Hop The Strike Water

[OneInTheHand]

Anybody ever hop the strike water? I threw some fresh hops in the strike water as it was ramping up to 170. Was thinking that if I lowered the volume and brought it to boil for a bit then could add cooler water to bring it back down for the mash.

 

[day_trippr]

No.

 

[Robert65]

Why?

 

[OneInTheHand]

Advancement of Brewing Science

 

[Pkrd]

A lot of that hoppy magic will end up getting thrown out with the spent grain.

 

[bracconiere]

Advancement of Brewing Science

admitted to mensa!

 

[Yooper]

Many years ago, 'mash hopping' was fairly common. Hops were dirt cheap, and so I did it. I honestly don't think those mash hops did much at all but it was a way to use a lot of cheap hops and in my imagination I thought I might be able to tell the difference.

If you have the hops, why not?

 

[kh54s10]

Seems like you would be using a lot of hops for a nearly imperceptible flavor difference.

 

[jack13]

Kind of seems like an extension of the first wort hops idea which, as far as I've read, is meant to create a smoother, softer hop bitterness (not nec. a flavor difference per se). I've FWH'd when it's called for in a recipe, but can't say I've got the pallet to detect any difference.

Anyone else had 'success' with FWH? Maybe this would make that effect stronger?

 

[Robert65]

Kind of seems like an extension of the first wort hops idea which, as far as I've read, is meant to create a smoother, softer hop bitterness (not nec. a flavor difference per se). I've FWH'd when it's called for in a recipe, but can't say I've got the pallet to detect any difference.

Anyone else had 'success' with FWH? Maybe this would make that effect stronger?

I almost exclusively add my hops as FWH. But that is a whole different animal, and the advantage in fact is in flavor and aroma as well as bitterness. In order to get bitterness from hops, they must be boiled (or at least spend significant time above 180°F) to isomerize alpha acids. Extended time spent below this temperature in wort (as also in a whirlpool addition) can allow oils to become more permanently soluble so that the aromatic substances are not lost in the boil, which is the benefit of FWH, along with the fact that about 10% more alpha acids are recovered compared to a straight boil addition because of the time spent above 180°F on the way up.

The origin of mash hopping lies in the traditional production of Berliner Weisse and similar beers. These were made almost entirely or entirely from wheat, mashed, and the wort run straight to the fermenter without boiling. Hops were added in the mash to serve a function like rice hulls, improving permeability of the mash bed during lautering. These were, however, decoction mashes, so the hops did receive a certain amount of boiling.

So mash hopping was a strategy to address specific issues in specific beers: the need to loosen a wheat mash, and to get some minimal preservative hop extract into a wort that was not boiled. Remember though that the hop character of these beers was meant to be almost imperceptible. I've seen discussion of this before, and heard some input from a local commercial brewer who tried the technique. The consensus seems to be that mash hopping is every bit as effective as flushing the hops down the toilet before starting the brew day. But YMMV. Report if you try it.

 

[bracconiere]

(whole cone hops, could be a substitute for rice hulls, in a pinch also)

 

[Vale71]

Basically, you want to make your own pre-isomerized bittering hop extract. I can see the appeal in this as spent hops will end up being filtered by the grain bed and will not end up as trub in the boil kettle.
From an extraction point of view it will certainly work and you will actually get much higher extraction as the water PH is higher than the wort PH, which increases isomerization rate. This will IMHO more than adequately compensate any losses you will incur due to spent grain adsorption. This will also make estimating final IBU levels impossible as the usual formulas do not provide any guidance for this case, but since the values they output are worthless anyway who cares. You'll just have to do some more trial-and-error to perfect your recipes.

 

[kh54s10]

I would think that in water that is in the neighborhood of 168 degrees for mash in would not do much for isomerization. Then some of the goodness would remain in the grainbed, thus not much to gain. Or that you would have to use a lot to make up the difference.

