How do craft/commercial brewers get their beers in stores so fast.

[scoundrel]

I was watching an episode of Brewmasters and good old Sam mentioned something about getting a beer from boil to serve in around 4 weeks. How do they condition beer so fast? After 4 weeks many if not all of my beers still have "green" beer flavor. I can't imagine that a beer would be ready to sell and taste great in a month.

Would tricks like filtering or fining agents like Biofine Clear make a difference? Perhaps he has a beercraft time machine. Any thoughts?

 

[petep1980]

I think bottling lines help.

 

[I_B_Mongo]

I think it's a combination of the beercraft time machine and a few other advantages that pro brewers have over us homebrewers. From what I understand, they pitch yeast at higher rates and the conicals are conducive to faster fermentations, as well as the fact that they have a lot of temperature control over their tanks.

 

[breez7]

Tons of reasons, heres a few:

They pitch extremely healthy yeast at the correct rate.

They ferment at the correct temperatures and they know exactly when the gravity gets to where they want it.

Taste testers tell them when the yeast have cleaned up after themselves and there is no off flavors left.

There lower the OG usually the faster it can be.

I'm sure others will chime in on the other 300 reasons.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

Plate filters....The few times I used my filter it turned my green tasting beer into 3-4 month old conditioned beer. You can either let time clean up your beer or use a filter. This and all the other methods already listed like proper temps, pitching rates and master testers. I love the results of using a filter but actually using one is a completely different matter.

Not so fun.

 

[jamcclureuk]

I think it's a combination of the beercraft time machine and a few other advantages that pro brewers have over us homebrewers. From what I understand, they pitch yeast at higher rates and the conicals are conducive to faster fermentations, as well as the fact that they have a lot of temperature control over their tanks.

I didn't know that conicals are conducive to faster fermentations....... is this true?

 

[rockfish42]

When you ferment beer under pressure it restricts ester formation, this allows you to ferment slightly warmer without causing off flavors. The warmer temps speed up fermentation letting you hit final gravity quicker.

The conical fermenter puts the yeast under a slight amount of pressure, so they can ferment in my reading ~3-5 degrees hotter and achieve the same flavor as a homebrewer that much cooler.

 

[remilard]

When you ferment beer under pressure it restricts ester formation, this allows you to ferment slightly warmer without causing off flavors. The warmer temps speed up fermentation letting you hit final gravity quicker.

The conical fermenter puts the yeast under a slight amount of pressure, so they can ferment in my reading ~3-5 degrees hotter and achieve the same flavor as a homebrewer that much cooler.

It restricts ester production somewhat obviously by restricting the production of alcohol and organic acids which occurs somewhat less obviously because the hydrostatic pressure limits yeast activity which would lead to a slower fermentation. Going warmer just gets them right about to where they would have been with the small batch.

Almost nothing at the commercial level happens faster than it would happen at the home level with modest equipment expenditures. Home brewers have the obvious and huge advantage that their tanks will settle much faster.

Plenty of home brewers can turn beer around just as fast as DFH.

 

[Nickme23]

Almost nothing at the commercial level happens faster than it would happen at the home level with modest equipment expenditures. Home brewers have the obvious and huge advantage that their tanks will settle much faster.

Plenty of home brewers can turn beer around just as fast as DFH.

I completely agree. I routinely turn a beer around in 2-4 weeks from kettle to glass. English Mild and Hefe, a week, 2 tops.

 

[Seven]

Elves?

 

[fancy_pilot]

...more like gnomes, really.

 

[scoundrel]

I completely agree. I routinely turn a beer around in 2-4 weeks from kettle to glass. English Mild and Hefe, a week, 2 tops.

Wow a week or two tops? Share your secret! I've never seen yeast fully clean up in a week and in most cases I reach final gravity around 14-21 days. Then it takes at least a week to clean up acetaldehyde. I primarily brew ales and would love to have them kegged and carbonated in 3 weeks or less. Is there an optimum temperature that you've had consistent results? I usually follow the guidelines of the yeast but maybe I should change it up if you've found a sweet spot.

 

[jds]

I'm not NickMe23, but I can turn "normal" gravity beers (e.g. 1.060 and below) around in two to three weeks as well. There's no secret, and you've already been given the key in this thread:

Tons of reasons, heres a few:

They pitch extremely healthy yeast at the correct rate.

They ferment at the correct temperatures and they know exactly when the gravity gets to where they want it.

