hop burst- vs hopstand/whirlpool. what's the consensus?

[SanPancho]

so most hopburst practicioners seem to indicate that you crash hard and fast after flameout to lock in flavor/aroma.

but there's quite a bit of info out there saying that long hopstand/whirlpools can also build a ton of hop flavor and aroma.

what's the consensus for max flavor and aroma? better to hopburst or whirlpool/hopstand?

alot of my beers benefit from citrus, tropical fruit, floral notes, not really so much in the bitterness dept. i dry hop alot for aroma, but would love to maximize flavor too. and so the idea behind hopburst/hopstand/whirlpool should be perfect for the beers, i just cant figure out which one would be best as they somewhat seem to contradict each other- at least in terms of how crucial it is crash quickly after flameout.

what's the story folks? is there a consensus favorite here?

 

[AK7007]

I generally no-chill IPAs and DIPAs, and if it isn't in the FWH, it's in the cube for the long haul. I'm happy with the hop aroma/flavor this way.

 

[Calder]

I'm interested in replies you get.

I cool to about 175, add flame out hops and let sit for as lobg as I can, at least 30 minutes. Then cool quickly.

I don't know if this is the best method, but I get a lot of flavor from it.

 

[agrazela]

I'm interested in replies you get.

I cool to about 175, add flame out hops and let sit for as lobg as I can, at least 30 minutes. Then cool quickly.

I don't know if this is the best method, but I get a lot of flavor from it.

This is exactly what I do, also. Gives great flavor. But I am still chasing the aroma dragon.

 

[SanPancho]

I've done whirlpool a few times also, add hops at 205 and whirlpool down to 175-180, total time 30-45 min. Seems like I got good flavor, but I still wonder if the hop burst and crash cool is better.

I guess I can split my next batch in two and try each method, but that's a long brew day. Was hoping someone would have experience and opinion.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

I think the best bet is trying out both methods and sticking with the one that you like. Due to my system limitations I just whirlpool hot and then chill inline to the fermenter. Non-hoppy beers get 20 minute whirlpool and hoppy get up to 45 minute whirlpool. Starts around 205 and ends up around 170-180 depending on the ambient.

I like the results. But you might like the other method better. Up to you in the end.

Good Luck.

 

[m00ps]

Ive gravitated much more towards hopstands though I guess all my IPA are also hopbursted since I only do a small 60min addition and nothing else until 10min before flameout. I use at least 8oz in the hopstand for 1 hr. Half going in at flameout the other half (which I choose selectively based on perceived aroma and flavor) go in halfway through. I've found its impossible to overdue hops in the hopstand. Ive never gotten any jaw clenching bitterness from it no matter how much I add. Id think it would be much easier to go too far with hopbursting since the boiling extracts so much more bitter compounds. Like adding 8oz at 10min would probably make for a pretty bitter IPA

 

[ricshayne]

I use both techniques and a double dry hop as well. I generally shoot for 1/3 of my total IBUs from a FWH and then get the rest from bursting in the last 10 minutes. I don't calculate the IBUs from the whirlpool because i generally do that at <170 so I'm getting more aroma and flavor contribution.

 

[Weezy]

I seem to say this every six months when this comes up:

Some flavors are only created by actively cooking the hops. Monster whirlpool additions add tons of flavor, but ignoring mid and late boil additions can sacrifice some different flavor.

 

[hanuswalrus]

I use both techniques and a double dry hop as well. I generally shoot for 1/3 of my total IBUs from a FWH and then get the rest from bursting in the last 10 minutes. I don't calculate the IBUs from the whirlpool because i generally do that at <170 so I'm getting more aroma and flavor contribution.

I did pretty much exactly this on my last beer (brewed almost 2 weeks ago) and it's the best smelling IPA I've done so far, we'll see how it tastes in another week or so. I've experimented with both bursting and stands/whirlpools. Both give good results but I think a nice mix of both bursting and a hopstand PLUS a good dry hop might be the best way to maximize hop aroma/flavor. That and using good, fresh hops.. not to mention a healthy fermentation

 

[RmikeVT]

FWIW - I do 12g batches and split into 2 fermentors. My goal one brew day was to create an English Pale Ale/ESB and a Hoppy American Pale from the same wort. I used Maris Otter, c60 and FWH with Magnum, Tossed in some EKG around 10 mins and a little more at flameout then chilled wort to about 180 and ran 6 gallons off through my CFC into a fermenter and pitched wyeast 1468 - West Yorkshire.

