homebrew competitions

[jdauria]

Have entered hundreds of comps over last 12-14 years and judged a few here and there. Couple tidbits I have picked up on:

1. There is such a thing as regional tastes. I find beers that score great in East Coast comps, seem to score lower in say the Midwest. For example, a Czech Dark scoring 40+ in 4-5 east coast comps but only scoring in 20's in 2 comps in Midwest. A friend who is a national ranked judged mentioned this to me too.
2. You will either get a lot of feedback on scoresheets, or very little. That's if you can even read the scoresheet. Lots of bad handwriting when you are trying to get through a lot of beers to judge, or judges using pencil, so when scoresheets are scanned, the writing is too faded.
3. Don't be shocked to see conflicting comments from the two judges. Have had plenty of beers with one judge saying "not hoppy enough" while the other judge saying "dial back the hop" or "too hoppy" and so on.
4. Send your beers to at least 2 or 3 comps...I have had beers with just an average score in one comp, win gold in another comp. Again it's all based on random judges tastebuds at that particular time.
5. Keep a bottle of the beer to drink when you get the scoresheets and see if you can pick up with the judges are saying.
6. Once you win your first ribbon/medal...then it becomes an obsession to win more!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

1. There is such a thing as regional tastes. [...]

This appears to apply to meads as well.

Back in the late 2010s I was a steward at a couple of mead tables. Low score for the tables was 35; bottles needed to score 43 (see added note) to move to mini-BOS. Happy judges and polite insightful commentary on meads in other regions of the USA.

eta (a day later): judges at each table could only send the two best entries to mini-BOS. In this event, the best entries were 43(or higher).

 

[bwible]

Do you have a local homebrew store? I would start there if you do. Search for any local homebrew clubs. Competitions are usually run and sponsored by clubs.

 

[bwible]

I don't know whether I should interject, or not. My own thoughts, for whatever they might be worth (<2 cents):

• Competitions ain't perfect;
• Judges ain't perfect;
• BJCP guidelines ain't perfect;
• But many of each could be a lot better;
• But it ain't gonna happen, so deal with it.

I believe all of these truths can peacefully co-exist.

Competitions are always a crapshoot, and effing expensive anyway. I don't bother entering anymore. Did for many years, learned how they work, and I still judge but don't enter. But, for those who do, like I said above, more power to ya.

I judged years ago but I’ve been an IT guy with a crappy work schedule for way too long now and I have to work every Saturday so I haven’t judged for at least 15 years because all the competitions are always on Saturdays.

 

[MHBT]

Do you have a local homebrew store? I would start there if you do. Search for any local homebrew clubs. Competitions are usually run and sponsored by clubs.

I had a homebrew shop very close by joined the club years ago but they closed down

 

[bwible]

Yes you can ship beers. This years entry signup has passed and for 2022 they require 6 beers (!!) and the entry fee is very high. NHC is a better fit for experienced brewers trying to compete for medals. With a local comp you will get good quality feedback (usually) with entry fees under $10.

A lot of competitions were cancelled over the past 2 years, and I am still seeing lots of competitions that are either cancelled or scaled way back. A recent DC area competition limited the number of entries and only allowed local entries.

Some of the competitions are also requiring 3 or 4 bottles now because the judging is being done virtually/remotely and each judge needs their own beer.

 

[bwible]

I had a homebrew shop very close by joined the club years ago but they closed down

Unfortunately thats been a trend. Small stores don’t really make alot of money and there is not a huge customer base compared to say a pizza shop. Everybody eats pizza. By comparison very few people homebrew. Nobody is getting rich running a local homebrew shop. Covid shutdowns, the high price of gas which affects the cost of shippping to get stock, as well as fierce competition from large online retailers offering free shipping have all really hurt the little guys.

 

[MHBT]

Unfortunately thats been a trend. Small stores don’t really make alot of money and there is not a huge customer base compared to say a pizza shop. Everybody eats pizza. By comparison very few people homebrew. Nobody is getting rich running a local homebrew shop. Covid shutdowns, the high price of gas which affects the cost of shippping to get stock, as well as fierce competition from large online retailers offering free shipping have all really hurt the little guys.

Yeah its really unfortunate, something different about walking into a shop, smelling the malts, shooting the sh$&, meeting other brewers vs a box showing up at the door

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

More information on the "competitions have changed since 2019":

A competition I've followed since 2016 is back (again) in 2022. Limited to first 250 entries. IIRC, that down from a peak of 450 or 500.

Competitions are coming back, often at a lower capacity. And probably with different score sheets.

Please help by making sure that you know what you're going to get for feedback before you enter.

 

[BrewDrinkRepeat]

We have one judge in our area that has been doing it for decades and admits that their ability to taste and smell beer is just about gone but they sign up for every comp in a 50 mile radius. The score delta between judging pairs involving this person is often massive and irreconcilable.

