House paint that doesn't suck? Home restoration.

[Still Brewn]

So I have a craftsmas style house that was built in 1915. First floor all brick, second floor all stucco. All the trim around the windows is wood along with the eaves etc. Originally the woodwork was was stained and shellaced I would have liked to have returned it to that but a hundred years of paint and nail holes have made that an impossible task without replacing 99% of the wood. The white paint and pink paint and red paint stuck in the nail holes gouged etc just showes up too much. I am however removing the paint down to the wood but after doing a couple windows a year ago I'm finding the paint the wife picked sucks big green ones. So bad that I'm going to have to scrape the stuff I did already and do it again. It was Behr paint and primer in one. It went on so thin that it took 3 coats to get proper coverage. So I guess my question is does anyone have suggestions on a paint? I thought about an epoxy paint, the kind they use in a factory setting to restore old windows.... does anyone have experience with that? I've seen it used several times on this old house but never used it myself.....

 

[Still Brewn]

This is the stuff I used

 

[Still Brewn]

Here is just one example of how bad it sucks.

That is a window sill made with new wood, the dimples are hail damage but you can see cracking, chipping etc elsewhere. The paint is only a year old and should not look like it is 20 years old. I'm very disappointed in the quality of that paint. At $25 a gallon it should last more than a year. This picture isn't even the worst of it, it is just too windy today for me to get on a ladder.

 

[mongoose33]

A few observations.

One, surface prep is everything. It looks like what's happening in that photo is coming from underneath. That doesn't mean you didn't do good surface prep, but that either there is moisture coming through the holes from the underside, or some other something is attacking the paint from the underside.

Two, was the new wood completely dry? That can hurt adhesion if it's not.

Three, these paint-and-primer-in-one things are great except....in trying to do two things, neither is done optimally. Along w/ the surface prep is key, so is having a great primer under the top layer.

Three, you get (usually) what you pay for. Now, I'm sure that the Behr paint was not cheap; I suspect between $30 and $40 per gallon, so I'm not accusing you of cheaping out. You didn't. But primer is designed to stick and to provide an excellent surface to which the top coat can adhere. Trying to do both in one can means you're not going to get optimal performance from either.

If it were me, I'd do two separate coats, after good surface prep. One the best primer you can buy, and then a good quality top coat.

********

This is not specific to you, just an observation. I learned a long time ago that cheap paint is cheap for a reason. It doesn't have a high level of solids, so it won't cover well. That leads to having to paint it twice (or even thrice!), which doubles the paint cost, and results in extra time cost. So I learned--the hard way--to stop buying cheap and start buying quality. Haven't regretted it since.

 

[Minky]

A professional house painter friend of mine uses PPG paint. Sherwin Williams is also good.

 

[Still Brewn]

Yes I know .... prep is everything and the paint in primer sucks. I told the wife that now she knows first hand and I have to redo the work. It may look like the damage is coming from unde the paint but we were hit with a hailstorm that was directed at that side of the house. The new wood was sitting in my basement for a year before it was installed and was actually installed on the house 10 years ago. I removed the paint last spring and repainted it while I was doing a doorway right next to that window I wanted the whites to match and I didn't want a buildup of paint. The old paint was removed with a heat gun. I wasn't allowed to drive myself anywhere or I would have picked the paint myself and would have gotten separate paint and primer.... The wife started letting me drive again so now before o go spending money on something I want some opinions/suggestions.

 

[Still Brewn]

I will check out ppg, I have had too many experiences with old paint from the Sherwin Williams located here to use it. I use to buy my traffic paint from them and had too much down time removing clogs from equipment and paint that would remain tacky for so long that it wold have to be repainted because of tire marks.

 

[Still Brewn]

By the way I would have been thinking that I did something wrong at first glance also but I'm getting the same cracking, flaking, etc on old wood, new wood, exposed wood and completely sheltered wood and all of it was stripped, sanded, vacuumed and wiped down. The same process I used when I replaced a couple of Windows about ten years ago and are still holding up. What really makes me mad is that I made a bunch of panels to enclose an overhang on the back of the house that are going to need stripped and refinished.

