Thx! So it looks like DMS isn't really a concern unless you're using a lot of Pilsner Malt, in which case you'd increase the boil time. Looking forward to brewing my next batch with this new info.
:rockin:
Hop Stand/Whirlpool - Getting great hop aroma/flavor
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Thx! So it looks like DMS isn't really a concern unless you're using a lot of Pilsner Malt, in which case you'd increase the boil time. Looking forward to brewing my next batch with this new info.
:rockin:
So after reading this thread and doing some more investigating I've formulated the recipe for my next batch, a Mosaic Citra IPA. Let me know if anything looks off or could be improved upon. Am I benefiting from a 140F hopstand or should I double up the 180F? Too much hops for 4 Gallons?
Mosaic Citra IPA
4 Gallons
8 Lbs (67%) American 2-Row
2 Lbs (17%) Wheat Malt
1 Lbs (8%) Carapils(body)
1 Lb (8%) Flaked Oats (mouthfeel)
1 oz Warrior 16% @ 30 min - BOIL
2.00 oz Mosaic @ 180F - HOP STAND for 30 mins
2.00 oz Citra @ 180F - HOP STAND for 30 mins
1.00 oz Mosaic @ 140F - HOP STAND for 30 mins
1.00 oz Citra @ 140F - HOP STAND for 30 mins
1.00 oz Mosaic - 1st DRY HOP 3 Days
1.00 oz Citra - 1st DRY HOP 3 Days
1.00 oz Mosaic - 2nd DRY HOP 3 Days
1.00 oz Citra - 2nd DRY HOP 3 Days
London Ale III 1318 @ 66F
OG 1.071
FG 1.021
IBU 65.10
SRM 4.80
ABV 6.60%
Mosaic Citra IPA
4 Gallons
8 Lbs (67%) American 2-Row
2 Lbs (17%) Wheat Malt
1 Lbs (8%) Carapils(body)
1 Lb (8%) Flaked Oats (mouthfeel)
1 oz Warrior 16% @ 30 min - BOIL
2.00 oz Mosaic @ 180F - HOP STAND for 30 mins
2.00 oz Citra @ 180F - HOP STAND for 30 mins
1.00 oz Mosaic @ 140F - HOP STAND for 30 mins
1.00 oz Citra @ 140F - HOP STAND for 30 mins
1.00 oz Mosaic - 1st DRY HOP 3 Days
1.00 oz Citra - 1st DRY HOP 3 Days
1.00 oz Mosaic - 2nd DRY HOP 3 Days
1.00 oz Citra - 2nd DRY HOP 3 Days
London Ale III 1318 @ 66F
OG 1.071
FG 1.021
IBU 65.10
SRM 4.80
ABV 6.60%
Thanks atom. I was hoping the FG would be lower anyway as I want it to be dry with very little sweetness.
I would do the hopstand at 180F. 140F seems too low to me, basically like a warm dry hop. I personally like to do a flameout and 180F addition. I think if you onyl did 140F, you would barely be pulling out the flavors you want.
And that is certainly not too much hops for 4 gallons
And that is certainly not too much hops for 4 gallons
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I think you will find diminishing returns.
You could probably get similar taste/aroma with at least 25% fewer hops.
I suspect that 4 ounces of hop stand and 2 ounces of dry hop would give similar results.
You could probably get similar taste/aroma with at least 25% fewer hops.
I suspect that 4 ounces of hop stand and 2 ounces of dry hop would give similar results.
Sure you can pull out the same amount of taste by manipulating boil additions. But the idea with a hopstand is you are able to get flavor without bitterness. Yes it takes mroe hops to achieve the same vibrant flavor. But that flavor does not come entailed with bracing bitterness. So you can basically go as high as you want and dont end up with something like Stone RuinTen (which I enjoyed BTW but I would much rather drink one of my huge hopstanded IPAs over anything they make)
Thanks all for the input.
Maybe I'll revise the hop additions like this:
1 oz Warrior 16% @ 30 min - BOIL
1.00 oz Mosaic @ FLAMEOUT
1.00 oz Citra @ FLAMEOUT
1.00 oz Mosaic @ 180F - HOP STAND for 30 mins
1.00 oz Citra @ 180F - HOP STAND for 30 mins
1.00 oz Mosaic - DRY HOP 3 Days
1.00 oz Citra - DRY HOP 3 Days
If the aroma isn't quite where I want it to be, I can throw another oz or two to
dry hop in the keg. Is 30 minutes an optimal Hop Stand duration?
