homebrew taste........(where does it come from!)

[betarhoalphadelta]

I'm guess I'm gonna try to not have any trub from the wort pot go into the fermentor this next time. maybe this will take care of it or maybe I am just crazy and my taste buds are doo doo dumb or something.

I don't think that's critical at all. At the very least, I've never worried about it (and I get a decent amount of trub in the fermenter), and I think I avoid this "homebrew taste" you refer to.

That said, I'd definitely make sure that you keep any of that from getting into your bottles... Too much sediment in a bottle can have an effect.

Perhaps you might want to have someone keg one of your batches and force carbonate it. Add gelatin and cold crash for 2 weeks while it's carbonating, and make sure you run off the few pints of yeast/sediment during that time so you get a REALLY nice clear product. Then bottle off the keg instead of naturally carbonating. At the very least, it's a good experiment to see if sediment or yeast has something to do with it.

 

[Beerbeque]

Suggestion to the OP, Bring some of your beer to a meeting of the Fresno area Homebrewers club (The Worthogs) Some of the more experienced guys can help you make beer that is better than anything you can buy. Call Bencomo's in the tower dist. for info on the Worthogs.

 

[malt20]

I think i'll try that bwarbiany. Im going to force carb this next batch in a keg and i hope that is the answer. The beer never has the home brew taste until i add the priming sugar (corn sugar) and I use less or more sugar depending on the type of beer.

 

[PapsD]

If you're like me ur probably ur own toughest critic.

I went through the same thing you're going through now about a year ago. I think pitching enough yeast and improving my sanitation practices were what I needed to work on the most. Also brewing enough to get proficient and develop a system that works for me made a huge difference in my beers.

Just be patient; learn as much as you can and brew as often as possible.

 

[malt20]

sounds good paps. Doing a coconut porter next. pretty excited about it.

 

[Yooper]

sounds good paps. Doing a coconut porter next. pretty excited about it.

That's great. I don't care for coconut, but if you do that's a good goal.

Remember that being a jerk by calling names will never get you anywhere and you've had some very notable brewers helping you out. Your namecalling posts have been deleted, but I'd suggest watching that so that you don't get uninvited from our forum.

 

[Tim_Kreitz]

Too bad I missed the edited-away fireworks, but I will agree with many here who assert that getting rid of nebulous off-flavors and off-aromas in homebrewing has to do with consistency, proper technique, proper processes, and the right equipment.

I can agree with these points so emphatically because, as a homebrewer, I did a lot of things wrong for a lot of years. I made beers that were okay, but never without some flaw or problem, no matter how minor. Finally, some years ago now, I got sick of my beers not hitting the mark and got serious about the things I was doing wrong, which amounted to lots of shortcuts and some improper equipment.

I knew I'd finally achieved a new level the night I poured a beer for my wife (who suffered through the results of a lot of my brewing misadventures) and she remarked, "This is great! You could *sell* this stuff!" Then she asked for another one. That was an awesome moment, and the beginning of my own personal beer-brewing renaissance.

These days, I'm proud to say that I usually have trouble keeping people out of my keezer. They always want homebrew when they come over, and I never hear negative comments about "twang" or "homemade" flavor. Like Revvy said, it's all about nailing down and consistently doing the right things. You'll get there, just stick with it.

 

[BoomerSoonerBrewer]

Meh. I have no idea what the "home brew" taste is. LFR

 

[Yooper]

I was hoping to achieve the same with beer but it sounds like there are major limits to the quality that one can achieve or produce at home.

I've got enough invested that I'm going to brew a few more batches until I decide for sure but this kind of thing makes me think it may not be worth investing more in an all-grain setup or kegging.

Oh, I don't think that's true at all! You can make excellent beer with a pot, a bucket, and some decent ingredients. I've been served wonderful homebrewed beer that I would put up with any craft or commercially brewed beer. A $5000 system is pretty, but a $100 system will make beer that is just as good.