 

[Still Brewn]

As you can see from that picture there are 2 colors of white, that is why I redid the window in the first picture, same brand of paint, 2 separate cans a year apart, the older darker color has been on there 2 years all new wood, in my basement 4 years or more. The paint is holding up so far, sleight cracking at the joints in the corners last year so i touched them up and you can see the difference in color. The longer board across the top of the picture is new wood left in the summer sun for a week and put in the garage at night. It was then sanded vacuumed and wiped down. It was then installed and covered with a tarp for a week and then painted with the new paint. It has micro cracking. It will be stripped and repainted also.

 

[mongoose33]

Yes I know .... prep is everything and the paint in primer sucks. I told the wife that now she knows first hand and I have to redo the work. It may look like the damage is coming from unde the paint but we were hit with a hailstorm that was directed at that side of the house. The new wood was sitting in my basement for a year before it was installed and was actually installed on the house 10 years ago. I removed the paint last spring and repainted it while I was doing a doorway right next to that window I wanted the whites to match and I didn't want a buildup of paint. The old paint was removed with a heat gun. I wasn't allowed to drive myself anywhere or I would have picked the paint myself and would have gotten separate paint and primer.... The wife started letting me drive again so now before o go spending money on something I want some opinions/suggestions.

I figured you'd probably done the prep correctly but it was worth exploring.

My opinion/suggestion is to do separate primer and top coats with as high-quality paint as you can afford.

 

[Still Brewn]

Cost is no issue but that said I am a cheepass but I will spend whatever I have to to do this properly. My wife and I are planning on retiring in this house and I don't want to pay for paint or get on a ladder again after this is finished so quality is what is I am looking for but price does not indicate quality. So I am looking for real world experience with actual paint that is available in today's market.

 

[mongoose33]

Cost is no issue but that said I am a cheepass but I will spend whatever I have to to do this properly. My wife and I are planning on retiring in this house and I don't want to pay for paint or get on a ladder again after this is finished so quality is what is I am looking for but price does not indicate quality. So I am looking for real world experience with actual paint that is available in today's market.

I don't see there as being much if any difference between high quality paints. It would never occur to me to focus on a brand. As long as they're a reputable manufacturer, I'd expect the paint to perform--again, not the cheap stuff but the pricier stuff. I've used Royal paint from Ace Hardware, Mautz paint (which was acquired by Sherwin Williams), Dutch Boy, Pittsburgh.....I'd use 'em again.

Since you want this to be the last time you do this.....

 

[November]

What's your application method? I repainted my stucco and wood house last summer. I tried rolling and then used a high quality sprayer. The quality went way up when I used the sprayer. I used Glidden, but since I went darker I didn't prime.

Good luck. I hate painting but was pleased when it was done.

 

[Still Brewn]

What's your application method? I repainted my stucco and wood house last summer. I tried rolling and then used a high quality sprayer. The quality went way up when I used the sprayer. I used Glidden, but since I went darker I didn't prime.

Good luck. I hate painting but was pleased when it was done.

The stucco I will use a sprayer and for all the trim I am using a roller and then a brush where that doesn't fit. I have used glidden in the past but that was 30 years ago. I have to prime because I am removing All of the poorly applied paint layers, I wish I didn't but want the job done right and I would rather spend my time working on the indoor bar and the outdoor bar and kitchen.

 

[Nubiwan]

Benjamin Moore paint anyone? Can't speak for their products 18 years later, but I used whatever exterior product they sold back then, over top of some fairly old cedar shingle and was happy with the results for 4-5 years, if not longer. House built 1870, so it was an oldie.

I never repainted the place and later sold it. Yes it faded slightly with time, but it faded evenly, and very hard to notice. I think you are expecting too much for it to last much longer here in Canada. Now If I lived in a more moderate climate, I might expect better. I should also point out that I lived oceanside, at the time, so that must say a fair bit about how the paint held up for me. Must have a picture somewhere. Check below.

I own a few rentals, and do not use Benjamin Moore in any of my rental houses (inside) as it is cost prohibitive, but the quality of their interior paints is exceptional. Great coverage and durabilitty. I think their exterior is equally high quality. At least, it used to be.