Maybe I'll revise the hop additions like this:
1 oz Warrior 16% @ 30 min - BOIL
1.00 oz Mosaic @ FLAMEOUT
1.00 oz Citra @ FLAMEOUT
1.00 oz Mosaic @ 180F - HOP STAND for 30 mins
1.00 oz Citra @ 180F - HOP STAND for 30 mins
1.00 oz Mosaic - DRY HOP 3 Days
1.00 oz Citra - DRY HOP 3 Days
If the aroma isn't quite where I want it to be, I can throw another oz or two to
dry hop in the keg. Is 30 minutes an optimal Hop Stand duration?
30min is probably adequate. I do an hour for mine, but im also relying on the hopstand for 90% of my hop character.
Personally, I'd take those hop additions back to where they were. It makes me sad to see them taken out...If you need convincing check out this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=554902
Personally, I'd take those hop additions back to where they were. It makes me sad to see them taken out...If you need convincing check out this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=554902
If you're going to have a bittering charge then just do a WP and not add anymore hops to the boil then I'd just throw them all in at once rather than spread it out.
m00ps is right that at 140* you won't get much from the hops in 30 mins. Anything under 170* will pull the hop oils out but not isomerize them, so it won't add any bitterness. Then the cooler it gets the less the hop oils get pulled out and the longer you have to hop stand, which is fine if you don't mind letting the wort sit for a long time. Kinda like I did with a WP starting at 170* and letting it naturally cool for one hour.
If you do throw hops in at flameout you will still get some bitterness. Just figure that in. A lot of people assume it as a 10 minute boil addition.
I like this original hop amount compared to your new one. I don't think you'd be disappointed! Just throw them all in together at 170*!
Thanks for all the feedback gentlemen (and ladies?)
I'll stew on this for a bit, I'll probably go back to the original hop amount. Really excited to put this new info to work and brew it.
A lot of new things happening for this batch: First time using a refractometer, adjusting water profile (thanks Ward Labs), using a ph meter to check mash ph, hop schedule, & fermenting in corny kegs. Psyched!
I'll stew on this for a bit, I'll probably go back to the original hop amount. Really excited to put this new info to work and brew it.
A lot of new things happening for this batch: First time using a refractometer, adjusting water profile (thanks Ward Labs), using a ph meter to check mash ph, hop schedule, & fermenting in corny kegs. Psyched!
hopsandhops
Well-Known Member
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Looking at your grist too, you may want to think of dropping the Carapils a little. It is a low lovibond and shouldn't impart too much sweetness but 8% could still be a little high. I think 5% or less would be good.
MadHomebrewer
Well-Known Member
Pretty much this is what I did. On my Citra IPA, I did an 1oz Magnum for 60 minute boil. Then 2oz Citra at flameout. Then cooled to 170 and added 4oz of Citra whirlpooled for 1 hour. 3oz Citra dry hop 7 days. Came out great. Had a friend from work comment it reminded him of beers from where he grew up. I asked where he grew up and he said Vermont. He asked if I had heard of The Alchemist. Best complement I have ever received, lol!
slym2none
"Lazy extract brewer."
I whirlpool hopped a dark ale, 2.5 gallon batch using 1-1/2 ounces of hops, used the remaining half ounce of those plus another 1/4 oz of CTZ in the dry-hop, and really got amazing flavour & aroma out of them.
IOW, I agree with ArcLight, 4 ounces in your whirlpool & 2 in the dry-hop will give you plenty of in-yo-FACE hops character!
IOW, I agree with ArcLight, 4 ounces in your whirlpool & 2 in the dry-hop will give you plenty of in-yo-FACE hops character!
lowtones84
Well-Known Member
So I didn't account for my groundwater being much colder at this time of the year than last time I brewed, and I chilled down to 110F without noticing (boiling down to 110 in under 10 minutes...). I already had a blend of hops measured out and in one container for the hopstand, so I didn't want to put them back into a bag, and decided to go for it anyhow. Decided on 45 minutes because of the lower temp. Anybody have experience doing a hopstand at that low of a temp?
hanuswalrus
Well-Known Member
I can't say that I have experience w/ hopstands at this low of a temp, but I would think that you aren't going to get much flavor from this addition, probably just aroma.
Tasted a bottle of my 8 oz whirlpool in a 2.5 gallon batch and got a very juicy character from the beer. Was trying to figure out what exactly it was but wasn't sure of the flavor I was getting.
I thought it kind of had a sweet juiciness to it. Like the hops flavor added some sweetness. FG was 1.009 so I know it wasn't from the malt. Honestly, I'm a little disappointed but it could be because of me being impatient and trying one only after 10 days and chilling for only one day.
