Homemade PBW Recipe

[IslandLizard]

Should using pure sodium percarbonate vs. oxiclean yield better results or should one expect about the same?

Oxiclean, or one of the cheaper generics, is fine.
Even common washing soda (sodium carbonate) is fine.
The whole oxygen action is heavily overrated, IMO. It looks great on TV, that's about it.

Once the oxygen dissipates (from one to a few hours, depending on temp) washing soda is left over. "Oxiclean," depending on brand/source is already a mixture of sodium percarbonate and sodium carbonate (washing soda).

No need to add 100% percarbonate, unless you can source it as a great deal.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Should using pure sodium percarbonate vs. oxiclean yield better results or should one expect about the same?

I use 100% sodium percarbonate and buy it in bulk, along with the sodium metasilicate. I use Finish Jet Dry as the source of the surfactant, gelling agent, and chelation agent.

The percarbonate is highly underrated in my opinion since it very aggressively reacts with organic matter to break it down and the hydrogen peroxide it releases is also a strong antimicrobial. In a clear carboy you can see it dissolving the kräusen ring in a matter of seconds-minutes.

 

[balrog]

I use 100% sodium percarbonate and buy it in bulk, along with the sodium metasilicate. I use Finish Jet Dry as the source of the surfactant, gelling agent, and chelation agent.

The percarbonate is highly underrated in my opinion since it very aggressively reacts with organic matter to break it down and the hydrogen peroxide it releases is also a strong antimicrobial. In a clear carboy you can see it dissolving the kräusen ring in a matter of seconds-minutes.

I have to agree about the percatbonate. I had two kegs, kicked about same time w similar brown ale/Altbier. Left “a bit” before cleaning. Out the homemade PBW in one w some water, shook once every couple minutes, clean in 20 which I read is about the time the oxygen lasts in the percarbonate. I xfr to other keg, same shake same time, did not get it done. Added another scoop and it was done in 10 minutes. I firmly believe in the bubbles. Scrubbing or otherwise.

 

[32indian]

What would be the difference between "Red Devil TSP/90 phosphate free", and old fashion "Tri-sodium phosphate" (with phosphate) as it relates to this post?

 

[RPh_Guy]

TSP/90 is sodium metasilicate, which is what's in PBW. Either product works fine though.

 

[h22lude]

Thanks again. I picked up some Jet Dry and I'll report back when I see how it does. The ingredients look a lot better than the 7th Gen.

Ingredients:
http://www.rbnainfo.com/product.php?productLineId=654

Cleaning sucks.

Did you ever test PBW vs home made?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Did you ever test PBW vs home made?

No. I'm not sure what a good test would be since this quickly removes all visible organic matter.
Chemically it has all the same components as PBW without anything conflicting (unlike the original recipe in this thread), so I expect the performance is similar.

Like professional breweries, I follow it with an acid rinse to remove inorganic residue. (Water rinse before and after each step.)

 

[h22lude]

No. I'm not sure what a good test would be since this quickly removes all visible organic matter.
Chemically it has all the same components as PBW without anything conflicting (unlike the original recipe in this thread), so I expect the performance is similar.

Like professional breweries, I follow it with an acid rinse to remove inorganic residue. (Water rinse before and after each step.)

What are you using for home made now? I've tried to follow the thread but there are so many ingredients being said, my head is spinning. I did follow the original one but that bucket is running out. Wondering whether I should make more DIY version or just buy PBW. If you like what you are making, I may try that.

I just bought Milk Stone remover and will start doing an acid rinse as well.

 

[RPh_Guy]

What are you using for home made now? I've tried to follow the thread but there are so many ingredients being said, my head is spinning. I did follow the original one but that bucket is running out. Wondering whether I should make more DIY version or just buy PBW. If you like what you are making, I may try that.

I just bought Milk Stone remover and will start doing an acid rinse as well.

3-4 parts Sodium percarbonate
1 part Sodium metasilicate
1 squirt Jet Dry liquid

I buy in bulk from Amazon and mix them when needed. Jet Dry is readily available at local stores too.
It's a LOT less expensive than PBW.