My house was fully scraped down, and primed, and obviously some old siding was removed. The prime paint was a light pink and blue as I recall. Wish I took a picture while they did it. If you zoom on the cellar door in my picture, I used just standard marine paint on that, and you can see how it never lasted. I was painting it every year, or ignoring it more likely.

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

Benjamin Moore is what I used throughout my house it's great stuff

 

[MaxStout]

+1 on the separate primer and topcoat. The primer + topcoat paints are always a compromise.

Always had very good results with Valspar. I used it to paint a 10x20' shed in 2007 and it's held up to Minnesota climate quite well.

 

[user 30639]

I just had my house painted, got quotes from probably 8 different companies. All of them use Sherwin Williams paint. Take that for whatever it’s worth.

Also, the logo for SW looks like something a Bond villain would have.

 

[passedpawn]

So I have a craftsmas style house that was built in 1915. First floor all brick, second floor all stucco. All the trim around the windows is wood along with the eaves etc. Originally the woodwork was was stained and shellaced I would have liked to have returned it to that but a hundred years of paint and nail holes have made that an impossible task without replacing 99% of the wood. The white paint and pink paint and red paint stuck in the nail holes gouged etc just showes up too much. I am however removing the paint down to the wood but after doing a couple windows a year ago I'm finding the paint the wife picked sucks big green ones. So bad that I'm going to have to scrape the stuff I did already and do it again. It was Behr paint and primer in one. It went on so thin that it took 3 coats to get proper coverage. So I guess my question is does anyone have suggestions on a paint? I thought about an epoxy paint, the kind they use in a factory setting to restore old windows.... does anyone have experience with that? I've seen it used several times on this old house but never used it myself.....

Are you painting over oil paint? Get a little nail polish remover and rub it on the existing paint with a cotton ball or pure white cloth. If some of the paint comes off, it's latex and you can use that behr paint. If nothing comes off, you've got oil paint there.

If you determine it's oil, you'll need to use an oil primer first before you can use the latex paint.

 

[Still Brewn]

Thanks for all the input guys.... been so busy around here I have been unable to even get on here and keep updated.
It is latex, 4 and 5 coats in most places, 6-8 in others.
Then a layer of shellac
Then a layer of dark, transparent stain
We are removing All of the paint we can because the texture is so rough in most places and looks really bad. We are also refreshing the shellac on any weathered wood enough to seal the wood but not build up the surface. Basically wood hardener at 3 to 1ratio for any of you who know about shellac. After that a second light sanding and cleaning. Then applying paint. There are also a number of pieces I am taking off to install insulation, those will be resurfaced with a planer.

 

[BruceH]

My house paint is 20 years old and still good. It was applied in one coat over primed Hardy Board siding. However, the caulking hasn't lasted 20 years and I've had to re-caulk a few times so I've decided to repaint anyways.

The paint that went on 20 years ago was latex from Ace Hardware. IIRC it was made by Parker Paint. Parker is now PPG. I'm repainting with a PPG made paint that was purchased from a big box hardware store.

I'm fairly certain you can get a hefty discount on one of the expensive brands that advertise all the time if you know someone with a contractors license who doesn't mind making the purchase for you. At least that's what the interwebs say when I research paint.

Good luck with the project. I have 25% of my house painted and I can tell you that it's more difficult at 53 years old vs the last time when I was 33.

 

[Still Brewn]

Concrete siding.... that explains why it lasted so long. I almost wish we had the same. A friend's house has the same thing and hasn't had to be painted since I've known him. And it was painted sometime 20+ years before. Not sure what with but it still has the same ugly green color. It was more than likely some kind of stain.

