Home Super Brewery Build: Hybrid Electric/Gas 3BBL Build

[marcb]

Phew, Hate to see your electric bill haha.

Lol. What do you think the electricity cost is per batch on your system?

 

[VonMessa]

Phew, Hate to see your electric bill haha.

Indeed.

 

[CoalCracker]

I think I calculated mine out to a little over 4 bucks a brew. I'm going off the cuff as I don't remember 100%.

 

[marcb]

I think I calculated mine out to a little over 4 bucks a brew. I'm going off the cuff as I don't remember 100%.

So at 5x that I'm even with a 20lb propane tank fill.... Given that I'll be using a NG tankless I'm guessing it will be even less as I won't be heating strike/sparge water

 

[kickflip_mj]

I thought I was bad! you are a nut.

 

[refluxologist]

Very nice! I've not started my build yet. only thing I can be certain on is that it will not be this big =D

 

[marcb]

The brew kettles arrived today from Mass less than a week after being sent! Thanks again Doug. These will work perfectly! They need to go off to the sanitary welder to get two ferrules each for elements, one each for thermowells and outlet valve and a tangential inlet for whirlpooling! More pics later today when I pick up the remaining two tables from the welding shop.

 

[Sock]

Can you explain further with your comment? Placing the ssr on a din mounted heatsink should be no problem as long as you panel isn't jam packed with other stuff.

The life span of a SSR is directly related to how hot it gets. If its handling a large amount of current, its needs a proper heat sink and thermal paste.


Stolen from a SSRs manufator

Heatsinks are used to create a method of removing heat away from the relay, thus allowing higher current operation. Adequate heat sinks, including consideration of air temperature and air flow, are essential to the proper operation of a solid state relay (SSR, SCR, thyristor or IGBT package). It is necessary that the user provide an effective means of removing heat from the package. The importance of using a proper heat sink cannot be overstressed, since it directly affects the maximum usable load current and/or maximum allowable ambient temperature. Lack of attention to this detail can result in improper switching (lockup) or even total destruction of the solid state relay. Up to 90% of the problems with solid state relays are directly related to heat. POWER-IO has created several customer-specific heatsink designs where overall size, fin geometry, fin angle / spacing, and draw-down geometry were optimized.


Sorry for the slow reply.

 

[mattd2]

The life span of a SSR is directly related to how hot it gets. If its handling a large amount of current, its needs a proper heat sink and thermal paste.


Stolen from a SSRs manufator

Heatsinks are used to create a method of removing heat away from the relay, thus allowing higher current operation. Adequate heat sinks, including consideration of air temperature and air flow, are essential to the proper operation of a solid state relay (SSR, SCR, thyristor or IGBT package). It is necessary that the user provide an effective means of removing heat from the package. The importance of using a proper heat sink cannot be overstressed, since it directly affects the maximum usable load current and/or maximum allowable ambient temperature. Lack of attention to this detail can result in improper switching (lockup) or even total destruction of the solid state relay. Up to 90% of the problems with solid state relays are directly related to heat. POWER-IO has created several customer-specific heatsink designs where overall size, fin geometry, fin angle / spacing, and draw-down geometry were optimized.


Sorry for the slow reply.

Would one not expect that the supplied DIN mounted heat sink for the SSR should be designed to allow correct operation of the SSR. A big factor would also to not max out your SSR, go for a 40A for a 20A load. I have one 40A SSR mounted on a DIN heatsink inside my box, under load the back of the box is barely warm to the touch.

 

[marcb]

The life span of a SSR is directly related to how hot it gets. If its handling a large amount of current, its needs a proper heat sink and thermal paste.

Stolen from a SSRs manufator

Heatsinks are used to create a method of removing heat away from the relay, thus allowing higher current operation. Adequate heat sinks, including consideration of air temperature and air flow, are essential to the proper operation of a solid state relay (SSR, SCR, thyristor or IGBT package). It is necessary that the user provide an effective means of removing heat from the package. The importance of using a proper heat sink cannot be overstressed, since it directly affects the maximum usable load current and/or maximum allowable ambient temperature. Lack of attention to this detail can result in improper switching (lockup) or even total destruction of the solid state relay. Up to 90% of the problems with solid state relays are directly related to heat. POWER-IO has created several customer-specific heatsink designs where overall size, fin geometry, fin angle / spacing, and draw-down geometry were optimized.

Sorry for the slow reply.

So, I assume this is pertinent to the elements that are pulling mad crazy amperage but a pump should be aok, right? I'll post a pic of my heatsink but I do believe that the ebrewsupply design is sound!

 

[Sock]

Would one not expect that the supplied DIN mounted heat sink for the SSR should be designed to allow correct operation of the SSR. A big factor would also to not max out your SSR, go for a 40A for a 20A load. I have one 40A SSR mounted on a DIN heatsink inside my box, under load the back of the box is barely warm to the touch.

As long as you have a heat sink to mount to the SSRs, you're good. If you mount a SSR to some DIN rail, it isn't going to last a long time. Switching a 20amp load is a lot of energy... that creates alot of heat, it needs to go somewhere.

