Home Super Brewery Build: Hybrid Electric/Gas 3BBL Build

[Boar Beer]

Good luck with the TTB and your paperwork.

FWIW we used painted cinder blocks to stand on for extra height.

We also used something like this for the spent grains.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/fortiflex-large-capacity-plastic-bucket-175-gal-capacity-blue

You will want 3-4 depending upon what your brewing. We top out at 330 lbs of grain for a big beer.

 

[marcb]

Good luck with the TTB and your paperwork.

FWIW we used painted cinder blocks to stand on for extra height.

We also used something like this for the spent grains.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/fortiflex-large-capacity-plastic-bucket-175-gal-capacity-blue

You will want 3-4 depending up on what your brewing. We top out at 330 lbs of grain for a big beer.

Thanks - do you have the Stout 120g mash tun? I was thinking of getting a couple of these for dealing with spent grain.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rubberma...cu-ft-Plastic-Yard-Cart-FG564200BLA/100344354

 

[Boar Beer]

Yes
MT120TW-RF-MW (450). 120 Gal. Mash Tun with Manway, Thermowell, Recirculation fitting, False
Bottom, (1) Thermowell and thermometer, (1) 1.5in. Butterfly valve

Not sure you want the one your looking at. The reason we use the bucket is that it fits just under the manway and you can use a plastic shovel to knock the spent grains into the bucket. You can easily move a 1/2 full bucket and two people can easily move a full one. Just check the height of your manway and the bucket when you buy one.

We have a local farmer that takes the spent grain for his cattle and I get manure for my garden in return.

 

[marcb]

Yes

MT120TW-RF-MW (450). 120 Gal. Mash Tun with Manway, Thermowell, Recirculation fitting, False

Bottom, (1) Thermowell and thermometer, (1) 1.5in. Butterfly valve



Not sure you want the one your looking at. The reason we use the bucket is that it fits just under the manway and you can use a plastic shovel to knock the spent grains into the bucket. You can easily move a 1/2 full bucket and two people can easily move a full one. Just check the height of your manway and the bucket when you buy one.



We have a local farmer that takes the spent grain for his cattle and I get manure for my garden in return.

So the link you posted shows that bin with a heighth of 28", is you MT on a stand or longer legs? I've got under 15" of clearance to the bottom of my manway.

 

[marcb]

So the link you posted shows that bin with a heighth of 28", is you MT on a stand or longer legs? I've got under 15" of clearance to the bottom of my manway.

This is about the biggest thing that will fit directly under it!

 

[Boar Beer]

Ok did I forget to tell you we put the MT on 4 in blocks?

You will also want a 1.5in TC adapter and drain hose. One works fine for us.

 

[mkakunda]

These posts keep getting more and more ridiculous (and AWESOME!) let me know when you're planning a brewday I'd love to drop by and check out the setup

 

[marcb]

Ok did I forget to tell you we put the MT on 4 in blocks?

You will also want a 1.5in TC adapter and drain hose. One works fine for us.

What's the TC Adapter/Drain hose for? Just connecting to the TC out on the bottom of the tun or something else?

 

[Boar Beer]

Yes
You have two 1.5in TC drain connections. one from the BK and the other in the MT. You will want to drain directly into your floor drain with a similar hose to the one we use. While you cant keep all the water off the floor this will help.

I would also recommend that you brew with rubber boots on. At least when you have hot stuff in the works. Hoses come loose, mistakes are made and hot water can cook your feet in seconds. Safety first. Other items you might consider would be a face mask, rubber gloves, and a rubber bib of some kind.

