homebrew competitions
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BrewnWKopperKat
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In my experience serving ales (the meads were a delightful exception), the highest score I saw was in the low 40s.
How about highest lager score?
BrewnWKopperKat
(Ο_Ο)
In my steward days, I didn't serve a lager table - so no insights.
Or maybe there are better brewers elsewhere?
I think there's a terrible trend in some judging circles to be terrified to recognize a world class beer when they taste it. Homebrew is still climbing out of the long running stigma that it's all dirty dishwater. You'd think judges would know better than that. At the last competition, I judged a total of 5 tables not including the BOS. I can recall at least 6 entries total that I scored over 40 and one of them was a 47 that also went on to win 1st place BOS.
I had to be honest. The only flaw the beer had was a slightly low carbonation and diminished head retention for the style. That took off a single point in appearance, mouthfeel and overall. If it were not for that flaw, it would be a 50.
The highest score I ever received in dozens of competitions/entries was a 48. An acquaintance of mine scored a a perfect 50 for a Pyment at NHC about 5-6 years ago and that is the only 50 I've been aware of.
In general I THINK if the judge pool is mostly recognized or less experienced certified (if not "guest" judges), there is a narrowing of the scoring range. It's supposed to be 0-50. We cripple the low end with house courtesy 13 point bottom ends to not be soul crushing. Then the judges are scared to say a beer is fantastic because the don't want to be too far off from their partner. If you don't know how to suggest any improvement, what do you take the points off for?
BrewnWKopperKat
(Ο_Ο)
From my experiences as a steward, any score less than 25 had one (or more) of these as a primary cause:
Occasionally, "Homebrew competition" threads mention this:
For those "in it to win it", I'll suggest 'taking it to the next level'
Competitions are coming back. They are coming back different. Many are smaller in size. Many are using different (and online) score sheets.
One more time: If you are looking for feedback from a competition, please check with the competition to confirm that what they are planning to provide matches your expectations.
- failure to execute on the "five priorities for brewing great beer" (HtB, ch 1).
- failure to execute on necessary water adjustments
- packaging / shipping / handling problems between competitor and judges
Occasionally, "Homebrew competition" threads mention this:
which is a solid idea.
For those "in it to win it", I'll suggest 'taking it to the next level'
Competitions are coming back. They are coming back different. Many are smaller in size. Many are using different (and online) score sheets.
One more time: If you are looking for feedback from a competition, please check with the competition to confirm that what they are planning to provide matches your expectations.
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Davedrinksbeer
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Some of the State Fairs have Beer Competitions. You can enter the Ky State Fair Beer Competition, they haven’t posted how to enter yet online but it is coming soon, $5 a beer/style to enter which most places $10 or more. I steward for it and I know some of the Judges. Thing to remember is for each style of beer there is a criteria for that style so they are tasting to that style, I like to make fruit beers, so one year I turned in a cherry wheat beer and it truly was a very good tasting beer, only scored a 24 because judges said it tasted more like cherries than beer even though it was a Cherry Wheat Beer. Most comments I see are, Need to mash longer, or mash at a higher/lower temp, pitch more yeast, fermentation temp was too high or too low, improve sanitation, carbonation to high or to low. If you can try being a steward at one of the competitions, I really learn a lot by helping and it is pretty fun, I got to taste a lot of beers.
Well there are some judges at their prime who can’t taste or smell one thing or another. We have one guy who can’t pick up dms even when the beer reeks of it. I know another guy who can’t taste diacetyl. So these guys work with whoever they are judging with and rely on them for those flavors. We have other guys that are so sensitive to either of these things they slam beers for them where other guys would not.
Everybody’s taste and thresholds are different. But I’d say yes, if someone is admitting they can’t judge then they shouldn’t judge.
I know one guy who says his sense of smell and taste is not the same since it came back after covid and he says he tastes onion in everybody’s beer. Hopefully something like that is only temporary.
It’s a volunteer organization made up of fellow homebrewers. Nobody is getting paid to do this. So you don’t want to start kicking people to the curb. Everybody is trying to do the best they can.