I was hoping for a little more dankness in the flavor and aroma, although I know I didn't dry hop and that could have provided some dank aroma.
Hops used were 4oz Galaxy, 2oz Equinox, 1oz Citra and 1oz Nelson.
I thought it kind of had a sweet juiciness to it. Like the hops flavor added some sweetness. FG was 1.009 so I know it wasn't from the malt. Honestly, I'm a little disappointed but it could be because of me being impatient and trying one only after 10 days and chilling for only one day.
I was hoping for a little more dankness in the flavor and aroma, although I know I didn't dry hop and that could have provided some dank aroma.
Hops used were 4oz Galaxy, 2oz Equinox, 1oz Citra and 1oz Nelson.
MadHomebrewer
Well-Known Member
Funny I had a similar situation. I tried a bottle of mine after a week and it was sweet. Got me worried but I waited another week and a half and it was money. It really had me worried too. Had a couple homebrew club members that are BJCP qualified taste. One said give it another 6 weeks and it will be at its prime.
I can believe it being good in maybe another week or two but waiting six weeks for a bottled IPA, I'd be worried about the flavor not being there anymore!
We'll see what happens.
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Just popped the cap on a couple of beers I brewed a couple months ago, using 9 oz. El Dorado for a 40 min. WP at 175-180*.
OMFG!!!!! The aroma is incredible! My buddy could small my glass from across the table. Flavor is amazing, and the bitterness actually pretty tame.
My buddy said he actually preferred my beer over 'Psuedo Sue"...which is a mighty nice craft beer here in Iowa, that uses citra hops. I am guessing it is close to 3 Floyds Zombie Dust.
OMFG!!!!! The aroma is incredible! My buddy could small my glass from across the table. Flavor is amazing, and the bitterness actually pretty tame.
My buddy said he actually preferred my beer over 'Psuedo Sue"...which is a mighty nice craft beer here in Iowa, that uses citra hops. I am guessing it is close to 3 Floyds Zombie Dust.
One day, homebrewers will finally come around to the power of a big fat hopstand...until then, we can just enjoy the insane hop character and freshness we are able to achieve
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Yep, your spot on. I have done WP at 145*. Beer had no aroma, mild flavor and almost no bitterness...say around 12-15 IBU is my guess(used 3 oz. various varieties).
MadHomebrewer
Well-Known Member
Funny thing, I was finally able to get some zombie dust down here in FL. I was a little let down too after having my own Citra IPA that came out fantastic. I was pretty happy by what I was able to pull off.
well if you are using a large hopstand addition, I wouldnt even say its a fair comparison. Your IPA is likely much fresher than zombie dust and you probably had more oz/gal of hops than a "hoppy pale ale."
Ive had <30day old zombie dust. Its definitely a great beer. But it cant touch the hop character you can potentially achieve homebrewing level, as long as you know what you're doing. Like, I still really want to try heady topper at some point but, even if its fresh... Im guessing its going to be a letdown
I'm up in Maine and I brew in my (uninsulated) garage... This time of year it takes less than 2 hours to get down to 170 from boil... You think a flameout addition would add too much bitterness because of the time between 180-212? I'm just wondering because I don't use a chiller, I just let the wort cool naturally and it would be nice to not have to monitor and wait for it to hit 180.
It's not so much laziness as it is forgetfulness... honest!
It's not so much laziness as it is forgetfulness... honest!
I'm up in Maine and I brew in my (uninsulated) garage... This time of year it takes less than 2 hours to get down to 170 from boil... You think a flameout addition would add too much bitterness because of the time between 180-212? I'm just wondering because I don't use a chiller, I just let the wort cool naturally and it would be nice to not have to monitor and wait for it to hit 180.
It's not so much laziness as it is forgetfulness... honest!
I would assume that you might loose too much aroma and flavor with it staying that high for that long and it would add more bitterness, yes. I would recommend paying a little closer attention and adding it at the proper temp. Maybe someone else can confirm or back me up with that assumption.
What is your batch size to have it take more than two hours to cool in Maine!?
I'm up in Maine and I brew in my (uninsulated) garage... This time of year it takes less than 2 hours to get down to 170 from boil... You think a flameout addition would add too much bitterness because of the time between 180-212? I'm just wondering because I don't use a chiller, I just let the wort cool naturally and it would be nice to not have to monitor and wait for it to hit 180.
It's not so much laziness as it is forgetfulness... honest!
I did my last ipa with a 2 hours hop stand and went out to dinner. Was at 140 when I got back and its still not bitter with close to 2lbs of hops.. Seriously you can't overdo it
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