After this was complete my wort left in the kettle was around 170, I tossed in 2oz of Amarillo, 1 oz of Simcoe and 1 oz of Columbus and let it stand for 30 mins, after that it was down another 10-15 degrees and I ran off into the second fermentor and pitched S-05.

I think I dry hopped the second one too. Needless to say the second one had a ton of hop flavor and aroma and tasted like a Hoppy American Pale. I was very impressed with the Hop Stand in the high 170 range.

If you think about it, if you do double batches like me, you can really create two completely different beers using different yeast and a hop stand after you run off half the wort.

 

[tgmartin000]

I'm constantly experimenting. I'll typically do 10/5/0, with the 0 min addition about 50% of my hop bill, if not more. 30 minute whirlpool, I've found diminishing returns after 30.

Personally, I prefer 0 min additions to cooling to 180, then steeping, but I have yet to do a controlled experiment. Dry hop. Then keg hop.

I also just did my first beer with a small 60 minute, then nothing until 5 oz at 0 min. I'd accuse my ipa's of having a muddled hop flavor, so I'm wondering if this will clean that up.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

I'm constantly experimenting. I'll typically do 10/5/0, with the 0 min addition about 50% of my hop bill, if not more. 30 minute whirlpool, I've found diminishing returns after 30.

Personally, I prefer 0 min additions to cooling to 180, then steeping, but I have yet to do a controlled experiment. Dry hop. Then keg hop.

I also just did my first beer with a small 60 minute, then nothing until 5 oz at 0 min. I'd accuse my ipa's of having a muddled hop flavor, so I'm wondering if this will clean that up.

I've found good water chemistry to help the "muddy" taste you can get with excessive hopping.

I messed around one time and took all my late addition hops, added 50% and then put it all in the mash. I bittered and dry hopped as usual for that IPA.

 

[olotti]

I've done both lately and switched my hopping to 60, 10, 5 and then pull the spider and let cool to 175 then add a 3-4oz hopstand for however long it takes to get to 155, the pot is covered with foil also. Last beer I split the hopstand into a 1.5oz flameout starting at 195 let that cool to 175 then added the other 1.5oz until temp hit 155 about an hour total steeping time we'll see how that turns out as its bubbling away right now, it's an all Galaxy Belgian IPA with wlp500. I also always do at least a 3oz dryhop for all my beers even with hop stands, I just love huge aroma like when you pop the cap and you can smell the beer from feet away, this is for 5.5 gal batches btw and I bottle 5 gal if not a touch more after cold crashing.

 

[troglodytes]

I've always gotten the best flavor/aroma results from my "whirlpool" technique. In fact, recently I've substituted most of my dry hops to FO hops and yielded much better results in IPAs.

I pitch the hops after flameout at about 200-205F then stir to create a whirlpool, cover and repeat as necessary. After 30-40 minutes of this I have done about 5-6 stirring sessions and the temp is about 170F. I then crash cool to pitching temp i about 5-8 minutes with an immersion chiller. My last IPA had unreal citrus and stone fruit hoppy flavors and aroma with 4 oz of Citra whirlpooled and only 1 oz dry hop. This beer was far better than past version I had done with 1 oz at FO and 4 oz dry hop.

 

[stevedasleeve]

I've changed my mind over the last few years - I like a base generic bittering with a 60 min addition, one 15-20 minute addition, and a big flame out addition. In my session American special bitter I do 0.35 Apollo @ 60, 0.75 Northern Brewer @ 15, and mixed Simcoe and Amarillo - 3 oz - at flame out after I start my immersion chiller.

Since I don't go through beer as fast as I used to the 60 minute bittering is important as the beer ages.

Also I dry hop 3 oz in primary and put in a hefty dose of whole hops in the keg.

It's similar for bigger beers (this one is 1.046) but more hops of course.