Hop stand

[TheHairyHop]

As long as it's not leaky then I think you should have little issues. I just boil my chiller with the wort, makes it all easy

 

[ahurd110]

How fresh were those hops? I've only ever used less than 3 Oz in flameout. I think you might have gone overboard

It was overboard for sure. But as this was an experiment to see if you could brew an all-flameout IPA, overboard was kinda the point. The hops were all 2012 crop, a mix of southern hemisphere and northern, vacuum-sealed in mylar until brewday, so fresheness shouldn't have been an issue.

I've kegged an IPA with a more standard 2.5 oz hop stand and the results are lovely.

 

[TAK]

Pretty much can I use a copper chiller while doing a hop stand? I know most people put theirs in the last 15min of the boil and then chill, would there be sanitation issues if it sat in the wort during the hop stand before I start chilling again?

I put my copper chiller in the last 15 min of the boil, kill the flame, turn on the chill for just a minute or two to get the temp down a tad, toss in my hop charge. With the chiller in, you can't put a lid on for the hop stand, so I cover it with aluminum foil which can be loosely wrapped around the part of the chiller that sticks out.

 

[pharaohpierre]

I read the Stone article on hop stands and I've been reading this thread as well. I'm still questioning how the strong aroma stays in the beer. In my understanding, you put a lid on the boiler during your hop stand to keep the aroma in. But once you start fermenting the CO2 is knocking everything out of the beer anyway. Can someone elaborate on how to keep the aroma in the beer please.

 

[TAK]

I read the Stone article on hop stands and I've been reading this thread as well. I'm still questioning how the strong aroma stays in the beer. In my understanding, you put a lid on the boiler during your hop stand to keep the aroma in. But once you start fermenting the CO2 is knocking everything out of the beer anyway. Can someone elaborate on how to keep the aroma in the beer please.

CO2 will always scrub some aroma out during fermentation. CO2 does not knock "everything" out of the beer. Either way, Hopstands don't prevent this. They do, however, put you in a good position before fermentation to have as much as possible left over in the finished product. Also, hopstands aren't all about aroma. You get some really good flavor stability from them too. Some treat hopstands as a substitute for dry hopping. Myself, I always dry hop my IPAs in addition to the hopstand.

 

[ddicker60]

I know we shouldn't look to the big guys for everything, but hopstands/whirlpooling are manly the only flavor/aroma the big boys (with dry hopping) instead of general 30, 15 additions. To each is own, but I will say the flavor and aroma from hop stands are great IMO.

 

[pharaohpierre]

that sounds pretty good TAK, thanks for the feedback. I'll try whirlpooling next time and see for myself the type of results I get and see what the hype is all about. I'm still gonna dry hop though

 

[BassBeer]

I just brewed a pale ale today with the only hop additions at FWH, 5 min, and flameout, with a 45 minute hopstand between 180F-140F. Should be bursting with hoppy goodness.

I also plan on dry hopping a couple ounces for 7 days. IME you get a pronounced flavor and aroma increase from the hopstand, but dry hopping adds another unique layer of complexity which is definitely worth the extra work.

 

[TheHairyHop]

I just brewed a pale ale today with the only hop additions at FWH, 5 min, and flameout, with a 45 minute hopstand between 180F-140F. Should be bursting with hoppy goodness.

I also plan on dry hopping a couple ounces for 7 days. IME you get a pronounced flavor and aroma increase from the hopstand, but dry hopping adds another unique layer of complexity which is definitely worth the extra work.

I've recently become a little disenfranchised with the method. Maybe I'm not standing hot enough or using enough hops? I've just noticed that if I dry hop with 3 oz I get WAY more flavor than standing with the same amount.

 

[gometz]

I've done a few hop stands and the last one was 20 minutes at 150*F and I can tell from the unfinished beer it was not hot or long enough. I am still worried about the flavor impact of doing a hop stand at 170*F, has anyone noticed off flavors from doing them so hot?

 

[TheHairyHop]

Why would you expect off flavors

 

[gometz]

Why would you expect off flavors

I'd always heard about DMS formation at higher temperatures if you don't cool your wort down fast enough?

 

[TheHairyHop]

Never had it. If you boil for an hour and don't use grain that was malted by someone down the street, you will be fine

 

[rafaelpinto]

Strange thing, I brewed an IPA with only late hop additions and a nice hop stand. When I taste the primary sample, however, I get no aroma or flavor.

I dont remember stirring after adding hop stand hops... could that be the problem?

 

[IslandLizard]

Yeah, you got to stir, agitate to speed up extraction. They're sometimes called whirlpool hops. Aside from the hop variety, time, temperature, and agitation will have a large impact on flavor and aroma extraction, and gives you sometimes a little bittering too. Much aroma gets stripped during the fermentation. An IPA really should be dry hopped for that in your face aroma and it will give you some flavor too.

 

[rafaelpinto]

An IPA really should be dry hopped for that in your face aroma and it will give you some flavor too.

Yeah, I was asking myself: if you cannot dry hop during primary due to aroma scaping with co2, why would hopstand work?

 

[IslandLizard]

A hop stand leaves mostly flavor, and as you noticed a lot of the original aroma is reduced during fermentation. Wait for the primary to completely finish, clear the beer (cold crash with or without gelatin), dry hop for 4-7 days, then package. Drink within 4-6 weeks to get all the hop goodness at its prime. It's downhill from thereon again.