I used to never want to go less than 20 unless it was just a truly awful rotgut beer. When you just get the band aid or slight infection that happens to everybody from time to time. Stuff like that. 20 is not going to win anything and is less soul crushing (great choice of words) than a 13. We don’t want to really discourage somebody from ever entering a competetion again.
And every competition is a great place to score free bottles afterward if you need them. You’ll have to clean them. If you’re lucky some of them might even be full of random beers.
6 entries at a table? Thats when its time to start combining categories because you didn’t get enough entries per category. Who has that many tables and judges or that much time?
BrewnWKopperKat
(Ο_Ο)
Example: Category: DIPA; 24 entries; 8 judges; 4 tables; 6 entries per table.
Rewind - The original observation was this:
for some competitions (I can't speak for all) ...
... in a category with a large number of entries, it's plausible for an entry to score well (say 35) but not make it to mini-BOS - as two other entries in the same flight scored higher.
On judges with "blind spots": For competitions I was a steward at, it appears that judges were not assigned to categories where they were not able to taste common faults for that category (e.g. dms). There may have been something in the judging sign-up sheet that helped make this happen.
In closing, as was stated earlier
"It’s a volunteer organization made up of fellow homebrewers. [...] Everybody is trying to do the best they can."
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The competitions I judged at, that would have been 4 judges, 2 tables, 12 entries per table. They didn’t have that many judges to be able to have 8 judges doing 1 category. As insane as NEIPA has become.
They usually have the event at a place, whether its a local brewery or whatever and they are on the clock. We started usually at 7 am, tried to get 2 rounds in then lunch then do 1 more round followed by best of show followed by announcements and award presentations in the afternoon. Trying to be done by 3:30 or 4. Nobody had 6 entries at at table. Usually was at least 8 per table.
BrewnWKopperKat
(Ο_Ο)
When I was a steward [late 2010s], some competitions had rounds on Friday afternoon (say 2 pm, 4 pm, and 7 pm).
Yeah, this stuff sucks! Good though.
I think he means his beer was the middle beer of three pushed from first round to second round. But then he should have taken first place to reach BOS judging. I hope that's what he means.
Thanks everyone for the run down on how comps run and how to enter etc definitely not interested in entering my beer anymore for critique, medals or anything thank you seems like time wasted for me at least cheers
Pretty much, free crappy beer to a alcoholic is still free beer
A lot of what was mentioned above are my reasons for not loving competitions. That said, I've been in quite a few through the years including NHC, I've medaled in quite a few, and I've gotten really poor scores and feedback in quite a few. I've stewarded a handful, and have mostly positive thoughts about the process.
My issues:
1. Minimum score. Why bother? If the beer is absolutely terrible that you want to give it a 0, what's the difference between a 0 and a 13? Or a 14? or a 17? Would a 17 make you feel that much better than a 14 or a 6? For me, anything under a 30 and I am not happy with how the beer did. For me a 29 might as well be a 0. Call me snooty if you want, but that's basically how I feel about the beers I enter.
2. People afraid of giving out 50s. I stewarded a table where they gave a Belgian Dark Strong a 49. Neither judge (both certified mind you) could find a flaw in it, but were both afraid to give it a 50. I tasted it and it was a fantastic beer. Their scoresheets basically both said the same "this is outstanding, we can't find an issue, keep it up." I would be a little irked if that was my beer and they said that but didn't give me a 50. In all of the comps I've stewarded, I've never seen a 50. My highest score on any beer I've ever entered was maybe a 46 or so.
3. Certain styles will *NEVER* win BOS. A HIGH QUALITY, TRUE TO STYLE beer should medal and win, no matter what style it is. Any light lagers, cream ales, pale european beer..... never stand a chance at BOS, no matter how well they are brewed. It always seems to be over the top stouts, belgian dubbel or darker, over the top IPAs, super boozy Wee Heavys or Saisons, or maybe some lesser brewed style like a Weizenbock or Sahti. If the style guidelines say it should taste like Coors Light, and you brewed something identical to Coors Light, it should have have a chance at scoring a 50 and should be on equal footing at BOS. But judges tend to prefer the more flavorful styles and always seem to choose them.