 

[Soulshine2]

So I have a craftsmas style house that was built in 1915. First floor all brick, second floor all stucco. All the trim around the windows is wood along with the eaves etc. Originally the woodwork was was stained and shellaced I would have liked to have returned it to that but a hundred years of paint and nail holes have made that an impossible task without replacing 99% of the wood. The white paint and pink paint and red paint stuck in the nail holes gouged etc just showes up too much. I am however removing the paint down to the wood but after doing a couple windows a year ago I'm finding the paint the wife picked sucks big green ones. So bad that I'm going to have to scrape the stuff I did already and do it again. It was Behr paint and primer in one. It went on so thin that it took 3 coats to get proper coverage. So I guess my question is does anyone have suggestions on a paint? I thought about an epoxy paint, the kind they use in a factory setting to restore old windows.... does anyone have experience with that? I've seen it used several times on this old house but never used it myself.....

if just one of those layers of old paint is oil based you wont get much to stick well ,itll just gum up or just peel off in small sheets. If youre having color bleed through issues,get a bucket of Kilz . After that Sherwin Williams . In the past we've had good results with Behr but that was stain ,not paint. (Quality) Epoxy is a great product. Paint over nearly anything and almost anything can go over it.

 

[Still Brewn]

However, the caulking hasn't lasted 20 years and I've had to re-caulk a few times so I've decided to repaint anyways.

I have had the same issues with caulk. Try siliconized acrylic latex caulk. Make sure it has a warrant of 30+ years on it. I was getting some previously that had a 45 year warranty but could only find some with 40 the other day. Plain latex shrinks and hardens and eventually will crack and fail, I've had failure in as little as 2 years with latex and as long at 10 but even at 10 the failure was unacceptable. Pure silicone caulk is great for some things but have had it fail on natural things like wood in less time than the siliconized stuff. It is also not paintable making it stand out if it is not the right color. In my opinion the clear also stands out more. For as little as $1 more a tube over latex the siliconized stuff is well worth the money. A couple of notes before use....
Some brands gather dust even after dry so don't smear it where it will be noticeable or wash it off areas you don't want it.
It stays very flexible even after dry so if you are using it for a temporary seal it may be hard to cut when removing although not impossible.
It is paintable but is also so flexible it may need a second coat of paint down the road.

 

[day_trippr]

How do folks feel about full acrylic outdoor paint?

I've always used oil-based stains - both of our houses are clad in rough-side-out white cedar - but they're becoming problematic to obtain at a reasonable cost, and frankly the performance has been going down hill over the years as the manufacturers try to get in the low-VOC ballpark. Won't use exterior latex so acrylic is looking like the only way going forward, if it stands up well...

Cheers!

 

[BruceH]

How do folks feel about full acrylic outdoor paint?

I've always used oil-based stains - both of our houses are clad in rough-side-out white cedar - but they're becoming problematic to obtain at a reasonable cost, and frankly the performance has been going down hill over the years as the manufacturers try to get in the low-VOC ballpark. Won't use exterior latex so acrylic is looking like the only way going forward, if it stands up well...

Cheers!

I had always thought that latex paint contained acrylic. Just went to look on one of the paint cans and it has printed "100% acrylic". It's water based.

 

[day_trippr]

Latex /= acrylic, but some latex paints do indeed have some percentage of acrylic.
I'm looking for opinions on full acrylic/0% latex...

Cheers!

 

[Still Brewn]

I went to research acrylic versus latex paint..... what a disaster! The first page that pops up on yahoo is apparently wrong as a commentor pointed out after that several other articles looked like they copied the same wrong information so I cam away with no credible information whatsoever.

 

[Soulshine2]

not sure if this would affect your answer but what is the method you plan on applying this paint- brush , roller or spray(LPHV). Might make a difference on what you buy .Also , do you strain your paint?

 

[kh54s10]

BTW, Behr has 4 grades and that is the second lowest. Behr Pro being lower.

I agree that with new wood or almost no paint left use a separate primer first. The paint an primer in one (of anyone's paint) is best for painting over a new coat on top of a sound other paint, i.e. just changing the color.

I have use Behr paints for decades and never had any problems. For me it makes no sense to go to Sherwin-Williams or Benjamin Moore and pay 50 to 100% more for a paint that might be a little better.

 

[day_trippr]

Pretty much have to strain exterior stain. Otoh, I've been using 100% acrylic for interior trim but haven't been straining it because it's freaky thick and would take forever.

Right now I'm thinking of switching all my exterior trim from solid stain to something water based. That's where the question arose. It would be strictly brush-on. I'll worry about the siding another year, I just did it last year...