There are rare instances when something will need a quick scrub with a normal sponge.

I also use BKF as needed to return stainless to it's original luster, and citric acid as needed for passivation.
In the off chance you're using any aluminum, remember that you don't want to strip the dull oxide layer.

I've tried using more simple mixtures but they are noticably less effective. YMMV.

 

[h22lude]

3-4 parts Sodium percarbonate
1 part Sodium metasilicate
1 squirt Jet Dry liquid

I buy in bulk from Amazon and mix them when needed. Jet Dry is readily available at local stores too.
It's a LOT less expensive than PBW.

There are rare instances when something will need a quick scrub with a normal sponge.

I also use BKF as needed to return stainless to it's original luster, and citric acid as needed for passivation.
In the off chance you're using any aluminum, remember that you don't want to strip the dull oxide layer.

I've tried using more simple mixtures but they are noticably less effective. YMMV.

Would you mind linking the Amazon pages for those two? I found one for percarbonate but not sure if they are reputable (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074D9F3V...olid=1F7CTSE21E1R0&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it). I also found one for metasilicate but it seems expensive. TSP/90 is about $15 for 4 pounds. This stuff was $11 for 1 pound.

Do you know how much you use per gallon of water? Or per kettle full of water? With the DIY stuff I use now, I just dump it in with no real rhyme or reason...which is probably a little wasteful.

Thanks for the help

 

[RPh_Guy]

The seller from whom I got mine is now gone, but these are similar:

Percarbonate $48.90 / 25lbs
https://www.amazon.com/Sodium-Percarbonate-UNCOATED-Min-Purity/dp/B010CEGYN0/

Metasilicate $21 / 5 lbs
https://www.amazon.com/Sodium-Metasilicate-Pentahydrate-Min-Purity/dp/B0762WK8ZR/
(but it's a lot cheaper per pound if you buy 25lbs)

So, it's $2.33/lb with 5lb metasilicate (using 1:5 metasilicate : percarbonate to make math easier) or $2.00/lb with 25lb metasilicate.
PBW is actually on sale at MoreBeer at a super low price today only of $3.06/lb (regularly $4.60/lb) if you buy 50lbs.

I use about 2-3 ounces total for 5-7 gallons. Maybe more or less depending on how dirty the vessel is.

 

[Bigdaddyale]

3-4 parts Sodium percarbonate
1 part Sodium metasilicate
1 squirt Jet Dry liquid

I buy in bulk from Amazon and mix them when needed. Jet Dry is readily available at local stores too.
It's a LOT less expensive than PBW.

There are rare instances when something will need a quick scrub with a normal sponge.

I also use BKF as needed to return stainless to it's original luster, and citric acid as needed for passivation.
In the off chance you're using any aluminum, remember that you don't want to strip the dull oxide layer.

I've tried using more simple mixtures but they are noticably less effective. YMMV.

How do you mix the stuff?

 

[RPh_Guy]

How do you mix the stuff?

I measure them separately when I use it.

 

[Broothru]

No. I'm not sure what a good test would be since this quickly removes all visible organic matter.
Chemically it has all the same components as PBW without anything conflicting (unlike the original recipe in this thread), so I expect the performance is similar.

Like professional breweries, I follow it with an acid rinse to remove inorganic residue. (Water rinse before and after each step.)

Do you use Star San or SaniClean as the acid rinse, and if so why the water rinse after the acid? The reason I ask is that the spec sheet says to air dry, no rinse necessary. Just curious as to your thoughts.

Brooo Brother

 

[RPh_Guy]

Do you use Star San or SaniClean as the acid rinse, and if so why the water rinse after the acid? The reason I ask is that the spec sheet says to air dry, no rinse necessary. Just curious as to your thoughts.

Brooo Brother

We're talking about cleaning.

For the acid rinse I use citric acid. It's cheap and effective. The Milk Stone remover that @h22lude mentioned is phosphoric acid with a surfactant. I guess maybe you could use Star San (and rinse after).

For sanitization (immediately before use) you would not rinse, regardless of what sanitizer you use.