When I asked a judge about this, they couldn't give me a straight answer. They stumbled around saying something to the effect of "well, these other styles aren't as easy, er, um, so, they will usually win out". FINE, then make the max score of an American Light Lager a 30, and the rest 50, or find some other way to let the brewers know that that style doesn't stand a chance.
For those of you who judge - have you ever scored anything in 1a-d, 2a, 3a, 11a, 14a, 18a (2021 guidelines), anything higher than a 35?
Just my 2c.
My issues:
1. Minimum score. Why bother? If the beer is absolutely terrible that you want to give it a 0, what's the difference between a 0 and a 13? Or a 14? or a 17? Would a 17 make you feel that much better than a 14 or a 6? For me, anything under a 30 and I am not happy with how the beer did. For me a 29 might as well be a 0. Call me snooty if you want, but that's basically how I feel about the beers I enter.
2. People afraid of giving out 50s. I stewarded a table where they gave a Belgian Dark Strong a 49. Neither judge (both certified mind you) could find a flaw in it, but were both afraid to give it a 50. I tasted it and it was a fantastic beer. Their scoresheets basically both said the same "this is outstanding, we can't find an issue, keep it up." I would be a little irked if that was my beer and they said that but didn't give me a 50. In all of the comps I've stewarded, I've never seen a 50. My highest score on any beer I've ever entered was maybe a 46 or so.
3. Certain styles will *NEVER* win BOS. A HIGH QUALITY, TRUE TO STYLE beer should medal and win, no matter what style it is. Any light lagers, cream ales, pale european beer..... never stand a chance at BOS, no matter how well they are brewed. It always seems to be over the top stouts, belgian dubbel or darker, over the top IPAs, super boozy Wee Heavys or Saisons, or maybe some lesser brewed style like a Weizenbock or Sahti. If the style guidelines say it should taste like Coors Light, and you brewed something identical to Coors Light, it should have have a chance at scoring a 50 and should be on equal footing at BOS. But judges tend to prefer the more flavorful styles and always seem to choose them.
When I asked a judge about this, they couldn't give me a straight answer. They stumbled around saying something to the effect of "well, these other styles aren't as easy, er, um, so, they will usually win out". FINE, then make the max score of an American Light Lager a 30, and the rest 50, or find some other way to let the brewers know that that style doesn't stand a chance.
For those of you who judge - have you ever scored anything in 1a-d, 2a, 3a, 11a, 14a, 18a (2021 guidelines), anything higher than a 35?
Just my 2c.
I agree with most of your points. But yes, yes I have scored these unpopular styles highly, and even promoted them all the way to winning Best of Show. It *does* happen. It simply requires good judges who are open minded and not just chasing whalez.
At one comp I stewarded at, an English mild won BOS. In another a mead scored a 50 (first 50 ever given out by one of the locally highly regarded judges.) So, these things do happen.
Brew on
There has to be some kind of standard range of scores though. I mean, it's not a pass/fail test. The individual sections have their score tallies and the total is the total. Everyone knows that anything lower than a 30 is not in medal contention, but I like to think people who may be entering a beer for the first time would appreciate me being as meticulous in scoring at the lower end as in the higher end.
I think a lot of judges leave a few points at the top end for discretionary intangibles but I agree. If you can't find any flaw and it is exactly as the BJCP says the style should be, that's a 50. I gave a beer a 47 recently but I could justify the 3 points off for slight carbonation level and head retention. If those were better, it would have been a 50.
Never is a bit confident. Examples:
In my club's last competition, a Vienna Lager won BOS and a Biere de Garde got 2nd.
Annie Johnson won a gold medal in Category #1: Light Lager during the 2013 National Homebrew Competition Final Round ...and helped earn the 2013 NHC Homebrewer of the Year Recipe title.
Motown MASH 2019 Best of Show Results
1st Drew Rodgers, Brown In Town, English Brown Ale2018:
2017
NJ State Fair:
2021:
In 2015 BOS was a Cali Common.
Sorry for beating a dead horse, but *NEVER* was so strongly emphasized that I felt a few examples were needed to undo it.
Yes, at almost every competition. I only have access to my most recent dashboard and it's convenient that the last comp was fully electronic. Here are the tables I judged that fall into your list.
