch scale is 12 inches long. A ruler always has additional length. Rulers are used to lay upon something for a "close enough" measurement and have thick demarcations. A 12" scale will be exactly 12" long with narrow lines, designed to be accurate to begin with. You buy rulers at Office Depot. You buy scales from companies that supply precision instruments.

Your tape measure is probably more precise than your hop scale. Overload your hop scale and it can be way off with no notice. Overload the tape measure and it is just a bi** to retract but still accurate. Plus, unless you have bent the tang on the end, tape measure don't require calibration.

However.....

Get a grip.

Relax. If you are using too much water you will figure it out in just a few brews. Keep records, if you must, and then adjust. There are far more important things to consider. For example, what to brew next.

If you do let your OCD get out of control, for God's sake, don't go to a rims system. The cost of flowmeters would be outrageous.

 

[Yooper]

Jeez. I just found this thread, and I feel like I can't delete posts and fix it and make it "nice".

Since our #1 rule in HBT is unwritten (don't be a dick), I will just close this thread with that.