 

[Boar Beer]

Marcb
Last week we ran into an interesting problem. We run three elements in our BK and some time towards the end of the boil we took what looks to be a chunk of trub on top of two of the elements. The trub burned (charred) and caused a smoky smell. Not sure if it was going to stay in the beer so we may have lost the batch for commercial sale. We replaced two of the elements as they looked funky but were still working fine.
We have brewed over 100 batches with the current set up and never had this problem. We run the incoming wart from the MT through a cheese cloth bag when entering the BK to pick up grains and junk so the starting wart is clean. All Hop’s are added using bags tied to the side of the kettle and they were all in good condition during this brew. I have no solution to the problem other than bending the elements a bit.
When you are in production you may want to invest in a spare element or two.

 

[marcb]

Yes

You have two 1.5in TC drain connections. one from the BK and the other in the MT. You will want to drain directly into your floor drain with a similar hose to the one we use. While you cant keep all the water off the floor this will help.



I would also recommend that you brew with rubber boots on. At least when you have hot stuff in the works. Hoses come loose, mistakes are made and hot water can cook your feet in seconds. Safety first. Other items you might consider would be a face mask, rubber gloves, and a rubber bib of some kind.

Thanks for the tips! I always wear my muck boots for brew days as I have ruined many a shoe and scalded my feet in the past. Nothing quite gets the stink of wort out of tennis shoes....

 

[marcb]

Marcb

Last week we ran into an interesting problem. We run three elements in our BK and some time towards the end of the boil we took what looks to be a chunk of trub on top of two of the elements. The trub burned (charred) and caused a smoky smell. Not sure if it was going to stay in the beer so we may have lost the batch for commercial sale. We replaced two of the elements as they looked funky but were still working fine.

We have brewed over 100 batches with the current set up and never had this problem. We run the incoming wart from the MT through a cheese cloth bag when entering the BK to pick up grains and junk so the starting wart is clean. All Hop’s are added using bags tied to the side of the kettle and they were all in good condition during this brew. I have no solution to the problem other than bending the elements a bit.

When you are in production you may want to invest in a spare element or two.

I always have a spare element on hand although these beasts came from brewmation and have stainless bases, I'm not sure if the actual element is incoloy (sp) or stainless but I've used their elements before in a 2bbl production setting and they didn't seem to get the same buildup and crud as the others.

Would you mind sharing your cleaning process for the MT/BK? I have been using the 50g kettles prior to this so it's really just been pbw and stainless scrubbies to date. Now I'm planning cip so I'm curious what you do. Have you/do you passivate on a regular basis? I don't know if you've seen the pics of the cip cart but it turned out pretty slick and will double as a 3 station manual keg washer when not in use for cip.

Have you had an issue with free floating hops in the kettle and the elements? I was planning on doing that and whirlpooling to remove gunk prior to hitting the plate chiller as opposed to using bags.

What's your typical yield off of this per brew and what kind of evaporation do you get?

 

[Boar Beer]

We use just standard elements and have no problems with them.

Our cleaning process is simple. We only use PBW (and Starsan). We use it to clean kegs, bottles, the plate chiller, pumps and the conicals.

Our conical are not easy to clean. Our next step is to move to a couple 7 bbl conical but right now we have 7 of the 96 gallon Blichmanns they have two large gaskets which we remove after each batch. We then hit each piece with PBW before reassembling. Like I said its not the best setup but its what we got now. Could we use a CIP process??? We think not as we like to clean and reset the gaskets after each brew.

The MT is just shoveled out and washed out with cold water. When we need to clean the tall piece of the conical we put it in the MT filled with PBW and let it sit for 1 hour, then we run the next piece in usually doing 3-4 at a time. Attached is a picture of our conicals. So every 3-4 brews the MT does get a very good PBW cleaning.

The BK is just drained and washed with a garden hose and a short broom to clean the junk off the elements.

We do not passivate although it may have occurred naturally to some extent. The bottoms and tops of our conicals have been in constant use for 3 years now with no problems. We added the extension pieces 18 months ago and they are still working without problems.

Yes I have watched your build on the CIP car and it looks very nice. As we do not Keg much we just pop the tops off and fill them with PBW. CIP would be nice for cleaning a big conical.

