How about a CO2 Capture system?

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Sir Humpsalot

Sir Humpsalot

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Why not collect your CO2 and use it for everything? For carbing, for dispensing, for pushing beer around, etc? I know some folks do it with Better Bottles. Why not take it a step farther and serve with it too?

Back when I was in college, we had a little device that could be used to step up pressure on pneumatic devices. It was some sort of pneumatic hand pump. I can't remember the specifics though. Anyway, I was wondering if it could be done? It'd be a way to keep yourself "off the CO2 grid" so to speak. One less trip to make in your beer brewing endeavors.

Anyway, I'm thinking to plastic bottles, upside down, connected at the bottom, and filled with water. One bottle has a blow off tube on top that runs into the sink. The other has an intake tube to accept the CO2 from your ferment. The CO2 pushes out the water and pretty soon you have 5 or six gallons of unpressurized CO2.

Now use the hand pump to squeeze that CO2 into a tank for storage.
 
I'd imagine the extra effort, plus equipment needed to compress the gas enough to be useful (force carbing, serving) would outweight any real benefit from doing that.

I'd also think that without decent equipment, you'd not be able to preserve the purity of the gas.
 
Wait wait, don't tell me. The hand pump thing is only about 3 grand. heavy duty scuba divers who mix their own gasses use one to pull the last bit of Oxygen or helium out of teh big tanks and push it in to the diving tanks. It's a _____ (some dude's name).

We wouldn't need the three thousand dollar one since we aren't looking to pump to 1600, 1800, 2400psi. I wonder how much a 12psi one is. Hmmm.

EDIT: They call them booster pumps now. Happy to say i think I stayed on the hobby side of the scuba mental illness. Google "homemade trimix" if you want to see some others:

http://www.brianb.org/images/Scuba/Homemade/Gas Booster/gas_booster.htm
 
I think you could use a sleeping bag and a blowoff hose and then plumb the collected gas to your burners, too.
 
It would certainly work. You'd need several cornies full of CO2 for each one you carb/dispense because of the relatively low pressures a hand pump would give you (although a good bicycle pump can get you to 125 psi). Lubricating oil from the pump might also be a problem as will be controlling the inflow. Most hand pumps are wide open on the intake.
 
You do realize that the CO2 inside a keg setup is liquid CO2, right? 5lbs of liquid CO2, converting to pressurized gas inside the regulator.

its like 800-900psi at room temperature.

It might be a cool experiment, but for practical use, it would be far more effort vs. $12 for a refill that lasts me 10+ cornies.
 
david_42 said:
It would certainly work. You'd need several cornies full of CO2 for each one you carb/dispense because of the relatively low pressures a hand pump would give you (although a good bicycle pump can get you to 125 psi). Lubricating oil from the pump might also be a problem as will be controlling the inflow. Most hand pumps are wide open on the intake.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about something a little bit more advanced than a bicycle pump...
 
Hey Everybody, Quick Come On Over Here And Be A Jack Ass To The Guy With A Different Idea. Let's All Tell Him How Stupid His Idea Is And Then Tell Him To Stop Thinking For Himself And Just Do Things The Exact Same Way That Everyone Else Does!!!!!!!!!! Hurry Up Or Else It May Catch On And Real Thought And Innovation Could Start Running Rampent!!
 
shafferpilot said:
Hey Everybody, Quick Come On Over Here And Be A Jack Ass To The Guy With A Different Idea. Let's All Tell Him How Stupid His Idea Is And Then Tell Him To Stop Thinking For Himself And Just Do Things The Exact Same Way That Everyone Else Does!!!!!!!!!! Hurry Up Or Else It May Catch On And Real Thought And Innovation Could Start Running Rampent!!
Click to expand...
:confused: whaaaat?
 
shafferpilot said:
Hey Everybody, Quick Come On Over Here And Be A Jack Ass To The Guy With A Different Idea. Let's All Tell Him How Stupid His Idea Is And Then Tell Him To Stop Thinking For Himself And Just Do Things The Exact Same Way That Everyone Else Does!!!!!!!!!! Hurry Up Or Else It May Catch On And Real Thought And Innovation Could Start Running Rampent!!
Click to expand...

Confused as well........ I have no problem with home brewers reclaiming CO2. I try everything I can to save CO2 and only use it in my brewery to purge kegs, transfer from my fermenter, and serve. I am working out a way to purge my serving keg with fermentation CO2 and to even have the serving keg under as much as 15 psi ready to counter pressure transfer from my fermentation Sanke. I don't know what was meant by the comment that was quoted, but I assume shafferpilot was kidding about how someone will come here and piss on the idea. I understand talking out loud and getting ideas though and leave it up to the mods to remove "junk" from the forum if it is junk, otherwise this is how someone gets ideas to a finished product.
 
wortmonger said:
Confused as well........ I have no problem with home brewers reclaiming CO2. I try everything I can to save CO2 and only use it in my brewery to purge kegs, transfer from my fermenter, and serve. I am working out a way to purge my serving keg with fermentation CO2 and to even have the serving keg under as much as 15 psi ready to counter pressure transfer from my fermentation Sanke. I don't know what was meant by the comment that was quoted, but I assume shafferpilot was kidding about how someone will come here and piss on the idea. I understand talking out loud and getting ideas though and leave it up to the mods to remove "junk" from the forum if it is junk, otherwise this is how someone gets ideas to a finished product.
Click to expand...


