Hops didnt come through very well in last batch

[MotoGP1000]

Hey Brew-chachos,

Had an issue on my last brew. The hops didn't come through all that great and I'm not entirely sure why. Asking for thoughts from anyone that experienced the same and what the potential issue was.

I did this go round NO bittering hops. Everything was added around 170degrees for a 45 minutes hopstand.
2oz of Citra
2oz of Mosaic
1oz of Simcoe

Dry hopping happened/is happening in the keg with Motueka hops.

This came out to a very light brew, but I was expecting much more hop characters to shine through with the super late additions. Any ideas on the problem? Maybe because everything was such a late addition I didn't do enough hops?

Grain bill was very simple
Golden Promise
a little honey malt
a little flaked wheat

thanks for any input!

 

[schematix]

Not enough hops. Figure 1lb/5 gallon for a hoppy beer.

I get better results spreading them around... 60/20/10/5/0/dry.

Might be something like 2/1/1/4/4/4. Lots of ways to do it.

Also oxidation takes a toll on hops that’ll render them weak in only a matter of a week or two.

 

[Helloworld]

Do you adjust your water? Water profile can have a big impact on hop character.

 

[MotoGP1000]

Do you adjust your water? Water profile can have a big impact on hop character.

That i haven't done because Im completely water chemistry ignorant. Passed chem class with a .8GPA so these conversations typically take crayons and colored pencils with plenty of pop-up books for me to understand.

That being said.. I use a spring water as opposed to tap so it should be pretty neutral.

 

[MotoGP1000]

Not enough hops. Figure 1lb/5 gallon for a hoppy beer.

I get better results spreading them around... 60/20/10/5/0/dry.

Might be something like 2/1/1/4/4/4. Lots of ways to do it.

Also oxidation takes a toll on hops that’ll render them weak in only a matter of a week or two.

1pound?? That's a #$^% load of hops. I was shooting for a near zero IBU NEIPA, so nothing really went into the boil. I've had good results with similar amount of hops in the hopstand but with 100% citra.
1 pound.. Makes me wonder if there is a certain point there is no more ROI when talking about hops to water volumes. Example.. does 10oz of hops give the same results as 20oz of hops but 10oz is > 6oz. if that makes sense. There has to be some kind of ceiling somewhere

 

[ong]

1pound?? That's a #$^% load of hops. I was shooting for a near zero IBU NEIPA, so nothing really went into the boil. I've had good results with similar amount of hops in the hopstand but with 100% citra.
1 pound.. Makes me wonder if there is a certain point there is no more ROI when talking about hops to water volumes. Example.. does 10oz of hops give the same results as 20oz of hops but 10oz is > 6oz. if that makes sense. There has to be some kind of ceiling somewhere

I think the 5 oz you have as a whirlpool addition are ok. I generally would do another 5 in the fermenter around day 2-3, and then a couple oz of cryo hops (or 3-4 of regular) in the keg. To me the keg hopping is to boost aroma and keep the beer aromatic for the lifespan of the batch.

 

[MotoGP1000]

I think the 5 oz you have as a whirlpool addition are ok. I generally would do another 5 in the fermenter around day 2-3, and then a couple oz of cryo hops (or 3-4 of regular) in the keg. To me the keg hopping is to boost aroma and keep the beer aromatic for the lifespan of the batch.

My big fail here might be the neglect of doing dry hopping in the fermenting stage and depending soley on keg hopping. Since, IMO, aromatics can be perceived also as flavor. This brew seems to be week on aroma even with the 3oz of Motueka floating around in the keg

 

[schematix]

I’m just telling you what it takes to make some delicious hop juice.

Try it sometime. Don’t like it, don’t don’t again. But if you like hoppy beers you may never go back. The ceiling is actually quite a bit higher than this IME but yes there is diminishing return. It’s not about efficiency though.

FYI if you aren’t buying bulk hops this is why you should.

 

[MotoGP1000]

I’m just telling you what it takes to make some delicious hop juice.

Try it sometime. Don’t like it, don’t don’t again. But if you like hoppy beers you may never go back. The ceiling is actually quite a bit higher than this IME but yes there is diminishing return. It’s not about efficiency though.

FYI if you aren’t buying bulk hops this is why you should.

I would def buy bulk dropping a pound in there lol Yeah, to your point it doesn't hurt to try.

My next time I wont skip dry hopping during high krausen either. I think that was a bad move on my part expecting dry hops in the keg to shine through (which they really dont)

 

[schematix]

if you're gonna dry hop in the fermenter do it closer to 1.020. you're going to blow off the volatile compounds doing it that early in fermentation.

 

[Hopalong]

Before adding hops bring the wort to boiling and as the hot break rises skim it off and continue to remove the hot break until it ceases to form or it drastically reduces, then add hops and skim off second break. The wort will be cleaner and hop character sticks better to clean wort. Less hops are needed and less goop will be transferred into the primary fermenter.