Hops do not give us any problem as 1 we use bags and 2 we have a large plate chiller that can pass most anything. Later in the day or the next day we just drain 1-2 gallons of trub and junk of the bottom of the conical. I would not put hops strait into the BK as it would just make a huge mess. We do not whirlpool as we go straight from the BK to the plate chiller to the conical. (less chance of getting an infection)

Special note: our beers are all naturally carbonated and we do not get crystal clear beer

When we make a batch of PBW we will circulate it through the plate chiller after every brew. The Plate chiller is a great place to get a contamination and buildup of junk so a good cleaning is required.

Evaporation rate. I will have to check but generally we run a full boil for 1 hour for all but the barley wine and it get 1.5 hour boil. With your domed top BK you should be able to speed up the evaporation rate.

Basically we are a huge home brew brewery using all the same methods of a typical home brewer.

What kind of fermentors are you going to use?

 

[marcb]

We use just standard elements and have no problems with them.

Our cleaning process is simple. We only use PBW (and Starsan). We use it to clean kegs, bottles, the plate chiller, pumps and the conicals.

<marcb> Yep, I have been doing the same with the twin 1.5BBL rig (saniclean and PBW) and decided when I was designing this build out that it would be time to get to a more defined process using Caustic, acid, and saniclean.

Our conical are not easy to clean. Our next step is to move to a couple 7 bbl conical but right now we have 7 of the 96 gallon Blichmanns they have two large gaskets which we remove after each batch. We then hit each piece with PBW before reassembling. Like I said its not the best setup but its what we got now. Could we use a CIP process??? We think not as we like to clean and reset the gaskets after each brew.

The MT is just shoveled out and washed out with cold water. When we need to clean the tall piece of the conical we put it in the MT filled with PBW and let it sit for 1 hour, then we run the next piece in usually doing 3-4 at a time. Attached is a picture of our conicals. So every 3-4 brews the MT does get a very good PBW cleaning.

The BK is just drained and washed with a garden hose and a short broom to clean the junk off the elements.

We do not passivate although it may have occurred naturally to some extent. The bottoms and tops of our conicals have been in constant use for 3 years now with no problems. We added the extension pieces 18 months ago and they are still working without problems.

Yes I have watched your build on the CIP car and it looks very nice. As we do not Keg much we just pop the tops off and fill them with PBW. CIP would be nice for cleaning a big conical.

<marcb> ironically enough the pump is the most expensive part of the whole shebang, I will be posting detailed information on that build as soon as it is complete but I am pretty stoked as it is also able to be a 3keg wash station when not in use as a CIP cart. Total footprint on it is 48" long, 18" deep and about 50" tall with no kegs on it.

Hops do not give us any problem as 1 we use bags and 2 we have a large plate chiller that can pass most anything. Later in the day or the next day we just drain 1-2 gallons of trub and junk of the bottom of the conical. I would not put hops strait into the BK as it would just make a huge mess. We do not whirlpool as we go straight from the BK to the plate chiller to the conical. (less chance of getting an infection)

<marcb> I have my large hop filters I had built for the open top kettles but am not sure what the best process is for the domed boil kettle, I'm a little leary of tossing them in on top of the elements and could recirculate through a hop back with bags but I don't want to cavitate the pump by recirculating boiling wort through the hops, I need to think about this a little more. I am planning a flow path with three way valves on the output of the pump that should allow for a single hookup and just change wort paths similar to a hard plumbed system but with hoses.

Special note: our beers are all naturally carbonated and we do not get crystal clear beer

When we make a batch of PBW we will circulate it through the plate chiller after every brew. The Plate chiller is a great place to get a contamination and buildup of junk so a good cleaning is required.

Evaporation rate. I will have to check but generally we run a full boil for 1 hour for all but the barley wine and it get 1.5 hour boil. With your domed top BK you should be able to speed up the evaporation rate.

<marcb> I still expect to boil for the full hour but I'm curious as to what the evaporation rate will be in the domed kettle, probably do a pretty low gravity beer first and see what the starting/ending volume is in the BK.

