Homebrewer's Guide to Vintage Beer
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I bought a copy at Barnes and Noble today. It looks really interesting, I was glad to find it on the shelf.
Patto, (or anyone) do you know what style was served to crew on sailing ships? Either navy or commercial? I'm a sailor, on wooden boats, and I think I'd like to brew a sailor's beer. I suspect that porter, popular in the 19th century, was probably favored, maybe switching to IPA at some point for it's durability.
Good question, to which I don't have a very definite answer.
In some periods, it must have been Porter. Just because of its huge popularity. I doubt it was ever IPA, because that was the drink of the upper classes. Mild Ale is the other likely candidate. Again because that's just what most people drank in a certain period.
Thanks. Google didn't help either. It reveals quantities, but not style. I have a decent sailing history library, maybe I can find something.
OG_IBU_Bunghole
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I LOVE this book (spiral bound). I discovered it, and Ron, and the blog on the Beersmith podcast and realized how little I knew about brewing history and how much of what I knew was wrong! The book gives me a better background to understand the tons of info on the blog (and in the self published books).
Will have to read it several more times plus the blog to answer even some of my basic questions. For instance, some beers are clearly stock vs mild while others I'm unsure how long to age.
And would all of the stock beers need to be aged with a bit of Brett when trying to be reasonably historically accurate? So much to learn 
Will have to read it several more times plus the blog to answer even some of my basic questions. For instance, some beers are clearly stock vs mild while others I'm unsure how long to age.
And would all of the stock beers need to be aged with a bit of Brett when trying to be reasonably historically accurate? So much to learn 
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
Yes the Stock beers before WW I - and that includes a lot of Pale Ales - would have had some Brettanimyces character. But that would be Brettanomyces cluasenii, which doesn't producce a huge amount of sourness.I LOVE this book (spiral bound). I discovered it, and Ron, and the blog on the Beersmith podcast and realized how little I knew about brewing history and how much of what I knew was wrong! The book gives me a better background to understand the tons of info on the blog (and in the self published books).
Will have to read it several more times plus the blog to answer even some of my basic questions. For instance, some beers are clearly stock vs mild while others I'm unsure how long to age.
These are the ageing times given as evidence to a parliamentary committee in 1899:
Stock ale: 4 to 12 months
Semi-stock pale bottling beers: 3 months
Light pale ales (A.K.) 2 to 4 weeks
Mild ale four to ten days
Patto1ro
I've been looking around for a complete list of the beers covered in your book. I am looking for the original Lemp lager recipe. My last name is Lemp and I would love to be able to make it and share with my family.
Thanks
I've been looking around for a complete list of the beers covered in your book. I am looking for the original Lemp lager recipe. My last name is Lemp and I would love to be able to make it and share with my family.
Thanks
Lumpy, I have the book. I don't think there are any American recipes in it. (I'm not looking at it now)
Okay, just checked the index, no Lemp.
Okay, just checked the index, no Lemp.
....no Lemp but its a great book though and you should buy it. It focuses primarily on English styles (stout, porter, pale ales, milds, browns, etc) with a few recipe from continental europe. On the amazon page for the book http://www.amazon.com/dp/1592538827/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 you can click the "look inside" link and see the first few pages including the recipe list.
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It will be my pleasure to sign it for you.
myerstyson
Well-Known Member
I ordered mine a couple weeks ago from Amazon. Just got it this week (I'm stationed overseas) and it was so beat up I had to get a refund. The spine was broken so badly that you couldn't turn the pages without ripping them.
So I just went and bought the Kindle version instead. So fun to read through it, especially since I intend on making a Kottbusser in a couple weeks!
So I just went and bought the Kindle version instead. So fun to read through it, especially since I intend on making a Kottbusser in a couple weeks!
Me too. Waiting to get paid to get the ingredients for my version of Kottbusser after some research into it.
McKnuckle
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Just got the book and read through it pretty quickly. Pretty neat stuff, and I want to brew some of course...
Wondering if anyone has actually brewed any of the recipes using modern malts such as the brown that's available from Crisp? I've been searching the web but have not found any tasting notes or real world experiences trying to piece these together. Odd for a book from a well-known blogger/author that's been out for a year already.
Anyone?
Wondering if anyone has actually brewed any of the recipes using modern malts such as the brown that's available from Crisp? I've been searching the web but have not found any tasting notes or real world experiences trying to piece these together. Odd for a book from a well-known blogger/author that's been out for a year already.