Cheers!

 

[BruceH]

I went to research acrylic versus latex paint..... what a disaster! The first page that pops up on yahoo is apparently wrong as a commentor pointed out after that several other articles looked like they copied the same wrong information so I cam away with no credible information whatsoever.

I went to research acrylic versus latex paint..... what a disaster! The first page that pops up on yahoo is apparently wrong as a commentor pointed out after that several other articles looked like they copied the same wrong information so I cam away with no credible information whatsoever.

Many acrylic water based exterior house paints are advertised as "100% acrylic latex".

Here's an example pulled from the Sherwin-Williams website:




A-100 Exterior Acrylic Latex

• 4.3 Star rating out of 5
• 16 Reviews
• Write a Review

For trusted performance at a great value, A-100® is an A-1 choice. With a 100% acrylic formula that covers well and lasts, A-100 Exterior Latex Paint is a proven performer that meets your expectations and your need to keep an eye on the bottom line.

Here's one of the confusing internet definitions pulled from a duckduckgo search:

Acrylic latex paint is one of a number of water-based paints. It is 100 percent acrylic latex, and is regarded as the best-quality latex paint. Vinyl acrylic latex paints are the most popular acrylic latex paints on the market, as of 2010. Vinyl acrylic latex paint is the most economical because it uses a synthetic polymer, or plastic, as the binder. There are a numerous synthetic polymers that are used for various applications. One hundred percent acrylic resins costs twice as much as vinyl, so paint companies try to balance the two to keep costs down.

All I can take from this is that it's going to be acrylic and vinyl unless it's 100% acrylic latex.

In any case good luck with your house painting. I'm now a little over 50% done and everything is going well. I've been making sure to clean the area to be painted with a 5% bleach solution a few days prior to painting.

 

[Still Brewn]

Been a while since I have been on , I have been way too busy working on our house and have not even had time to brew. Thanks everyone for the input.
We finally settled on Glidden/ PPG Premium. We bought it when home depot was having their sale over the 4th. But the coolest thing I have learned from all of this is that I don't have to use a heat gun like I have been doing. I found a scraper that actually works and will remove all the paint down to bare wood without damaging it. I wish I had found one of these years ago! I found it while I was looking for something better to scrape the paint from the trim in a room we are refinishing and was tired of cleaning out the planer after every pass. It was effective but took just as long to remove the paint with the planer as with the heat gun and scraper. So anyway, I'm looking through the scrapers at the store and see one I had not seen before and decided to give a shot. Holy $hip Batman! Faster than the planer or heat gun and no damage/ gouging. When comparing the wood scraped with a heat gun the planer and the carbide scraper it was a night and day difference.

The one I first got from home depot has a sleight curve to it, I picked up a second blade that is perfectly straight from Lowe's and used it today to scrape the paint from where the edge of the shoe and floor will meet when I install it in this room and I have several curved and a triangle coming from Amazon to attack the trim on the outside of the house where there is crown moulding and other detailed trim.
The only issue I had with it was on fresh paint .... in the sun and 90+ degreese the paint would smear before scraping off.

So to sum up .... If you are going to be removing paint look for carbide blades you will not be sorry. Most of them are double edged. I'm still on my first edge on the ones I have used. The slightly curved one I got from home depot works great and will keep you from digging the corners into your wood. I haven't received the small shave hook blades yet but if they are as effective as the other carbide blades I have used I'm sure I will be more than pleased. Especially considering I have only scraped a dozen windows so far and have gone through to sets of steel shave hook blades and I still have 2 dozen more windows to go plus the detail moulding and crown moulding.

 

[Zuljin]

Primer and paint in one is a lie.

I'd much rather stain than paint the wooden window sills here, but...

40 years of paint has proven impossible to remove. I tired the orange paint peeler, and when they still made it, the green Jasco. The green Jasco was pretty good, just not good enough for whatever the original paint layers are. The orange stuff sucks. What's the best paint? Whatever they had in the late 1970s.