We have another one that takes like 30 minutes per beer. When you see this person at a table, you know for a fact they will be the last ones finished and will push the best of show judging back by at least an hour.

Both of these should be dealt with by the competition coordinator(s).

Someone who admits they can no longer taste or smell to the degree necessary to judge shouldn't be allowed to judge, plain and simple. If they took the exam today they would likely fail, so...

Speeding someone up is obviously harder (I say this as someone who is most definitely NOT the fastest judge in the room, but I write a TON so hopefully that helps!) but efforts should be made.

 

[BrewDrinkRepeat]

We finally cracked the code in our club. We made it normal to ask people "do you want the truth?"

We did a similar thing, but we also try to make it clear to everyone that a club meeting is specifically for objective feedback on the beer(s) you brought. If all you want is praise, have your friends over to the house for a poker night or something.

Almost everyone understands and agrees...

 

[MHBT]

Both of these should be dealt with by the competition coordinator(s).

Someone who admits they can no longer taste or smell to the degree necessary to judge shouldn't be allowed to judge, plain and simple. If they took the exam today they would likely fail, so...

Speeding someone up is obviously harder (I say this as someone who is most definitely NOT the fastest judge in the room, but I write a TON so hopefully that helps!) but efforts should be made.

Exactly its like if you get really old you should not drive anymore except more important

 

[BrewDrinkRepeat]

bottles needed to score 43 to move to mini-BOS.

IMO that's absolute nonsense. It would be nonsense for that to be the bar to first place / BOS, but for mini-BOS it's absurd.

They can make whatever rules they want, of course.

 

[BrewDrinkRepeat]

or judges using pencil,

Which is standard and highly recommended by the BJCP. There are some judges who write in pen, but the vast vast vast majority use a pencil.

Moving forward electronic scoresheets will likely become more prevalent; I know I would much prefer to bring my laptop and type my scoresheets, as long as the bottles are opened off-table to avoid damage from gushers and accidental spills.

(Please don't ask about the taco I dumped onto my laptop keyboard last week!)

Don't be shocked to see conflicting comments from the two judges.

Some conflicting info is fine -- hell, in some cases it's welcomed as you want different perspectives on your beer, otherwise why have two judges?

But yeah, it's very frustrating when you get scoresheets that seem to have been written about two different beers.

That said, I think there is a perception that judging should be far more of a precise, purely objective process than it could ever possibly be. (Particularly here on HBT, where I've long felt there was a notable undercurrent of negativity towards competitions.)

At best we are putting an objective framework around what is an inherently subjective process, and I feel like most judges do honestly want to do the best they can, to provide the entrants with a solid evaluation of their beer and actionable suggestions for improvement.

 

[MHBT]

Which is standard and highly recommended by the BJCP. There are some judges who write in pen, but the vast vast vast majority use a pencil.

Moving forward electronic scoresheets will likely become more prevalent; I know I would much prefer to bring my laptop and type my scoresheets, as long as the bottles are opened off-table to avoid damage from gushers and accidental spills.

(Please don't ask about the taco I dumped onto my laptop keyboard last week!)



Some conflicting info is fine -- hell, in some cases it's welcomed as you want different perspectives on your beer, otherwise why have two judges?

But yeah, it's very frustrating when you get scoresheets that seem to have been written about two different beers.

That said, I think there is a perception that judging should be far more of a precise, purely objective process than it could ever possibly be. (Particularly here on HBT, where I've long felt there was a notable undercurrent of negativity towards competitions.)

At best we are putting an objective framework around what is an inherently subjective process, and I feel like most judges do honestly want to do the best they can, to provide the entrants with a solid evaluation of their beer and actionable suggestions for improvement.

What happened with the taco? Jk

 

[Spartan1979]

IMO that's absolute nonsense. It would be nonsense for that to be the bar to first place / BOS, but for mini-BOS it's absurd.

They can make whatever rules they want, of course, but please let us know what comp this is so I never bother to enter. I don't like supporting pretentious ********s.

I would agree. I won a silver medal at NHC in 2019 with a German Pils that scored a 38.

 

[dmtaylor]

I would agree. I won a silver medal at NHC in 2019 with a German Pils that scored a 38.

I've won Best of Show for a brew that only scored the silver medal at the first table. Sometimes the BOS judges end up with a somewhat different consensus opinion than the first two judges.

 

[MHBT]

So in other words beer competitions dont hold true value, thats what im getting

 

[dmtaylor]

So in other words beer competitions dont hold true value, thats what im getting

There is value in nearly all data. But like so many things, the actual value is on a spectrum, and based in part on perspective.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

bottles needed to score 43 to move to mini-BOS.