 

[wyobrewer1]

A hop stand leaves mostly flavor, and as you noticed a lot of the original aroma is reduced during fermentation. Wait for the primary to completely finish, clear the beer (cold crash with or without gelatin), dry hop for 4-7 days, then package. Drink within 4-6 weeks to get all the hop goodness at its prime. It's downhill from thereon again.

Well said. I read that another key to a good dry hop is racking to a secondary as the yeast can absorb some hop aroma.



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[IslandLizard]

Well said. I read that another key to a good dry hop is racking to a secondary as the yeast can absorb some hop aroma.

No need to rack to secondary. Cold crash your primary for 1-3 days and most suspended yeast will have dropped out. Warm back up to room temps (overnight) and dry hop. Don't shake it up.

If you want to save a cleaner yeast, use a sanitized hop bag weighted down with a few glass marbles, or rack to secondary or keg. A little agitation (think tea bag dunking) a few times a day helps to disperse the hop oils into your beer.

 

[Calichusetts]

I don't use a secondary anymore but looking back...I did have better results dry hopping in the secondary. Now, I need to use more hops to achieve the same level of hoppiness that I got in the past. No idea how to explain it, but its pretty consistent.

 

[rafaelpinto]

I don't use a secondary anymore but looking back...I did have better results dry hopping in the secondary.

Do you cold crash before adding the dry hop hops?

 

[Calichusetts]

I've done pre-dry hop cold crashes, I've done post. And this is for both methods (primary only and secondary)

Lately I haven't even been cold crashing.

 

[Beerthoven]

I've read this thread and a few others on the topic of hop-stands, as well as the two BYO articles that have been cited (the hop-stand article, and the one on Stone brewing where it is mentioned that they use a 75-90 minute, 200 degree whirlpool). I've thought about using a hop-stand to get more hop flavor into my IPAs, but a question occurs to me that nobody has raised: If more flavor is what you're after, why not just add more late hops?

Simply adding more late hops seems to have three advantages: 1) No DMS concerns; 2) No need to fudge or guess at IBU calculations; and 3) Avoids extending the brew day by 30 minutes or more. The only cost is a few more bucks for some extra hops.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for process improvements that result in better beer or get me closer to replicating a craft brew that I love. But an easier answer to the question of "How do I get more hop flavor?" seems to me to be, "Add more hops".

Am I missing something here?

 

[AnOldUR]

Am I missing something here?

Some hop oils are more volatile than others and don't survive temperatures above 170 degrees (more or less), but do last through fermentation. There are some aroma and flavor compounds that can't be had with boil hops or dry hops. That's the theory anyway.

 

[ncbrewer]

Some hop oils are more volatile than others and don't survive temperatures above 170 degrees (more or less), but do last through fermentation. There are some aroma and flavor compounds that can't be had with boil hops or dry hops. That's the theory anyway.

I really like the results from a hop stand - Your explanation is probably the reason. No DMS so far, and the bitterness seems pretty close to what I expected. It's worth it to me - YMMV.

 

[FreshSafari]

Just finished reading through the whole thread and man do I have a different approach that I wanna take for the next few batches.
Since all I wanna brew is anything from a APA -- IPA & anything perfectly HOP'd, this was 100% sub material.

Can anyone recommend any other threads like this.

 

[wyobrewer1]

So I brewed an IPA with a hop stand that included 3 ounces at flameout that I just kept the temp at about 180 and stirred every few minutes for about 30 minutes total. Three months after brewing it still smells like a fresh IPA. This is a great technique.

 

[ncbrewer]

So I brewed an IPA with a hop stand that included 3 ounces at flameout that I just kept the temp at about 180 and stirred every few minutes for about 30 minutes total. Three months after brewing it still smells like a fresh IPA. This is a great technique.

That's something that I don't remember hearing before. It's a real advantage if it keeps a good fresh hop flavor and aroma for several months.

 

[Brettomomyces]

I just read through most of this thread this morning, found a lot of the DMS discussion really interesting, especially considering the beer I just made.

24# pale malt
1# c20
1# c40
1# flaked barley
2# cane sugar

90 min mash at 148-149, no mash out. Efficiency near 80% with a 75 min sparge.

2oz Buzz Bullets FWH (8.5%)
1oz Bravo (14.1%) 60
2oz BB 20
2oz BB 10
2oz BB 5
4oz BB Hopstand
4oz BB Dry hop (10 days)

OG was 1.080 and calculated IBU assuming 10% efficiency on the hopstand addition is about 105. I copied the base recipe from Ruination and decided to use the whole pound of buzz bullets I just bought. Pitched big S-05 slurry and ended up oxygenating twice, once at filling the fermenters and once again the next day.

My boil was about 110 minutes, collected 14g boiled down to 11.5.

For my hop stand...I recirculated using a pump and a whirlpool setup for, wait for it, 2 hours, held at 170F with my electric setup. I waited until 195 to add the hopstand addition and then just let the beer cool as it recirc'd to 170. Covered the pot, as my last two hop stands I did not and the idea struck me finally that I was losing a lot of volatiles. I have a good false bottom and just let the hops free float in there, was able to recirculate at a pretty good rate due to that. Beer came to 1.080 roughly and is fermenting away now. I'll report back here with results. If DMS is a potential issue with covered, extended hop stands, it's going to show up in this. Hopefully not, but it's for like science, right?

 

[Calichusetts]

My boil was about 110 minutes, collected 14g boiled down to 11.5.

If DMS is a potential issue with covered, extended hop stands, it's going to show up in this. Hopefully not, but it's for like science, right?

Not really...the precursor of DMS is halved every 40 minutes of a boil...so you have removed more than 75% of the SMM. You really shouldn't see it.