Olympia is fine for sheetrock when used over primer. It has held up well outside, too, again used over primer. Probably need to know that on the outside this is that 1970s engineered wood, not the "real wood" Still Brewn likely has. It's a budget paint though and that shows anywhere we used it that gets touched a lot. The cats and house plants on the "real wood" sills has rubbed it off. Clark+Kensington is what we used last. It's appreciably better than Olympia. It's a primer and paint concoction, but we primed first anyway with Kilz brand primer. We'll be using that combo instead of Olympia from now on.

What brand are these fantastic scrapers? I may try again to remove paint and then stain the sills inside. We've accepted that we will just replace baseboards.

 

[mongoose33]

Primer and paint in one is a lie.

I'd much rather stain than paint the wooden window sills here, but...

40 years of paint has proven impossible to remove. I tired the orange paint peeler, and when they still made it, the green Jasco. The green Jasco was pretty good, just not good enough for whatever the original paint layers are. The orange stuff sucks. What's the best paint? Whatever they had in the late 1970s.

Olympia is fine for sheetrock when used over primer. It has held up well outside, too, again used over primer. Probably need to know that on the outside this is that 1970s engineered wood, not the "real wood" Still Brewn likely has. It's a budget paint though and that shows anywhere we used it that gets touched a lot. The cats and house plants on the "real wood" sills has rubbed it off. Clark+Kensington is what we used last. It's appreciably better than Olympia. It's a primer and paint concoction, but we primed first anyway with Kilz brand primer. We'll be using that combo instead of Olympia from now on.

What brand are these fantastic scrapers? I may try again to remove paint and then stain the sills inside. We've accepted that we will just replace baseboards.

https://www.menards.com/main/paint/...188-c-8076.htm?tid=4341933591251343713&ipos=1

Red Devil makes them. They're counter-intuitive--rather than trying to slide it under the paint to scrape it off, the blade is nearly perpendicular to the surface from which the paint is removed.

It's the only scraper I'll use.

If you buy one, get a pack of extra blade or blades. THey don't last forever, and if you hit a nail or screw or something, you can nick 'em. But still well worth it.

 

[day_trippr]

A heat gun with a spreader and a sharp square putty knife can do wonders...

Cheers!

 

[Still Brewn]

Yes ... real wood and yes I would much rather have stained the wood than paint it but a hundred years of nail holes , scratches and gouges filled with painthave made that impossible. The house was originally stained and covered with shellac.

The scrapers are several brands, Purdy was the first one I got from home depot, then I picked up a straight blade from Lowe's and it was Warner brand, the last one is Bahco 625 ergo and that one came from Amazon and I'm waiting on additional shaped blades for it.

 

[Still Brewn]

I have tried sharpening the the curved blade that came with the Purdy scraper with great success. You cannot use a regular file with carbide you need to go get a diamond hone available at harbor freight to about 12 bucks. Get the4 sided one because it has a base so you don't have to use a clamp to hold it down. Keep your hands out of the path of the blade it will get very sharp! Just sharpening them a couple of times pays for it.
Use the 600 grit side. It only takes a dozen strokes or so depending on how dull you let it get before sharpening it.
Easiest to sharpen from the flat side as shown in the picture.

Keep the hone clean it will make things go faster. Also make sure you get one that is perfectly flat, I got one that had a little ridge in and the blade would get hung up in the ridge slowing things down

 

[Still Brewn]

Another note about these scrapers, I was able to remove the shellac from the floor of a room, recycle it and reapply it to the floor. I was Also able to remove hundred year old paint drips from a door without damaging the original finish too much. I also removed stickers from a mirror. USE CAUTION! When using on glass, carbide will scratch glass and with the right scratch it will break or shatter.

 

[Still Brewn]

As you can see from the picture I did do some damage to the original finish on the lower part of the door but i will repair that. That is the nice thing about shellac it can be repaired unlike polyurethane. Considering all the spots of paint I took off that amount of damage is nothing. There was also paint on the floor below that and into that closet. All of that woodwork in that room was once painted and the only thing I replaced was the shoe. There is no stain on that oak floor it is 3 layers of Garnett shellac (the original shellac from the floor) and 3 additional layers of blond shellac.