Truth on that “certain styles will never win bos” in my experience, at least around this area. The closest I ever came to winning a bos was with a cream ale that scored 45. It was one of 2 beers left standing at the end of the bos round. The other beer was a “kellerbier” which was newfangled and unheard of at the time. The guy printed a fancy little pamphlet and included it with his entry. Its basically an unfiltered pilsener. Our grandmaster judge tried 4 or 5 times to throw that beer out. There was one guest judge who kept defending that beer throughout. I found out later he was a member of the same club (not our club) as the brewer who brewed that “kellerbier.” I was very unhappy about that for a long time and I didn’t enter competitions anymore after that. Because some bos rounds like that were just “go along to get along”.
But you are right, certain styles never seem to win bos. Mild ale, most of the bitter category, any light lagers. We had one guy in our club years ago who used to brew a fantastic Dortmund export and he won first place with that beer in every competition he put it in. But never got a bos.
Our club at the last meeting we just had a couple weeks ago did a “judge’s roundtable” and had 3 very high level and very experienced judges answer questions. This question was asked - are there certain styles that seem to always fare better in competitions and maybe some styles that don’t do well or don’t get the credit they deserve? And as you said, they kind of danced around it and said each beer is its own beer judged against the style guidelines, etc, etc.
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When I was still sort of a newb I asked the question why is mead in beer competitions and not wine competitions where its much more similar. We don’t boil mead and I never used bentonite or metabisulphite in any of my beers.At one comp I stewarded at, an English mild won BOS. In another a mead scored a 50 (first 50 ever given out by one of the locally highly regarded judges.) So, these things do happen.
Brew on
I never got an answer because I don’t think anybody has one. But it was like one of those “emporer’s new clothes” moments.
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Neither English Mild or Mead were on my list there. I've seen those score high as well.At one comp I stewarded at, an English mild won BOS. In another a mead scored a 50 (first 50 ever given out by one of the locally highly regarded judges.) So, these things do happen.
Brew on
Regarding the minimum score portion.... If you have a competition with, say, 400 entries. I would wager that 350-375 of those entries would score between 20 and 40. Of the handful that *would have* scored less than 20, but were given a minimum score of 20 or 18 or 15 or whatever other arbitrary number.... my point is, what is the difference? I don't think you'll find many judges that can differentiate a beer that scored a 4 vs a 14. I never said it was pass/fail, just that if you feel it's a 0, give it a 0.
If I threw a hop pellet into a cold brewed coffee, carbonated it, bottled it, and entered it as an "experimental beer - light scottish coffee something something" would I still get a 19?
You had a lot of data, and yes, perhaps *never* was too strong a word, but even in your data you only had 6 beers from my list, with 2 scoring above a 35 (a 3rd was first place, but the score wasn't listed).
You just have to remember that people pay per entry to put beers in competitions and a competition is usually a major fund raiser for any club. So you really don’t want to be handing out scores like 0 and 4 and become known as the ridiculously hard competition that nobody wants to enter. You want to be fair and honest but not hit people with a hammer. Brewers of all levels enter these competitions and people do have different motivations. If I put beers in, I’m not looking for or expecting anything anymore. I’m just doing it to support my club or another area club/homebrew store. Some people who are newer might be interested in just getting some feedback. More advanced and serious brewers only care about medals. Not everybody is in it for the same reason.
When you get a really awful beer its more likely to be from a newer brewer because the more serious guys looking for medals wouldn’t enter that. In these cases, rather than just blast the bad beer with negatives the focus should be on providing feedback and help - what the bad taste or infection could be and how to fix it. So even though the beer got a bad score there’s something to help the brewer and not feel completely awful about.
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Sure, no doubt.
I appreciate the feedback on my beers as well, but I feel like if I got a minimum feedback score and all of the feedback was "this tastes infected, make sure you clean better" I would feel like you hit me with kid gloves with the "19" or whatever score. What good is "this tastes like plastic........ but your carbonation and fill level are spot on! Well done!"?
Just give me the 3 or 7 or whatever it was worth and let me take my beatings lol.
To an extent, do you think different categories might do better or worse in different areas around the country or around the world even - according to regional tastes? That’s a real thing.
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