If you boiled first maybe. But I think that being in wort as opposed to water also helps isomerization.

Edit: guess I was wrong about this.

 

[eric19312]

I tried mash hopping on the last batch I brewed. Had some willamette whole cone hops in back of freezer and no plans to use them. Added an ounce to the mash for antioxidant properties. Think I read about doing this on Scott Janish's blog or something similar.

 

[kingmatt]

I tried mash hopping on the last batch I brewed. Had some willamette whole cone hops in back of freezer and no plans to use them. Added an ounce to the mash for antioxidant properties. Think I read about doing this on Scott Janish's blog or something similar.

I heard Janish on a recent podcast saying they mash hop at Sapwood because they think it helps drop out some heavy metals that increase oxidation in the final beer. I'm not smart enough to understand why.

 

[Robert65]

Yes, I've read about a use as sort of a substitute for gallotannin like BrewTan B in the mash. The amount used is surprisingly small, something like 50g/hL IIRC, not likely to make any contribution detectable to the taste. Tannins will chelate metals like iron and copper in the water and also bind some lipids, providing upstream protection against later Fenton-type reactions and oxidation of lipids to aldehydes, both major elements of staling. I think it mainly is of interest to Reinheitsgebot-compliant brewers who eschew more effective agents like BrewTan.

 

[day_trippr]

"Heavy metals"?

 

[Robert65]

"Heavy metals"?

Yes, and some have reported that when they add gallotannin to the liquor it turns Deep Purple.

Sorry.

 

[day_trippr]

You're a bad man

 

[Schlenkerla]

Yes, and some have reported that when they add gallotannin to the liquor it turns Deep Purple.

Sorry.

I see nothing wrong with that. Especially when there's smoke on the water.

Unfortunately,

.....Some stupid with a flare gun burnt the place to the ground.....

 

[Schlenkerla]

"Heavy metals"?

Brings back memories....

 

[balrog]

OMG
Satisfyfyfyfyfy on heavy metal

Wow.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I've heard mash hopping retains only about 30% of the IBU that a 60 minute boiling addition does. How much do you guys think it would be when hopping the strike water?

(whole cone hops, could be a substitute for rice hulls, in a pinch also)

One time I used cones in the mash and it seemed like they just wanted to float. What are you doing differently?

 

[Robert65]

I see nothing wrong with that. Especially when there's smoke on the water.

Unfortunately,

.....Some stupid with a flare gun burnt the place to the ground.....

Smoke on the Water is, naturally, the name of my clone/tribute to Great Lakes Burning River pale ale.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Seriously, with hopping strike water does one get some biological acidification in the mash?

 

[Schlenkerla]

Anybody ever hop the strike water? I threw some fresh hops in the strike water as it was ramping up to 170. Was thinking that if I lowered the volume and brought it to boil for a bit then could add cooler water to bring it back down for the mash.

You got a pH meter?

OMG
Satisfyfyfyfyfy on heavy metal

Wow.

Jammin'? [emoji445][emoji445][emoji445][emoji445][emoji445]

 

[Vale71]

I've heard mash hopping retains only about 30% of the IBU that a 60 minute boiling addition does. How much do you guys think it would be when hopping the strike water?

If he boils the water with the hops in it as he said he was going to do I would guess quite a lot.
Without boiling still somewhat more than in the mash due to the higher PH.

 

[Vale71]

Seriously, with hopping strike water does one get some biological acidification in the mash?

Alpha-acids are indeed acid so I would say yes, but they're very weak so I doubt it would make a detectable difference.

 

[505-Brewer]

Solubility of hop oils in wort is generally low. Probably worse in Straight water. Waste of hops.

 

[Vale71]

Solubility of hop oils in wort is generally low. Probably worse in Straight water. Waste of hops.

Again, solubility of alpha-acids is directly proportional to medium PH. Since water PH > wort PH solubility is higher in straight water.
And we're talkin about bittering so it's hop resins we're really interested in.