Hop Trading/Breeding Programs

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Maybe somebody on this forum that knows far more than I can start a list of proven Males that this group should try to acquire for future breeding plans.

And speaking of males Happy Father's Day y'all.

Miss you dad rest in peace.
 
Did you stratify your seed? Hops require 6-8 weeks of cold stratification for good results.

Of course, you also need good seeds harvest from well ripened actual hop cones.

I've seen pictures from others who were also sold non-hop seeds. Big online stores like Amazon probably aren't the best place to look, focusing on actual seed specialists is a good first step. Though even then, I've had bad germination rates where I've bought. I suspect unripe seeds.

The USDA can supply seeds, but the germination rates are very variable. I've had some lots with 100% germination, but a lot more with 0%. 25-33% is rather common among the accessions I've tried.

If you are in the US, ordering a male from the USDA is probably simplest. It will yield you fresh seeds that you can harvest with due care and thus get optimal germination rates.

I was given a male when I started, and now have other males from my first seed lots, but I'm inclined to destroy them all this year to leave room for my new generation of home grown and wild collected males.
 
For a while it seemed like every new aroma hop being released had 19058m in the pedigree - Bravo, Calypso, Denali, Lemon drop, Eureka, Summit etc. so I figured if I ever got serious about breeding I'd start there. However, I think there has been some recent success with using neomexicanus males and I think most of the breeding programs now use a proprietary male which are probably not available to the public.

Hopefully someone on here knows more about male hops and can provide some more publically available recommendations.
 
But, it might make your life easier if you just start with one good quality male so you know for certain who pollinated all your hops...
 
Did you stratify your seed? Hops require 6-8 weeks of cold stratification for good results.

Of course, you also need good seeds harvest from well ripened actual hop cones.

I've seen pictures from others who were also sold non-hop seeds. Big online stores like Amazon probably aren't the best place to look, focusing on actual seed specialists is a good first step. Though even then, I've had bad germination rates where I've bought. I suspect unripe seeds.

The USDA can supply seeds, but the germination rates are very variable. I've had some lots with 100% germination, but a lot more with 0%. 25-33% is rather common among the accessions I've tried.

If you are in the US, ordering a male from the USDA is probably simplest. It will yield you fresh seeds that you can harvest with due care and thus get optimal germination rates.

I was given a male when I started, and now have other males from my first seed lots, but I'm inclined to destroy them all this year to leave room for my new generation of home grown and wild collected males.
 
So I cold stratified my seeds after watching a few of you folks. on this site.
I have stratified other seeds from other plants but never hop seeds until last Winter.

I knew that they were not going to germinate based on the condition that I got them... most of them were cracked or smashed depending on how look at it and only a few whole seeds were recieved and those seeds still looked suspect. :(

The rest of the seeds I got online were not hop seeds at all. But I germinated them just the same. Just to see what species they actually were and I could not get them to germinate as well.

Everything except our hot pepper seeds germinate at anywhere from 80 to 100%

I'm not giving up on hop seeds in fact I would like to get some more promising seeds from a few folks on this Web site.

but I am more or less going to dedicate most of my time to accuring males that I can trust.

I have been so busy with the yard I am
in hopes that I can maybe get some males this fall / next season spring and i hope to be Pollinating my own gals next fall. I hope to have my own seeds from known lineage some time in 2021.
 
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But, it might make your life easier if you just start with one good quality male so you know for certain who pollinated all your hops...

I think this would be ideal for me. a few proven males and then embark on that path
 
For a while it seemed like every new aroma hop being released had 19058m in the pedigree - Bravo, Calypso, Denali, Lemon drop, Eureka, Summit etc.

Apart from Summit, those are all Hopsteiner varieties.
 
True... It might not be that 19058m is any better than other males. Maybe it's just that hopsteiner used it frequently.
 
It's the oldest male in the USDA gene bank as far as I can see, so that also plays in a role in its prolificity. "NPGS received: 25-Mar-1982"

The most recent is a wild neomex male from Colorado: "NPGS received: 10-Sep-2002"
 
I would like a few breeders who have males they feel are good starting point for breeding to put a list together or a thread. So maybe a few of us who are looking/starting our own breeding might get some decent stock to start out with.
:cool:
 
With animal breeding, I'd definitely say that it's crucial to start out with elite sperm donors and elite females.

With hops... I don't really believe in "elite males" all that much. Very few males have been "selected" or studied in order to get a general idea of what they may give, and their "known contributions" are fairly generic and unstable. It's not like an elite Holstein bull, which would be very homozygous, and where their pedigree is fully known for many generations.

Sure, a few male hops come up multiple times when looking at pedigrees, but overall, it doesn't look to me like they represent the norm. Quite a lot of cultivars are made by open pollination, which could technically be from one of these USDA males for example, but also quite a lot of cultivars are made by in-house crosses or with wild males.

It's entirely valid to say "hey, I'm aiming for a high AA and noble aroma characteristic hop, so I'll order some of the USDA male #####", but that's not at all a requirement to develop a good hop.

For example, if I look at the British hop family tree, for Endeavour, one of their latest cultivars... The males in its pedigree (going from father to grand-father, great-grand-father, etc.), are 20/86/12, 18/84/5, 23/77, 43/72/2, 25/68/173, 14/66/82, 1/63/42 (from 1966). And that's just the paternal line, looking at the father of the father of the father, etc., each cross made with a different male. If you start looking at the fathers of the females, then you have a whole lot more different males you are looking at. 1/63/42's pedigree isn't mentioned on the poster, but it was crossed to Brambling Cross in 1966, which itself was a cross of Brambling Golding with OL45 from 1927, and OL45 was itself a cross from 1919 including BB1.