These are the big ones for homebrewers IMO. My method is to pitch a 1/2 gallon real wort starter at high krausen, keep the fermenter cool (60-65F) for the first 24-36 hours of fermenting, then allow it to warm to 68-70F. Good aeration and yeast energizer help too.

Second, I taste the beer when I rack from fermenter to keg, usually 2 weeks from brewday. That lets me know if it's close to ready to serve or if it needs more time.

After kegging, I age at around 70F for a few days, then crash-chill, add gelatin for fining, and force-carbonate. This often leaves beer ready to serve three weeks (or less!) after brewday. There's no secret here, just good brewery practice.

NOTE: I do NOT advocate this method for newbie brewers. Time still heals faults in a beer, and unless somebody bought a kit with a stir plate and a fermentation chiller, new brewers often don't have the gear necessary to make this work.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I've never seen yeast fully clean up in a week and in most cases I reach final gravity around 14-21 days. Then it takes at least a week to clean up acetaldehyde.

This seems excessive to me. The vast majority of typical ales should ferment out in just a few days and the majority of the 'clean-up' is done during the last part of fermentation so it shouldn't take anywhere near 3-5 weeks, usually a week is plenty imo. I usually go 2 weeks just to be safe and the beer has almost always been 'still' for at least a week of that time.

 

[ongreystreet]

I think they force carb bottles on those assembly lines, so that's gotta cut a few weeks off.

 

[scoundrel]

These are the big ones for homebrewers IMO. My method is to pitch a 1/2 gallon real wort starter at high krausen, keep the fermenter cool (60-65F) for the first 24-36 hours of fermenting, then allow it to warm to 68-70F. Good aeration and yeast energizer help too.

Second, I taste the beer when I rack from fermenter to keg, usually 2 weeks from brewday. That lets me know if it's close to ready to serve or if it needs more time.

After kegging, I age at around 70F for a few days, then crash-chill, add gelatin for fining, and force-carbonate. This often leaves beer ready to serve three weeks (or less!) after brewday. There's no secret here, just good brewery practice.

NOTE: I do NOT advocate this method for newbie brewers. Time still heals faults in a beer, and unless somebody bought a kit with a stir plate and a fermentation chiller, new brewers often don't have the gear necessary to make this work.

Thanks for your advice! You're process isn't too far off mine but I do see some changes I can make. I usually pitch a quart as opposed to a 1/2 gal so I will bump that up.

Lately I've been fermenting at around 66-68 straight through for 2-3weeks. I do have a fermentation chamber so I will follow your temperature process.

I've never used gelatin since I don't want to cut my dip tubes (although I'm not sure if that's required) and since I keep hearing that its messy and strips flavor (could be bad information).

Thanks again! I'm always looking for ways to improve my process!

 

[jds]

I've never used gelatin since I don't want to cut my dip tubes (although I'm not sure if that's required) and since I keep hearing that its messy and strips flavor (could be bad information).

Totally NOT required. Gelatin does help to settle the beer and produce beer with less (or even no) chill haze, but that's mostly an aesthetic consideration.

It's also NOT required to cut your dip tubes if you fine with gelatin. My diptubes are uncut*, and after gelatin, I get some sludge in the first and last pints out of the keg, but that's about it.

* Does Kosher beer require a cut diptube?

 

[scoundrel]

* Does Kosher beer require a cut diptube?

HAHA! Too funny. Yes but it must be performed by a ordained Rabbi/welder.

 

[TarHeeledTexan]

Wow a week or two tops? Share your secret! I've never seen yeast fully clean up in a week and in most cases I reach final gravity around 14-21 days. Then it takes at least a week to clean up acetaldehyde. I primarily brew ales and would love to have them kegged and carbonated in 3 weeks or less. Is there an optimum temperature that you've had consistent results? I usually follow the guidelines of the yeast but maybe I should change it up if you've found a sweet spot.

I'm drinking a beer right now that I brewed 3 weeks ago and bottled only one week ago. But I've had other beers that took up to four weeks in the bottle before they were good to drink. I haven't taken great notes about that aspect of my brewing, but my gut feeling is that temperature played a pretty good role.

I don't do temp control yet, but the beers I brewed and bottled three weeks ago fermented at ~67 F. On the flip site, I'm pretty sure that the beers that have taken longer to carbonate and become drinkable were done in the summer, when my house temps are in the 70s.

At least for me, yeast pitch rates can't be any part of the reason, as I always use the Wyeast Activator packs. Also, at least for me, I have to use 1 cup corn sugar for a 5 gal batch instead of the 3/4 cup to get a good carbonation. Have no idea why, but this has been the case for all of the beers I've done, be they ales or lagers.