Anyone?
myerstyson
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McKnuckle
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Thanks for the info. Folks are welcome to reply here or post a new thread in the Media section linked above. I'd just like to know if any actual beer has been brewed using the "Guide to Vintage Beer" recipes yet.
My grains, hops, yeast & pilsner LME just came in from Midwest today to brew the Kottbusser. Maybe this weekend. Yeast was about half frozen so I'll have to make a small starter to proof it. I did some research with others in the thread about the beer & averaged a PM recipe for it in BS2. May just buy the book after looking at it a 2nd time! lots of interesting stuff in there!
I've done a bunch of Ron's recipes from his books and blog. I started a thread a while back here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/subp-lets-brew-wednesday-thread-384441/ but I've brewed a lot since then.
I have brewed the guinness recipe in the book 3 times before the book was out (it was a blog post and a brewing tv episode a few years back) using TF amber and using sp. aromatic as per a blog comment from Kristen England that special aromatic was closer to the 19th century diastatic amber malt. In terms of brown malts, considering that every modern maltster's brown tastes very different, you definitely wont be "cloning" any of the beers in the book but you might get a reasonable style approximation or at least a unique beer. ...and Thomas Fawcetts brown malt is fantastic and any recipe that provides an excuse to throw large quantities in a beer is fine by me
I have brewed the guinness recipe in the book 3 times before the book was out (it was a blog post and a brewing tv episode a few years back) using TF amber and using sp. aromatic as per a blog comment from Kristen England that special aromatic was closer to the 19th century diastatic amber malt. In terms of brown malts, considering that every modern maltster's brown tastes very different, you definitely wont be "cloning" any of the beers in the book but you might get a reasonable style approximation or at least a unique beer. ...and Thomas Fawcetts brown malt is fantastic and any recipe that provides an excuse to throw large quantities in a beer is fine by me
McKnuckle
Well-Known Member
Ah, yes I remember that BTV episode but didn't make the connection to the blog. Must find it and check it out.
So basically you're saying to use aromatic malt in place of amber, and today's labeled "brown" malt for the brown in the recipes. My LHBS stocks Crisp brown malt and Munton's amber malt FWIW. Thanks for the info on Fawcetts as well.
Really what I was looking for is a practical set of modern alternatives for the amber, brown, and black that are in most of the recipes. Maybe folks can chime in as they brew from the book. I'd love to hear impressions.
So basically you're saying to use aromatic malt in place of amber, and today's labeled "brown" malt for the brown in the recipes. My LHBS stocks Crisp brown malt and Munton's amber malt FWIW. Thanks for the info on Fawcetts as well.
Really what I was looking for is a practical set of modern alternatives for the amber, brown, and black that are in most of the recipes. Maybe folks can chime in as they brew from the book. I'd love to hear impressions.
Its the MFB special aromatic, its discussed here http://barclayperkins.blogspot.ca/2012/10/lets-brew-wednesday-1834-vassar-double.html And that is for older recipes in which the amber malt would have been diastatic. definitely 20th century recipes you could probably go with modern amber and I actually liked the 1883 guinness better with the modern Fawcett's amber malt.
There isn't a commercially produced diastatic brown malt but some people have made it to some success (bierhaus, are you here? http://perfectpint.blogspot.ca/2012/05/making-diastatic-brown-malt-again.html and google "brewing beer the hard way") probably once pale malt started being used the brown malt would have been more like what we can buy today. I haven't tried the Crisp malts as nobody carries them here. I've tried the Baird's brown and its alright but not as yummy as the TF and I'm told Simpson's brown is even better.
Black malt is another weird one as it could have been black malt, chocolate malt or roast barley. I think a lot of times they just wrote "roast" in the logs and what that was depended on their suppliers and the time. I've used chocolate in the 1883 guinness but I liked it better with black malt. Its all black and unless you are submitting the beer to a BJCP comp, nobody will care (don't submit these beers to a BJCP comp btw)
And Ron is on the thread. Is that right? Did I miss anything?
yohoe
Well-Known Member
That's funny I discovered thread. I met you/bought your book at ChuckAlek Brewery in Ramona, CA and got it signed.
Cheers!
Cheers!
Interesting reading about old vs new malts. Especially the really old ones where the malted grains were dried with wood, straw or both to dry/roast them. I found they said the straw malted tasted better back then. I'm using German grains (Weyermann) for the kottbusser when I can get out in the arctic tundra to get the spring water. Maybe not exact, but at least kindred. I've been finding that German malts have some unique flavor/aroma qualities. Like toasted bread & lightly toasted nuts to name a couple.