When breeding cows, for example, you are typically looking for "more of the same". You see a great cow, you want more like it. When you breed hops, you don't need "more of the same", because you can simply clone it. You want "similar, but different" or "similar, but better", if not simply "entirely different". What you are looking for will influence what strategy is best suited to your ends, but the use of wild germplasm to produce interesting F1 cross cultivars is quite common.

TL;DR: Don't hesitate to just grow your own male(s) from seeds.
 
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So what I'm reading into all this is the Male hop plant is just a pollen donor and does not contribute much to the characteristics of its offspring??

So most of the desirable traits come from the female hop plant?

So genetically speaking generic males work as good if not better then a cultivated Male for breeding

I know in animals and in other plant species this is contradictory.

Intresting.

Well I have seeds now but I don't think I'm ready to germinate anything until this Winter. December would be my goal for a March to April planting in the green house.

Thank you for your advice time and help Apimyces
 
The basic genetics of it are the same, hops still follow the Mendelian model.

But one has to distinguish purebreed breeding and hybrid breeding. The first, as with the Holstein cattle example, aims to gradually weed out all deleterious alleles from the gene pool, counting on spontaneous mutations to yield novel traits, and propagating these among related breeding lines.

Hybrid breeding is different. Yes, you can start off purebred elite stock for your crosses, and that's generally a fairly good idea, but the intended goal is to benefit from heterosis. Instead of aiming to get all of the good alleles twice, you are aiming to pair different alleles that work well together, in synergy. Simulatenously, you are working to override any deleterious recessive gene previous inbreeding might have inadvertently left you with.

The thing with hops isn't that the theoretical basics are different, it's that, practically speaking, the premises aren't the same. With any livestock, you *can* use elite inbred breeders, because they exist, they are available. Starbucks is a famous bull, but you've got the same thing in other species, even non-mammals such as honey bees. In hops, these don't exist. Not because they are theoretically impossible, but because nobody ever bothered to do it. With animals and annual crops, you kind of have to make crosses at regular intervals, because your elite specimen will die of old age. Not so with perennials that are easy to clone. The best bulls of the 1800s are long, long dead. The best hops of the same years are still being grown today. And most of their offspring that are still coming out are not far off, being their daughters, or grand-daughters, but never their great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grand-daughter, because nobody bothered to make so many successive crosses. And nobody bothered to do it, because it was a lot of work, and there was no point to doing it. And the reason there's no point to doing it is that hybrid breeding schemes have worked just fine all this time.

Thus, males will definitely yield important traits. The problem though is that they are largely unknown/unknowable, because they are not purebred themselves. As such, the combinations each male can confer is huge. Especially given the same is applicable to the females, and thus, when you cross two hops together, there's a lot of variation in the end results. With large enough samples it's possible to try to deduce some things, and that was done with some of those USDA males, but it's still overall pretty generic.

The other aspect is that hop breeding is rather peculiar, in that it doesn't usually aim for specific agronomic traits, but aims for novelty, especially in the domain of aroma. Taste/aroma is practically absent from industrial breeding schemes, because it's impractical to breed for, and the consumer selects fruits based on appearance firstly, and the growers on yield firstly, so in many crops breeders just strive for something that yields quite a lot and that looks nice. But that's not the case of hops, which are an aroma crop, and which is in an industry that fuels on novelty. If you were breeding most other aroma crops, like thyme for example, then you could probably just set some parameters, such as thymol concentration and/or yield, and focus on such a quantitative trait. But that's less true with hops, where a lot of work is put just towards finding something that's "new". And in that sense, wild stock is gold, because looking for "new" in "old" is possible but less likely to give you what you are looking for.

But again, that's arbitrary. You need to adjust your breeding model according to what your own aims are. If you want a hop that's essentially a higher AA version of Tettnanger, then by all means, cross a Tettnanger with USDA 21110 Male, and perhaps then a sibling cross, and you might get exactly what you were aiming for.
 
Thanks for the very well worded explanation

There is a lot more genetic drift than in a lot of other species therefore the product that you're putting out is unknown because of all the unlimited variables. sounds like with both females and males. Based on less pure breeding and or less breeding in general to create sought after hybrids.
 
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Putting this on a few posts to get the word out.

NEW hybrids wanted
dwarf hops
New flavor and interesting smell varietals would be much appreciated!

Male rhizomes and seeds wanted as well.

It would go to a small farming hop yard in the southern (Sierra Navada )Yosemite foothills
 
I have several Neomexicanus males, first year seedlings. I hope to be able to fertilize some of my cultivars. Mandarina Bavaria, Tardif de Bourgogne, Columbus, Magnum and Chinook.

"j'ai plusieurs mâles Neomexicanus, semis de première année. j'espère réussir à féconder certains de mes cultivars. Mandarina Bavaria, Tardif de Bourgogne, Columbus, Magnum et Chinook".
 
as I have wild (male) lupulus very close to home, I will put plastic bags on my selected female flowers. in this way I guarantee as much as possible a fertilization by the Neomexicanus males I have chosen.

"comme j'ai des Lupulus sauvages (mâles) tout près de chez moi, je vais mettre des sachets plastiques sur mes fleurs femelles sélectionnés. de cette manière je garantis le plus possible une fécondation par les mâles Neomexicanus que j'ai choisi."
 
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