The key to good brew is simply technique. Proper attention to detail (like temperature, yeast health, fresh ingredients) is the only thing that matters. I never wanted to make "good enough" beer- I always wanted to make beer that is as good as or better than commercial beer.

I've seen extract beers win competitions, and I've seen all-grain beers win as well. It's all about the brewer, and not about the equipment, for great beer.

My neighbor in Texas brews extract beers and I happily drink his beers. He doesn't even have a wort chiller- but he does have an ice bath set up to chill his wort quickly and well. I would drink his beer over many commercial beers, and I have told him so. He has a propane camp cooker, a turkey fryer pot, a thermometer, a bucket, an airlock, a siphon, and a big cooler (for the ice bath). That's it. But he uses the proper amount of yeast for each batch and controls fermentation temperatures in his fermentation area. He avoids oxidation by siphoning carefully, and uses quality kits from northern brewer. I don't think he has any other secrets, and his beers are great. So don't be discouraged! It's not impossible (or even that hard) to make excellent beer at home.

 

[BoomerSoonerBrewer]

Oh, I don't think that's true at all! You can make excellent beer with a pot, a bucket, and some decent ingredients. I've been served wonderful homebrewed beer that I would put up with any craft or commercially brewed beer. A $5000 system is pretty, but a $100 system will make beer that is just as good.

The key to good brew is simply technique. Proper attention to detail (like temperature, yeast health, fresh ingredients) is the only thing that matters. I never wanted to make "good enough" beer- I always wanted to make beer that is as good as or better than commercial beer.

I've seen extract beers win competitions, and I've seen all-grain beers win as well. It's all about the brewer, and not about the equipment, for great beer.

My neighbor in Texas brews extract beers and I happily drink his beers. He doesn't even have a wort chiller- but he does have an ice bath set up to chill his wort quickly and well. I would drink his beer over many commercial beers, and I have told him so. He has a propane camp cooker, a turkey fryer pot, a thermometer, a bucket, an airlock, a siphon, and a big cooler (for the ice bath). That's it. But he uses the proper amount of yeast for each batch and controls fermentation temperatures in his fermentation area. He avoids oxidation by siphoning carefully, and uses quality kits from northern brewer. I don't think he has any other secrets, and his beers are great. So don't be discouraged! It's not impossible (or even that hard) to make excellent beer at home.

You're awesome.

I use my own recipes devised on Beersmith/Hopville and made with grains crushed locally and with extract that is fresh. I just haven't made a mash tun is the reason I haven't gone all grain but that was the plan.

I have a gas burner on my grill that I was hoping to modify to allow me to boil there but just didn't buy the parts yet.

Thank you for your encouragement.

 

[BoomerSoonerBrewer]

Also, to add to the discourse--would it be absurd to suggest that the average modern homebrewer today has immensely more control over so many of these variables than anyone making beer, say, 100 years ago and beyond?

 

[Tim_Kreitz]

...and not about the equipment, for great beer.

I agree to an extent. All it takes is racking hot wort through vinyl tubing or something similar and improper equipment can become a big issue forthwith. Agreed, you don't need a Blichmann Top Tier System to make excellent beer. But at the same time, you can't always just use whatever's laying around the house and build a brewery out of it.

Just sayin'. :fro:

 

[Revvy]

Not to dis-hearten any one. but i just feel that there are certain things that brewers don't let out once they find it.....Kind of like the game of pool...You really only know if you're taught by someone who knows the tricks already.

This is utter BS....I have found brewers, both professional and home brewers quite willing to share their tips and tricks. What the heck for instance do we do HERE all day?

Start talking beer and brewing with anyone who either does it for a living or homebrews and you're just as likely have to sock them in the mouth to get them to shut up...but who usually wants them too when you brew too? I've been taken "back stage" in just about every microbrewery I've gone into just by saying the magic words "I'm a homebrewer," I've been offered yeast, samples of not yet released beers, hops, and all manner of swag, and every tip or opportunity for discussion imaginable with folks in this little culture we have. There's nothing held secret, we're a brotherhood whether you believe it or not. You have to be hiding in a cave not to get the same treatment. Or be an ******. Othewise everything is open to us. Most pro brewers STARTED OUT AS HOMEBREWERS, so their quite open to sharing with us.