I brewed the 1867 Barclay Perkins EI a while back which used 2.0 lbs brown malt, and it turned out very well. I've also used 1.5lbs brown malt for Fullers London Porter. I buy mine at Northern Brewer.
The 1867 EI (Export India) is a porter and quite strong and hoppy for the style. The brown malt imparts a very distinct highly toasted bread crust type taste, almost bitter. Im definitely going to rebrew it at some point.
McKnuckle
Well-Known Member
I've got a question about the recipe format in the book (in general).
I know how to modify a recipe for my system, so I'm fine. But something doesn't make sense to me regarding the water volume assumptions. The recipes seem to be for 6 US gallons in the kettle after the boil. If you reference the original mash schedules that are provided, Pattinson lists water volumes for each mash and sparge step. If you total these up, it comes to 6.5 gallons. That is the case for every recipe.
So if we mash/sparge with 6.5 total gallons of water, and we figure an amount lost to grain absorption - which, it turns out, is approximately 0.5 gallons in every case (averaged for simplicity), we put 6 gallons of wort into the kettle.
Now we have to boil it. We're going to lose anywhere from 0.75 to 2 gallons in a boil lasting 60-90 minutes. Many of the boils are 90 minutes. That leaves, say, 4 to 5 gallons in the kettle at the end.
Is this right? What efficiency is assumed by the author? If I use 70% in my recipe tool, then I need an ending kettle volume of 6 gallons to make it match the OG and IBU in the book (which seems reasonable). I have to drop below 60% to produce only 5 gallons in the kettle with the target OG, and then the IBU are too high. I'd really like to know from the source what the assumptions are... I can't find this important info in the book.
I know how to modify a recipe for my system, so I'm fine. But something doesn't make sense to me regarding the water volume assumptions. The recipes seem to be for 6 US gallons in the kettle after the boil. If you reference the original mash schedules that are provided, Pattinson lists water volumes for each mash and sparge step. If you total these up, it comes to 6.5 gallons. That is the case for every recipe.
So if we mash/sparge with 6.5 total gallons of water, and we figure an amount lost to grain absorption - which, it turns out, is approximately 0.5 gallons in every case (averaged for simplicity), we put 6 gallons of wort into the kettle.
Now we have to boil it. We're going to lose anywhere from 0.75 to 2 gallons in a boil lasting 60-90 minutes. Many of the boils are 90 minutes. That leaves, say, 4 to 5 gallons in the kettle at the end.
Is this right? What efficiency is assumed by the author? If I use 70% in my recipe tool, then I need an ending kettle volume of 6 gallons to make it match the OG and IBU in the book (which seems reasonable). I have to drop below 60% to produce only 5 gallons in the kettle with the target OG, and then the IBU are too high. I'd really like to know from the source what the assumptions are... I can't find this important info in the book.
McKnuckle
Well-Known Member
Bump 5 days later... nobody has info about the assumed base parameters of the book's recipes? (Efficiency, batch size and target, assumed boil-off rate, etc.)
For the BP EI I didn't follow the given mash schedule, just did single infusion per Brewers friend quick calc. That got me spectacularly off recipe but was a fantastic beer.
But yeah it does look like all the recipes target 6.5g total water which seems a bit low. I'd probably add the missing gallon or more at the start of the mash since using only 2 gallons of water for 10.5# of grain (1953 Truman PIB) wouldn't even wet the grain let alone allow it to mash...
But yeah it does look like all the recipes target 6.5g total water which seems a bit low. I'd probably add the missing gallon or more at the start of the mash since using only 2 gallons of water for 10.5# of grain (1953 Truman PIB) wouldn't even wet the grain let alone allow it to mash...
Sent Ron a question about it on his website form, let's see what he says...
Ron says:
"I've used the proportions of water for each mash, aiming to come out with a volume of 6.5 gallons. I probably should have taken absorbtion/boil off more into account. I'll adjust the volumes when the book is reprinted. I'd suggest upping the volumes so that you get 7.5 gallons pre-boil."
"I've used the proportions of water for each mash, aiming to come out with a volume of 6.5 gallons. I probably should have taken absorbtion/boil off more into account. I'll adjust the volumes when the book is reprinted. I'd suggest upping the volumes so that you get 7.5 gallons pre-boil."