 

[mattd2]

As long as you have a heat sink to mount to the SSRs, you're good. If you mount a SSR to some DIN rail, it isn't going to last a long time. Switching a 20amp load is a lot of energy... that creates alot of heat, it needs to go somewhere.

Ahh, I understand where you are coming from now. I think due to the photo angle you can't actually see that it looks like he has the SSR mounted to these heatsinks which are then attached to the DIN rail

 

[marcb]

Ahh, I understand where you are coming from now. I think due to the photo angle you can't actually see that it looks like he has the SSR mounted to these heatsinks which are then attached to the DIN rail

Better angle?

 

[mattd2]

Marcb, with the DIN mounted heatsinks do you have to slide them on from the end before mounting the din rail or can you snap them on?

 

[Dukeman9988]

The brew kettles arrived today from Mass less than a week after being sent! Thanks again Doug. These will work perfectly! They need to go off to the sanitary welder to get two ferrules each for elements, one each for thermowells and outlet valve and a tangential inlet for whirlpooling! More pics later today when I pick up the remaining two tables from the welding shop.

Where are these kettles from?

 

[Dukeman9988]

Where are these kettles from?

Nevermind, read closer

 

[marcb]

Marcb, with the DIN mounted heatsinks do you have to slide them on from the end before mounting the din rail or can you snap them on?

Slide on.

 

[marcb]

SWMBO rocks! Pod got dropped off today to begin the garage overhaul in preparation for the new buildout!

 

[Sock]

Better angle?

Perfect!

The original photo, I couldn't see the heatsink... sorry. Carry on, I'll just watch from the sidelines as my E brewing setup stares at me, half done, reminding me just how lazy I really am.

 

[Im_Lars]

This is looking like it is going to be a good one. Sub.

 

[Carlscan26]

So at 5x that I'm even with a 20lb propane tank fill.... Given that I'll be using a NG tankless I'm guessing it will be even less as I won't be heating strike/sparge water

What's your gas rate vs your electricity? If its cheaper to run electric for the boil it would be so for the sparge etc. Around here though gas is cheaper than electricity.

Do you have a detatched garage? I was under the impression you can't get any kind of brewery licensed if it's attached to a residence?

 

[marcb]

What's your gas rate vs your electricity? If its cheaper to run electric for the boil it would be so for the sparge etc. Around here though gas is cheaper than electricity.

Do you have a detatched garage? I was under the impression you can't get any kind of brewery licensed if it's attached to a residence?

For NG rate it looks like it varies month to month here is .91-.97 per therm

Electricity is .088-.102 per kWh depending on non peak/peak usage

My garage is attached but no common entrance. I believe it will take longer to get through but I do not think I'll have TTB issues as there are separate locked entrances and all finished beer will be locked in a separate cold room. Now state ABC and county will prohibit me from having a taproom open to the public here but may allow me to produce limited quantity of beer. If it turns into a fiasco I'll pick up a leased industrial space less than a mile from my house pretty cheap. At least that's the plan so far, my wife isn't too keen on having me brew offsite so I'll do what I can to keep it in the garage and her happy!

 

[marcb]

Getting the garage cleaned out, checking out the kettle layout.

 

[Carlscan26]

Getting the garage cleaned out, checking out the kettle layout.

Four vessel?

 

[marcb]

Four vessel?

Two mash, two boil kettle and a tankless for strike and sparge.....

Hoping to squeeze 40-45 out of each kettle for an 80-90g brew day

 

[Carlscan26]

Two mash, two boil kettle and a tankless for strike and sparge.....

Hoping to squeeze 40-45 out of each kettle for an 80-90g brew day

Shhhweet!

 

[Dukeman9988]

At what rate does the tankless spit out 170degree water?

 

[marcb]

At what rate does the tankless spit out 170degree water?

I'm going with a rinnai condensing unit that does 9.8 GPM at 45 degree rise. Max flow rate at 170 will be ~4-5gpm. Within 15 minutes I will be mashing in both tuns. Rinnai also has a very low activation flow rate which makes it ideal for an automated sparge system with a float switch.... I am also designing an automated valve setup that has a thermometer and will divert tankless output to a recirc loop if it is below the set point. This will keep me from getting any lukewarm water during the auto sparge.

 

[Carlscan26]

I'm going with a rinnai condensing unit that does 9.8 GPM at 45 degree rise. Max flow rate at 170 will be ~4-5gpm. Within 15 minutes I will be mashing in both tuns. Rinnai also has a very low activation flow rate which makes it ideal for an automated sparge system with a float switch.... I am also designing an automated valve setup that has a thermometer and will divert tankless output to a recirc loop if it is below the set point. This will keep me from getting any lukewarm water during the auto sparge.

So the only drawback I see with instant sparge is that you can't adjust the water profile if you need/want to right?

 

[Monster Mash]

What's your gas rate vs your electricity? If its cheaper to run electric for the boil it would be so for the sparge etc. Around here though gas is cheaper than electricity.

Do you have a detatched garage? I was under the impression you can't get any kind of brewery licensed if it's attached to a residence?

You have to keep in mind when you use electricity to heat 100% of the energy goes into heating the liquid, when using gas a lot of the energy gets lost because you are heating the pot to heat the liquid and a lot of heat goes right past the pot.

Most of the time electricity will cost less per batch even if it costs more per BTU.