There's no mystic secrets to brewing. EVERYTHING that the big boys, and the successful homebrewers do has been shared and dissected, here and on every podcast and other website.

There's no magic secrets anyone's keeping from your. If you're beer sucks, then you've missed, or simply ignored, one of the million tips that has been repeated on here or on basic brewing radio, or on brewstrong or on northern brewer television, or bobby m's videos.....

No matter what you think, there's no such thing as a homebrew taste. There's GOOD brewing practices, and bad brewing practices, nothing more....AND there are no secrets the good brewers are "hiding" from the bad ones, or the amatures.....the bad ones are just not listening....or just haven't found that piece of knowledge that is readily available yet...

You want to make great beer....all the "secrets" are here... you want em?

In no particular order.

1) Pitch Plenty of yeast
2) Use fresh ingredients
3) Aerate
4) Sanitize
5) watch your fermentation temps
6) don't rush things
7) If you have water issues, correct it in some way or brew water appropriate beers.
8) Don't just throw crap in the fermenter willy nilly, experimentation is fine, but doing it with an understanding of what goes into a balance recipe. Start with a good recipe, either your own or someone else's...but rarely does a good recipe happen on the first try....they take some tweeking.
9) Chill rapidly or no chill properly
10) see rule six
11) see rule six
12) see rule six (the yeast are in charge, not you.)

That's it (or what I can think of. i'm sure other's can contribute a few more)

But what arcane wisdom do you think folks are holding back? Ritual sacrifice? Goat worshipping? Secret magic fairy powder only available to disciples of ninkasi?

This ain't brain surgery, it's cooking....there's no mystery to it, just learning good technique. And ALL the techniques are readily available to everyone...and on here a million fold.

This is the 21st century for chrissakes, is Charlie Papzian or Jamil farts, it'll be tweated in under a minute to every homebrewer who subscribes, and posted on every forum multiple times in under 5 minutes after that. Even if brewers WERE holding something back those secrets would have been posted online long ago....

I know that you want to find something/someone to blame for why you don't like your beer. But sadly it's just falls on you. You just got to keep learning, keep picking up the million times on here (which all are just permutations of the 12 tips above) keep learning, and above all keep brewing. There's no magic bean or secret that you're being kept out of the loop on....sorry.

 

[Denny]

Also, to add to the discourse--would it be absurd to suggest that the average modern homebrewer today has immensely more control over so many of these variables than anyone making beer, say, 100 years ago and beyond?

Not only not absurd, but right on the money!

 

[Punity]

This is utter BS....I have found brewers, both proffesional and home brewers quite willing to share their tips and tricks. What the heck for instance do we do HERE all day?

There's no mystic secrets to brewing. EVERYTHING that the big boys, and the successful homebrewers do has been shared and dissected, here and on every podcast and other website.

There's no magic secrets anyone's keeping from your. If you're beer sucks, then you've missed on of the million tips that has been repeated on here or on basic brewing radio, or on brewstrong or on northern brewer television, or bobby m's videos.....

No matter what you think, there's no such thing as a homebrew taste. There's GOOD brewing practices, and bad brewing practices, nothing more....AND there are no secrets the good brewers are "hiding" from the bad one.....the bad ones are just not listening....

Here here

 

[ChickenBeer]

Is it possible that professional breweries pasteurize and home brewers don't? Takes away a certain maltiness I think.

 

[Denny]

Some do, but most of the ones I know don't even filter.

 

[Sulli]

Two words: Cognitive Bias.

If you know it's a homebrew, you'll tend to perceive it as a "homebrew".

+1 on doing some blind side by side tastings.