.....

For this competition, tables could only advance two bottles to mini-BOS.

For this competition, the competition process was (and is) documented. Entries had to score at least 30, but only two could move forward.

So, like I said, lots of great mead, a number of happy judges, and some delightful discussion.

And, the steward (*cough* me *cough*) did go "above and beyond" to annotate paper score sheets noting the score needed to get to mini-BOS.

 

[Bobby_M]

So in other words beer competitions dont hold true value, thats what im getting

I wouldn't say that at all. One can be critical of the BJCP in some way, or critical of a specific competition or even a single judge and still be completely consumed by competition culture. I enjoyed competing since 2007 and judging since 2017 and will continue to. It's usually the people that care the most about a given community that will voice the most constructive criticism.

One of my biggest gripes with the local culture was the push to have the biggest competition (most entries) rather than the highest quality one. The bigger it gets, the more desperate you get to find judges and your standards go way down. Before you know it, half the judges on the tables barely know what the acronym BJCP means, nevermind training and testing to confirm some level of ability. That doesn't mean I hate competitions but rather that we can do better. I

 

[Spartan1979]

I've won Best of Show for a brew that only scored the silver medal at the first table. Sometimes the BOS judges end up with a somewhat different consensus opinion than the first two judges.

I've never been involved with a competition where more than the category winner was advanced to BOS.

 

[Spartan1979]

For this competition, tables could only advance two bottles to mini-BOS.

For this competition, the competition process was (and is) documented. Entries had to score at least 30, but only two could move forward.

So, like I said, lots of great mead, a number of happy judges, and some delightful discussion.

And, the steward (*cough* me *cough*) did go "above and beyond" to annotate paper score sheets noting the score needed to get to mini-BOS.

Scoring must be higher where you are than around here. I've been a judge for over 20 years and don't see many scores in the 40's.

 

[MHBT]

Im curious , for example say you have 200 entries(just throwing a number) how many on average receive a perfect 50 score out of those 200?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Moving forward electronic scoresheets will likely become more prevalent; I know I would much prefer to bring my laptop and type my scoresheets, as long as the bottles are opened off-table to avoid damage from gushers and accidental spills.

Paper scoresheets do have advantages.

---

In my opinion, the people who set up / tear down competition sites are amazing. Take a large area, organize it to track and serve 100s of bottles of beer, distribute and collect score sheets, serve lunch, provide water & crackers, provide for reuse and recycling of bottles. And don't forget the cups. And pens. And ...

And now, for their next 'super hero' provide power (and light IT services) for 'bring your own' devices.

---

And even deeper in the background are the companies (regional breweries, regional home brew supply warehouses) that I've seen provide space (and other resources) for bottle sort.

Think about the packaging material one would use for a entry. Multiple by 250. All of that shows up some where, gets unpacked, and reused/recycled as a one time event over a couple of weeks.

---

A final "pro tip":

bottle sort is a great place to get free packaging material for your next competition.​

 

[dmtaylor]

I've never been involved with a competition where more than the category winner was advanced to BOS.

Some competitions apparently use the top two from each category. Or use a mini-BOS which could result in a silver moving to BOS instead of the gold. There are no firm rules established by BJCP -- each competition develops its own rules.

 

[dmtaylor]

Im curious , for example say you have 200 entries(just throwing a number) how many on average receive a perfect 50 score out of those 200?

Zero. I've only seen a 50 happen once, and when I tasted it, it didn't actually deserve a 50, the judges were just overly excitable.

 

[MHBT]

Zero. I've only seen a 50 happen once, and when I tasted it, it didn't actually deserve a 50, the judges were just overly excitable.

Really? Wow

 

[dmtaylor]

Really? Wow

A score of 50 is like touching the face of God. For whatever reason, most judges won't score anything higher than a 45 or 46, even if it's perfect and they don't recommend changing anything. I gave one a 46 once. Do more beers deserve a 49 or 50? Maybe. But people are reluctant to say something is perfect, perhaps because judges are human and flawed.

Case in point: The beer that scored 50 did NOT end up winning the BOS.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Scoring must be higher where you are than around here. I've been a judge for over 20 years and don't see many scores in the 40's.

For me, that set of tables was a unique experience.

I've served tables (amber / brown) where no entry scored above 29.

In a different style, on one table, after the 2nd bottle in the flight, we (judges and I) had a friendly running joke about me hopefully serving a good beer with the next bottle.

In my experience, it was common for a table, judging a flight of around 6 entries, to send two entries (minimum score of 30) to mini-BOS.

mini-BOS was always a joy to steward. I watched experienced judges evaluate quality beers. If one were "in it to win it" with competitions, this is like being a "fly on the wall". Full disclosure: When I entered a competition, I don't steward that style.