Sorry, I thought the sarcasm was pretty clear. I AM in support of anyone willing to think up new ideas. I think that's exactly what this country was founded on. I think that recently there have been a lot of people around here that get off on telling people to stop thinking and conform. It's been ticking me off more and more. I've been moderated for standing up to these jerks and I don't care if it happens again. I don't even care if I get booted from the site. I just can't stand it when a GOOD idea gets treated like that.

I for one, love the idea of recapturing CO2 because CO2 production carries a HUGE carbon footprint especially since the CO2 that we as brewers use is always vented into the atmosphere at some point:( Is it going to be difficult to figure out how to make this work? Of course it is. Is it impossible and stupid? NO!!! It's a good idea that needs the input of lots of people to figure out exactly how to go about it.

OP Good luck on this one. I think it can be done. Try to ignore the a-holes that only have crap to say, they wouldn't know a real idea if it smacked 'em in the face.
 
OK, I've re-read the entire thread and I'm still searching for the A-hole other than myself... I took every post in the thread in jest except for yours?

P.P.P.S - Sir Humpsalot
 
I think everyone got your sarcasm, the confusion was because nobody appeared to be ridiculing the OP. There was a legitimate discussion where some thought it a good idea and other not so much. I personally didn't think there was any disrespect shown or any real attempt to discourage innovation.
 
Now, I do agree with negative but constructive criticism. The people that have scientific or mathematical proof to counter an idea is of great help to me. I used to visit a site that has a pretty active chat, and they were anti-any idea from what they did. "Talking" an idea through was not in their vocabulary, but telling you how idiotic you were for thinking it was. Steam is what got me angry with them, because no matter what you were an idiot for even thinking about steam unless you bought a huge boiler that was specific for the purpose. I found this forum and damned if a brilliant bunch of people weren't thinking about steam too. Funny, what I was talking about in their site has been taken to completion in this one with testing and information. Just goes to show their are different ways of thinking and learning, and until you can "prove" to me through constructive-informative-negative criticism my idea will not be wavered. Prove one point wrong, and I will try to correct and repost the idea :D That's just how my brain rolls. Well, that and I am constantly proving people wrong on a daily basis with stupid meaningless things because 1 and 4 Americans is mentally retarded.
 
Ouch, ok you got me. I hate when I type too fast and don't think, lol. Are mentally retarded!!!! Wait that's not PC, how about 1 in 4 Americans are mentally challenged. There, funny and PC :D
 
shafferpilot said:
...recently there have been a lot of people around here that get off on telling people to stop thinking and conform. It's been ticking me off more and more....I just can't stand it when a GOOD idea gets treated like that.
...Try to ignore the a-holes that only have crap to say, they wouldn't know a real idea if it smacked 'em in the face.
Click to expand...
:confused: :confused: Still not sure who you're talking to...
 
wortmonger said:
....1 and 4 Americans is mentally retarded.
Click to expand...

Actually, it's "1 in 4 Americans...."

Oh.. and "is" is correct. "Are" is incorrect. We are talking about ONE in four. One person in four is mentally retarded. The other three out of four are not mentally retarded.
 
Sir Humpsalot said:
Oh.. and "is" is correct. "Are" is incorrect. We are talking about ONE in four. One person in four is mentally retarded. The other three out of four are not mentally retarded.
Click to expand...

One in four is a multiple, it is a quater of the population so is plural.
 
Bah Humbug said:
One in four is a multiple, it is a quater of the population so is plural.
Click to expand...

Don't you mean, "one in four are a multiple..."?

I'll side with the 92% of american language experts who disagree with you... ;)

one of a greater number. When constructions headed by one appear as the subject of a sentence or relative clause, there may be a question as to whether the verb should be singular or plural. The sentence One of every ten rotors was found defective is perfectly grammatical, but sometimes people use plural verbs in such situations, as in One of every ten rotors have defects. In an earlier survey, 92 percent of the Usage Panel preferred the singular verb in such sentences.
Click to expand...

http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/043.html

Or...

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/one.htm
The phrases "one in [plural number]" and "more than one" always take a singular verb:

* One in four dentists recommends this toothpaste.
* One out of every five instructors gets this question wrong.
* There is more than one reason for this.
* More than one lad has lost his heart to this lass.

The "one" in the phrase "more than one" apparently controls the number of the verb. It is probably wise not to attempt to divine some of the mysteries of the English language.
Click to expand...
 