The pH of beer is too low for dry hopping to work. Dry hopping causes beer to stale, immediately, after adding hops. Dry hopping is performed in an entirely different manner than the way homebrewers have been instructed about it. The person that came up with the homebrew method didn't have any idea about the conditions that occur when beer is dry hopped. Purchase a Randall instead of dry hopping.

 

[Iseneye]

My big fail here might be the neglect of doing dry hopping in the fermenting stage and depending soley on keg hopping. Since, IMO, aromatics can be perceived also as flavor. This brew seems to be week on aroma even with the 3oz of Motueka floating around in the keg

I love keg hopping but find it takes a good 3 weeks before they have a good effect. I'm no scientist but my guess is the cold temperature of the beer.

 

[Veets]

Dry hopping is performed in an entirely different manner than the way homebrewers have been instructed about it.

Can you enlighten us?

 

[couchsending]

Wow there is so much horrible info here.

Add some hops during the boil. You need a foundation of bitterness.

Water and more importantly pH is hyper critical for hoppy beers.

Don’t add hops before 1.020 at the earliest. It’s Homebrew myth that you should dry hop at high Krausen. It’s literally like lighting money on fire.

If you want crazy hop aromatics you need to dry hop in large amounts at temps over say 58*. Keg hopping is fine but honestly not necessary.

O2 absolutely crushes aromatics. You need to be insanely diligent about O2 pickup after fermentation.

The best hoppy beers on the market are dry hopped at over 4lbs per barrel and most after fermentation and pulling yeast. If you want 5g final volume that’s roughly 12oz DH addition into 6+ gallons factoring in loss from hops.. give or take.

 

[MotoGP1000]

Wow there is so much horrible info here.

Add some hops during the boil. You need a foundation of bitterness.

Water and more importantly pH is hyper critical for hoppy beers.

Don’t add hops before 1.020 at the earliest. It’s Homebrew myth that you should dry hop at high Krausen. It’s literally like lighting money on fire.

If you want crazy hop aromatics you need to dry hop in large amounts at temps over say 58*. Keg hopping is fine but honestly not necessary.

O2 absolutely crushes aromatics. You need to be insanely diligent about O2 pickup after fermentation.

The best hoppy beers on the market are dry hopped at over 4lbs per barrel and most after fermentation and pulling yeast. If you want 5g final volume that’s roughly 12oz DH addition into 6+ gallons factoring in loss from hops.. give or take.

So only contribution to this is a couple things.
1. If introducing dry hops later, doesn’t that add to oxygen in the fermentor?
2. I suck at water Chemistry. Seriously... so they make water chemistry for dummies ?
3. Even with hops added solely at 170degrees I still had some perceived bitterness. Probably from the dry hopping in the keg
4. I dry hop typically st 70degrees when dry hopping in fermentor

 

[couchsending]

So only contribution to this is a couple things.
1. If introducing dry hops later, doesn’t that add to oxygen in the fermentor?
2. I suck at water Chemistry. Seriously... so they make water chemistry for dummies ?
3. Even with hops added solely at 170degrees I still had some perceived bitterness. Probably from the dry hopping in the keg
4. I dry hop typically st 70degrees when dry hopping in fermentor

1. It’s literally how dry hopping has always been done until the torpedo or cannon was invented. And those were adopted to eliminate having to walk up ladders with 50lb bags of hops more than anything. There are ways to do it so you can minimize O2 pickup, just depends on what you’re fermenting in. Dry hopping with piles of yeast in suspension is more detrimental to aromatics in my opinion. Treehouse still dry hops the old fashion way. Pouring them right in through the top.

2. It’s so easy. Get Bru’n water. Build from RO. Get a good pH meter.

3. pH has a huge impact on bitterness. To me only adding hops in the whirlpool makes hollow, one dimensional beer. You can add plenty of hops during the boil with minimal bitterness. Also it has been shown that large dry hop loads actually reduce IBUs in finished beer.

4. Big fan of temps in the lower 60s. Less rotting/over ripe fruit character.

 

[MotoGP1000]

1. It’s literally how dry hopping has always been done until the torpedo or cannon was invented. And those were adopted to eliminate having to walk up ladders with 50lb bags of hops more than anything. There are ways to do it so you can minimize O2 pickup, just depends on what you’re fermenting in. Dry hopping with piles of yeast in suspension is more detrimental to aromatics in my opinion. Treehouse still dry hops the old fashion way. Pouring them right in through the top.

2. It’s so easy. Get Bru’n water. Build from RO. Get a good pH meter.

3. pH has a huge impact on bitterness. To me only adding hops in the whirlpool makes hollow, one dimensional beer. You can add plenty of hops during the boil with minimal bitterness. Also it has been shown that large dry hop loads actually reduce IBUs in finished beer.

4. Big fan of temps in the lower 60s. Less rotting/over ripe fruit character.

Im probably going to start dry hopping again in the fermentor. The keg alone just didn't yield enough for me.
PH is something I'll need to, I guess, just dive into. Pricing PH meters, they seems expensive. Im going to assume the lesser expensive ones aren't as accurate.