 

[ksbrain]

I think it's all about the yeast pitch rates, with ferment temperatures coming in second. Then they can carbonate faster, plus filtering. It's basically everything they do.

If you're not getting final gravity for three weeks, you're definitely not using enough yeast. Though it could also be temperature swings or inadequate O2.

Just because you always use a smack pack doesn't mean you're always pitching the same number of yeast cells. Are the smack packs always the same age when you use them? It can make a big difference if you're trying to get a fast turnaround.

Just try it yourself. Brew two batches. With one pitch a little yeast. With the other pitch a lot. You'll see the lotsa batch is done fermenting sooner, and thus is ready to drink sooner.

 

[a10t2]

Are you naturally carbonating? That would make it hard to get beer turned around in four weeks. As long as you're force-carbonating, four weeks is generous for an average-gravity ale. Four days of active fermentation, a week of conditioning on the yeast, two days to cold crash, then transfer or drop the yeast, a week of cold conditioning, two days to carbonate and it's on tap or bottled. That's 22 days, and a competent brewer who knows his yeast could easily trim a few days here and there.

As a few other people have suggested, the biggest reason someone wouldn't be able to turn beer around that fast would be under-pitching.

 

[scoundrel]

I never use a smack pack as-is. I always make a starter, but obviously not a big enough one. I don't really have temperature swings but the temps are slightly higher in the summer.

I don't usually force carbonate and have had beer ready to serve in a month but the green beer taste sometimes still exists. I may be over sensitive to green beer taste since others have said they don't taste it.

It sounds like I need to increase my pitch rate and I think I will ferment my ales in my fermentation chamber during the summer. I have 4 beers fermenting around 66-68 right now for about 2 weeks and we'll see how they turn out.

One other note is I'm thinking the yeast strain may also come into play. I'm using WLP041 in one of my beers and it is fermenting at an ungodly slow rate. I thought I messed it up but after reading reviews, it is notorious for taking a long time to ferment.

 

[pjj2ba]

Besides all that everyone has already mentioned, remember, we are homebrewers, we can, and tend to be, a bit lazy when it comes to fermentation. The Pros are running a business, and they can't be. The more batches they can run through a fermenter, the more money they make.

 

[scoundrel]

Very true. In most cases I'm in no real hurry and am a firm believer in "time is your friend" when it comes to brewing beer. There are times, however, when you'll be asked to bring a keg to a party and you need to whip something up in just a few weeks. It's times like these that you need a few tricks up your sleeve. I'm not afraid to try off the wall beer recipes but when I serve home brew at parties, my main focus is on quality. I've met a lot of new friends who didn't realize that you could make beer at home that rivals, if not exceeds commercial quality. I appreciate all of the great tips and more are always welcome

 

[curlyfat]

This is a sticky in the General Techniques forum:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/aging-beer-facts-myths-discussion-84005/

It has a lot of good info on turning you beer around in a short time. I can serve my Pale Ale in 10 days if I'm really on top of it (and use a filter). Generally, though, I'm serving in about 3 weeks.

 

[scoundrel]

Oh wow curlyfat I totally missed that. Great post thanks!

 

[pjcampbell]

What does the filtering do, and how finely do you filter?

 

[remilard]

What does the filtering do, and how finely do you filter?

It removes suspended particles.

Some breweries sterile filter at around .5 microns (absolute). More common is filtration around 3 microns which removes haze forming compounds and larger yeast cells.

Many beers around turned around in 4 weeks or less without filtration though.

 

[a10t2]

What does the filtering do, and how finely do you filter?

Filtering strips out particulates. Typical sizes would be ~5-7 micron (to exclude only yeast - that would be most brewpubs and micros), 1-3 micron (to also exclude chill haze - think macro lagers) and sub-micron (to also strip out the beery flavor and color and make malt beverages).

Edit: Got beaten to the draw on that one.

 

[BendBrewer]

I think they force carb bottles on those assembly lines, so that's gotta cut a few weeks off.

They actually bottle carbonated beer. Even the guys that say they bottle condition are only getting a fraction of the total Co2 while in the bottle.

They ferment the beer to a specific gravity. Close the fermenter and allow the rest of the fermentation to carb the beer almost all the way. Filter the beer and bring the Co2 to desired level via a stone in the bright beer tank.

Fill bottles with carbonated beer. Cap. Sell.