Honey ESB - feedback!

[fragglerock]

The following is a recipe for an ESB that I'm brewing up for my brother-in-law as a gift. Normally I wouldn't add honey but he requested it, any feedback and critiques would be appreciated!

Honey ESB
All grain
Volume: 5g
OG: 1.059
FG: 1.018
IBU: 42
Color: 9.9 SRM

Maris Otter: 8.06 lbs.
Caramel/ Crystal 40L: 1 lb.
Cara-Pils: .65 lb.
Flaked Barley: .49 lb.
Aromatic Malt: .48 lb.
Honey: .25 lbs. (added after boil)

60 min: EKG, 1.25 oz.
15 min: Challenger, 1.25 oz.
WLP002 English Ale yeast

Planning on mashing at 152 for 75 minutes, mash out and sparge. Brewing with a Grainfather and planning on a 72% efficiency. Let me know what y'all think!

 

[TasunkaWitko]

I like the idea; be sure to let us know how it goes.

I've been brewing a beer that is half Maris Otter, half Wheat; it's been very good, and has an almost honey-nut quality to it. A little wheat might be worth considering, perhaps?

 

[fragglerock]

Solid thought. Possibly add the wheat in lieu of the honey, or split the honey addition in half and use the wheat as well?

 

[TasunkaWitko]

This is a suggestion only, but if your B-I-L wants honey, I'd say give him honey; keep the family happy, and all that.

Considering the amount of honey (1/4 pound), I'd say it would be "safe" to simply add an amount of wheat to the gain bill - maybe 1 pound? Another option might be to replace the carapils with a pound of wheat, since I "think" that the wheat would achieve the same goals.

 

[carloslavin]

I'd say at 4oz the only thing honey will be good for is so he can say it has honey in it. Most of it will ferment out and whatever flavor remains should be easily shadowed by the other malts (aromatic is pretty strong IMO)

Maybe adding a little honey malt (which reportedly tastes more like honey than actual honey added to fermentation)?

 

[fragglerock]

I like the idea with the honey wheat. I've never used it before but every time I smell it at my LHBS it has a great aroma to it and it should make for a much richer color. Made the following changes:

OG: 1.059
FG: 1.019

Maris Otter: 8.06 lbs.
Caramel/ Crystal 40L: 1 lb.
Honey Wheat: 1 lb.
Flaked Barley: .49 lb.
Aromatic Malt: .48 lb.

Everything else I kept the same, the addition of the honey wheat didn't throw off my BU:GU by much. Any changes need to be made to the mash in regards to the honey wheat?

 

[carloslavin]

I like the idea with the honey wheat. I've never used it before but every time I smell it at my LHBS it has a great aroma to it and it should make for a much richer color. Made the following changes:

OG: 1.059
FG: 1.019

Maris Otter: 8.06 lbs.
Caramel/ Crystal 40L: 1 lb.
Honey Wheat: 1 lb.
Flaked Barley: .49 lb.
Aromatic Malt: .48 lb.

Everything else I kept the same, the addition of the honey wheat didn't throw off my BU:GU by much. Any changes need to be made to the mash in regards to the honey wheat?

Don't think you need to change anything in your mash. Just treat it like any other malt.

Also, I'm no expert on honey malt so please take this with a grain of salt, but from what I've read it should be treated more as a caramel malt.

Looking at your recipe you have 2lbs of crystal (with the c40). I know ESBs can be very malty, but not sure if all this sweetness would be able to be balanced out by the hops. Hopefully someone with more experience can chime in, or some additional reading regarding that malt can point you in the right direction ipe:

Now, with that disclaimer out of the way. If I was doing your ESB, given the 1# of honey malt, I'd probably just cut the C40 in half, and add some base malt to get the OG back where it is.

I do know this dude posted an ESB with honey malt and some caramel malts. Between the c20 and c65 he has 1#, with only 6oz of the honey malt. He doesn't mention anything of it being too sweet, just nice and malty. Maybe swapping the amount of caramels he uses for the honey malt would make it more honey-ish while still drinkable and balanced.

Do let us know where you land on the recipe

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Another thing - you can also use honey as the priming sugar when bottling. I doubt that it makes a HUGE difference in the flavor, but some folks have said they get a little out of it, whether using clover, orange blossom, or other honey.

Might be worth a try.

 

[fragglerock]

Thanks for all the kickass suggestions y'all. I think the following is what I'm going to go with.

OG: 1.059
FG: 1.019
SRM: 9.1
IBU: 44
ABV: 5.2%

Maris Otter: 8.75 lbs.
Caramel/ Crystal 40L: .5 lbs.
Honey Malt: .4 lbs.
Flaked Barley: .49 lbs.
Aromatic Malt: .48 lbs.
Cara-Pils/ Dextrin: .45 lbs.
60 min: EKG, 1.32 oz.
15 min: Challenger, 1.31 oz.



Per Carlos's suggestion, I'm dropping down the C40 and Honey malt amounts, it seems that 1 lb. of honey malt is way too sweet. I added some of that back to the MO and threw back in the Cara-Pils to add give it a solid head. I upped the hop amounts by just a bit to try and balance out the increase in sweetness from the Honey malt, kept the yeast the same. I'll get to brewing this sometime next week and will let y'all know how things go!

Cheers

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Looks great - keep us in the loop, and post a photo (or 3, or 4, or 10) if possible!

 

[Queequeg]

IMO you don't need the aromatic or the carapils.

Just honey malt, C40 and flaked barely are enough.

 

[fragglerock]

This is only the second recipe I've ever done myself from scratch, sorry if it's obvious but why is that?

 

[Queequeg]

Carapils is for head retention and mouthfeel. Flaked barely does exactly the same thing only it's better at it. Carapils is normally used for beers were there are virtually no other adjuncts and clarity of the final beer is important.

Aromatic is not a flavour I associate with ESB. ESB typically gets it's flavour from yeast and caramel Malts. That's kinda the signature of the brew.

Also keeping it simple will help the honey flavour pop more and less likely it will get lost in the mix.

Couple other things to consider is possibly using torrified wheat instead of flaked barley. It is more traditional in a esb and gives a slightly toasty character that will blend well with the honey.

I would also consider adding a small quantity of darker crystal or roast grains(very small maybe 2oz) to add some floor. Though this is entirely option.

Also have think about what yeasts compliment honey? You certainly want an English strain but a diaceytl producing strain would probably work really well with the honey notes.

 

[fragglerock]

Sorry for the late response guys, took some time off from brewing to get a temp controller for my chest freezer built! Brewed this about 6 days ago, hit my efficiency and am currently ramping up the temperature to the higher end for full attenuation! Will bottle in about two weeks and let y’all know how it turns out!