So, how is the research on CO2 collection going? I was wondering, just a question for something I am wanting to do maybe, if they have to scrub the CO2 in big breweries before use? I figure it is because they are force-carbonating with it and it would introduce "other-than-CO2 molecules" in your beer? I ask because if one were to have already carbonated the beer, and only required serving pressure (with the un-scrubbed collected CO2), would you have to scrub it or would it be ok for this specific use? I have never done a lager but understand they through off some funky smells (sulphur) that would be with any "collected" CO2 that wasn't scrubbed. If this is possible, then I wonder how far a 5 gallon Sanke filled with reclaimed CO2 and pressured to 15 psi would get you serving at below 6 psi in your serving keg. I don't know much about the amount of CO2 required for a keg to be served, or if the pressure in the CO2 keg would drop below 6 psi way before the keg is floated. It would just be interesting knowledge for me to know, so if anyone has the answer please chime in :D.
 
For anyone that's serious; everything you need to know is in this thread:
http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=7848

It's a long thread, but that's because the guy that did it was a pioneer. IMO it works as a proof of concept, but I have yet to hear about anyone making it practical.
If you can make this work in a reasonable amount of time with a reasonable cost, then by all means, post it.

But read that thread. No one seemed to even look for it.
We'd much rather speculate??
 
Couldn't you finish fermentation in a keg with a pressure regulator without extra co2 or sugar? Sorry if that has been covered.
 
Reading it now:ban: , it is just starting to get interesting. I can't believe I didn't find this when searching. I am researching so many things right now though, but I am going to read the entire thread. Thanks again.
 
How about feeding the CO2 to your Hop vines in a green house? They will flourish and provide you with more Hops for your brewsky.
 
One use for CO2 coming out of the fermenters would be into the corn patch, at least in summer time.

I forget what i was reading up on at the time, but I read somewhere that during daylight hours in "the corn belt" the rate limiting step for corn growth is that there is no detectable CO2 in the air among the corn plants. As soon as a carbon molecule becomes available, one or another of the corn plants snatches it up.

So you could maybe just run a 2" diameter line from the airlock on the fermenter out to the garden...

EDIT: Not that you would brew wth the corn, I was just thinking of a cheap way to get high utilization out of the by-product.
 
olllllo said:
No one seemed to even look for it.
Click to expand...

I have been trying to find this alleged "Green Board" for weeks, I've googled and searched HBT and such.... Nobody ever bothered to mention that it wasn't CALLED "the Green Board". It's just the colour green. ... EACs, roast me now.
 
Wow, I took my time but 5 1/2 hours later I read the damn thing. This is exactly what I had in mind except that I would try to compress the gas into a CO2 bottle of just the right size to serve a 15.5 Sanke. Thanks again ollllo, great read. I have to say though that The first 100 pages of that read was like poor OldFart was trying to walk through thick mud. All the naysayers should have just budded out. That happens here to, but not as much and I really like that. People that don't want to hear about what is said in a thread should, well....... not read the thread. Everyone has the need to say something negative without scientific or mathematical proof. I really hate that and it made for a much longer thread to read than should have been. Without all the negative unfounded responses and off topic things that were said, 40 pages would have been 10.
 
wortmonger said:
Wow, I took my time but 5 1/2 hours later I read the damn thing. This is exactly what I had in mind except that I would try to compress the gas into a CO2 bottle of just the right size to serve a 15.5 Sanke. Thanks again ollllo, great read. I have to say though that The first 100 pages of that read was like poor OldFart was trying to walk through thick mud. All the naysayers should have just budded out. That happens here to, but not as much and I really like that. People that don't want to hear about what is said in a thread should, well....... not read the thread. Everyone has the need to say something negative without scientific or mathematical proof. I really hate that and it made for a much longer thread to read than should have been. Without all the negative unfounded responses and off topic things that were said, 40 pages would have been 10.
Click to expand...


+1

But I'm only on page 24 of the thread. I'm a slow reader. :eek:

Good read though, for sure. And I don't like the water heater idea. I think some plastic carboys would be more functional. But the guy did it. The proof is in the pudding.
 
I rather like playing devil's advocate when people come in advertising their great new ideas. If everyone does nothing but a bunch of back patting, there's no validation or interogation of the theory. Quite frankly, if someone wants to be an innovator, they have to be able to defend their ideas anyway.

I think the biggest issue with CO2 collection and reuse is the lack of economy of scale. We're not producing enough to justify the cost of the compressor required to bottle it in traditional high pressure tanks.

I've thought about using a diaphram tank like the ones used in hot water heating systems. If you use a pressurized fermenter like a sanke and compress the CO2 into the expansion tank, you can then close off the valve and move the tank to some other use. You can then use an air compressor on the other side of the diaphram to fully evacuate the CO2 or boost the pressure a bit.

It's a money losing proposition though when you can get your 20lb tanks filled for $20.
 

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