 

[Revvy]

Not only not absurd, but right on the money!

For example OP, you have one of the TOP homebrewers in the country, if not the world- one who has a yeast strain named after him, AND is internationally recognized (he was even talked about on an Australian homebrewing radio show) proponent of a method of sparging posting in your thread, one of my brewing heroes, offering his not too inconsiderable insights into your plight.

If there was some vast international conspiracy to hide the truth from you, would DENNY bother posting in this thread or throughout the forums?

So Brother Denny, whatcha hiding from us?

 

[Wynne-R]

Oooh. Dogpile on the toyboys.

I used to win at tennis a lot. Sometimes the losers would complain that I had a better racket. I would say fine, we’ll swap and I’ll beat you again. It worked nearly always. It ain’t the racket

Oh, I don't think that's true at all! You can make excellent beer with a pot, a bucket, and some decent ingredients. -Yooper

 

[iambeer]

Also, to add to the discourse--would it be absurd to suggest that the average modern homebrewer today has immensely more control over so many of these variables than anyone making beer, say, 100 years ago and beyond?

I think it's absurd only because it's relative to not only homebrewers but all brewing. So far my homebrewing hobby has mostly made me a greater fan of commercial beer (the good kind).

 

[Revvy]

Oooh. Dogpile on the toyboys.

I used to win at tennis a lot. Sometimes the losers would complain that I had a better racket. I would say fine, we’ll swap and I’ll beat you again. It worked nearly always. It ain’t the racket

Yep.This is my "blinged out" fancy smancy brew rig, and I still manage to pull in the occasional medal, and have a few recipes on here that folks seem to really like and brew.

Please note that that's a FIVE gallon cooler mash tun, for all you guys who think you can't brew decent beer in a 5 gallon cooler. The one that I've used since I started doing all grain, and have put around 600 gallons of wort through, if not more.

 

[jonmohno]

As far as secrecy goes, I like how some of the best commercial beers will flat out gladly/freely give out their recipe and mainly on their websites.The secret(challenge) would be to commercially distribute it as well as they do. Err... uhhh.. "Oh, I am so "last minute" "

 

[FarmerTed]

Yep.This is my "blinged out" fancy smancy brew rig, and I still manage to pull in the occasional medal, and have a few recipes on here that folks seem to really like and brew.

What do you collect in the bucket? Is that for running the vorloff, or do you just collect the runnings in there and dump them in the boiler?

I just got a similar portable workbench, lol. It works pretty good.

 

[DoctorDuvel]

As I'm sure has been explained over 9 pages, "homebrew taste" goes away when you refine your process (and recipes). Homebrew taste comes back, as I have learned, when you get careless after dozens of batches, thinking you can refine the process by skipping a step or getting a bit careless.

 

[BoomerSoonerBrewer]

I think it's absurd only because it's relative to not only homebrewers but all brewing. So far my homebrewing hobby has mostly made me a greater fan of commercial beer (the good kind).

Who isn't a fan of someone (or some collective of peoples) doing something right? Be it cooking food, baking bread, fixing cars or----brewing beer?

 

[Wynne-R]

Very nice, Revvy. I think I have the same bucket and milkcrate. Other than that it’s completely different. I’m stovetop, kitchen all the way. Isn’t that the point though? I think you would be very comfortable with my process. And I get yours. We could probably exchange beers and tell lies.

Not sure about the “blinged out” thing. Here that involves hats boots and dead animals. Maybe something shiny.

There are many ways to get to Dallas, but they all get there. You know, it’s all relative, no “right” way to do it.

 

[iambeer]

Who isn't a fan of someone (or some collective of peoples) doing something right? Be it cooking food, baking bread, fixing cars or----brewing beer?

Evildoers?

 

[BoomerSoonerBrewer]

Evildoers?

Indeed. And trolls.

 

[LandoLincoln]

Great equipment makes for an easy brew day, nothing more. Great brewers make excellent beer.