Basically we are a huge home brew brewery using all the same methods of a typical home brewer.

<marcb> that's how I roll to although this go round I am trying to get a better understanding of process and scale for what I presume will ultimately be a large production system

What kind of fermentors are you going to use?

I replied inline with a <marcb> tag. I have a single 3BBL jacketed ferm and a single wall 3BBL bright to start with to dial in the system and then I'm planning on adding another few 3BBL ferms and brights as well as a 7BBL ferm for production. All the fermenters will be glycol jacketed and I have a GD nano chiller arriving tomorrow. I am not thrilled with the single zone on the stout 3BBL jacketed fermenter and will look at PBST, glacier and others before pulling the trigger. My glycol loop will have solenoids and also feed the plate chiller to eliminate water waste.

Are you going to be at GABF this year in Denver? It would be good to meet up in person. I found your website and email so I'll drop you a line there as well, I would definitely like to pick your brain on some of the economics of bottling vs. kegging and cost structure for your batch sizes. Thank you for all the info. I love this HBT community, it's pretty funny the depth and range of brewers on here!

 

[marcb]

Look what magically appeared on the loading dock today!

 

[weirdboy]

A new glycol chiller? Hard to tell what it is with all the wrapping on there, but it resembles some kind of heat exchanger...

 

[mattd2]

A new glycol chiller? Hard to tell what it is with all the wrapping on there, but it resembles some kind of heat exchanger...

I'm guessing it is a GD nano chiller

 

[marcb]

I'm guessing it is a GD nano chiller

Way to read the last post! Well played sir, well played!

 

[marcb]

First run testing the new mill:

http://youtu.be/d8yEbTBFBoU

 

[mattd2]

First run testing the new mill:

http://youtu.be/d8yEbTBFBoU

Is it really that quiet?

 

[marcb]

Is it really that quiet?

Yep, it's pretty flipping quiet!

 

[marcb]

 

[mattd2]

View attachment 211543

Whats is the cooling power of the glycol unit? I saw you are using it to chill wort to reduce the water usage.

 

[marcb]

Whats is the cooling power of the glycol unit? I saw you are using it to chill wort to reduce the water usage.

At 30f degree it is 10,200 btuh

 

[mattd2]

At 30f degree it is 10,200 btuh

=3kW?
Would that not take a really, really, really, really, really long time to cool 93 gallons of wort down to pitching?
Unless do you get more power out of it if you run it at a higher temp?

 

[ClaudiusB]

View attachment 211543

I hope you need one like this soon.
Two weeks ago I got to play with it.

 

[ClaudiusB]

=3kW?
Would that not take a really, really, really, really, really long time to cool 93 gallons of wort down to pitching?
Unless do you get more power out of it if you run it at a higher temp?

I use city water for the pre-chiller and glycol to go down to pitching temps.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB

 

[marcb]

I use city water for the pre-chiller and glycol to go down to pitching temps.



Cheers,

ClaudiusB

Ya, as Claudius points out.... I've got a dual path plate chiller and will use 2gpm of city water and the glycol to single pass down to 65. The fermenter will be on the same glycol loop and will also be able to dial in the temp prior to pitch. The city water will be reclaimed into the CIP system and other brewery functions.

 

[marcb]

I hope you need one like this soon.

Two weeks ago I got to play with it.

I saw your other pics! Nice, that will be too small for my next setup ; )

 

[stonebrewer]

Marc,

So to answer your question, yes I had been following this thread...but I have not followed it since you got your garage system fully functional. All I have to say is WOW brother!! Really like what you have done and your innovations along the way.
One interesting theme between you an I is Westy and St. Bernadius ABT 12. Do you think they are the same beer and do you think you have cloned them? Have both in my cellar and am interested to get independent corroboration on this topic.
Hope to meet up sometime soon and hoist a few!!!
Cheers!
Tony