Cheers

 

[Robert65]

I use milkstone remover. Cheap (~$14/gallon, you use 1 fl oz to 6 gallons water,) and the surfactant makes it more effective, especially as an acid cleaner and not just a rinse.

 

[cyberbackpacker]

Like professional breweries, I follow it with an acid rinse to remove inorganic residue. (Water rinse before and after each step.)

What kind of acid are you using for your final rinse?

 

[cyberbackpacker]

What kind of acid are you using for your final rinse?

Nevermind, we posted simultaneously!

 

[NeoBrew]

How do you mix the stuff?

I've done it before in a bucket with a lid. Put the ingredients in and tumble the bucket.

I have not made a batch with the liquid JetDri. You would obviously want to add that at the time of use.

 

[Robert65]

I made a batch based on the formulation discussed at the top of the thread. Different products, but all the components fall into the recommended ranges. 7.2# Ecos Oxo Brite, 4# TSP/90, and 45 oz Seventh Generation dishwasher detergent. Decided to try it before I completely run out of PBW. It worked as well as or better than the genuine article (dissolved more readily, it seemed to me, and some grunge dissolved almost instantly.) This stuff and my trusty milkstone remover, and I've got a very effective and economical cleaning regimen. Cheers, HBT!

 

[Broothru]

We're talking about cleaning.

For the acid rinse I use citric acid. It's cheap and effective. The Milk Stone remover that @h22lude mentioned is phosphoric acid with a surfactant. I guess maybe you could use Star San (and rinse after).

For sanitization (immediately before use) you would not rinse, regardless of what sanitizer you use.

Cheers

Got it. I miss read the 'cleaning' part. Do you find straight percarbonate superior to non-scented Oxy? I've been trying 1:4 TSP to Clear Oxyclean with a squirt of 7th Generation liquid. Not as good as PBW but doesn't break the bank.

Brooo Brother

 

[RPh_Guy]

Do you find straight percarbonate superior to non-scented Oxy?

Yes, and less expensive.

 

[Gozie Boy]

I have read a great many comments (in many different places) that agents such as Jet-Dry can be very damaging to the head retention of your beers. I don't have personal experience or any empirical data on this. Probably best to not take a chance and avoid it unless/until someone can show some results that it is harmless.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I have read a great many comments (in many different places) that agents such as Jet-Dry can be very damaging to the head retention of your beers. I don't have personal experience or any empirical data on this. Probably best to not take a chance and avoid it unless/until someone can show some results that it is harmless.

As mentioned, I do an acid rinse afterwards, which removes any residue from it. The head on my beer is fine.

Look up info on how to remove the "rinse aid" film. People recommend vinegar (acid).

 

[Gozie Boy]

As mentioned, I do an acid rinse afterwards, which removes any residue from it. The head on my beer is fine.

Look up info on how to remove the "rinse aid" film. People recommend vinegar (acid).

Thanks - just the type of info. I'm interested in, and apparently had missed. I assume a StarSans rinse might also take care of this? Merry Christmas!

 

[RPh_Guy]

I assume a StarSans rinse might also take care of this?

Star San should probably work ok. The relatively high percentage of inactive ingredients and relatively high cost may not be ideal for cleaning purposes.

 

[IrishOdell]

If I'm reading this correctly, and have the OxiClean pictured, I can use this and this alone for cleaning followed with a good rinse afterwards. Have I got this right? How much OxiClean should be used per gallon of water? Thanks for any help you can give! Slainté

 

[RPh_Guy]

@IrishOdell
OxiClean (active ingredient sodium percarbonate) is what I would consider the bare minimum for a cleanser.

When using OxiClean, you should use the one that says FREE, which does not contain dye or perfume. The amount you need may vary by how dirty your equipment is, but 1oz/gal is a reasonable starting point.

Any of the mixtures discussed in this thread are more effective than sodium percarbonate alone.

 

[IrishOdell]

It appears that I have the wrong OxiClean then. Back to the drawing board!Thanks for the info!

 

[_TheTrevster_]

@IrishOdell

https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/1Q0JGUTZHK0WS?ref_=wl_share