HOA and Home Brewing Question

[MyCarHasAbs]

Consider moving a good distance away.

Let me put it this way. I told my gf that if later on in life if she became like her mother I'd file for divorce.

 

[GrogNerd]

If waiting a year were mentally and psychologically doable for the both of us, I'd be happy to wait it another year as her salary is a bit above 50 a year and I'm just shy of 40. Most of the houses in her parents neighborhood are easily in the $500k range and they're not even close to "upper level living". Northern VA / Metro DC area is incredibly expensive. For anyone familiar with VA we're going for Springfield.

grew up in Hayfield, used to live in Springfield

ditch Fairfax Co, come out to Loudoun. little more affordable out here and we'll have the Silver Line soon.

we have better breweries too

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

grew up in Hayfield, used to live in Springfield

ditch Fairfax Co, come out to Loudoun. little more affordable out here and we'll have the Silver Line soon.

we have better breweries too

Does that come with a Tesla? Cause that's what I'll need to afford the gas to get to work every day in Falls Church haha.

 

[pdietert]

Here in Houston they can get pretty bad also. My neighborhood is not too bad but it still pisses me off when I get a letter about my trash can being in view of the street (down the long driveway and around a corner) when there is a renter/convicted child rapist 3 houses down. Yea, he has served his sentence and I am not really trying to debate about that. But I will be selling within the next year and the biggest deterrent to someone buying my house is not the garbage cans that are visible from the street or the neighbor home brewer (not that there are any restrictions on home brewing in my neighborhood) but it is the boogie monster 3 houses down.

Anyway to put the thread back on subject, If you can not buy anything that you feel comfortable in, I would wait it out on buying, you will be glad. There was a point a few years back where I thought we were going to have to sell because of finances and other problems. I dreaded the thought of living in an apartment or rental where I did not have the space or freedom to do what I like to do. It was hard but we stuck through it and everything worked out in the end.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Let me put it this way. I told my gf that if later on in life if she became like her mother I'd file for divorce.

We all do that.

 

[syntrikz]

My girlfriend and I are looking in Leesburg/Ashburn/Sterling/Centerville area. We can't afford anything other than a townhouse. We're also concerned about the ability to brew, and are looking to find a place with a yard and a fence. If the HOA can't see the beer brewing, they shouldn't complain ;-).
Agree with the better breweries. Crooked Run, Lost Rhino, and Flying Dog close by in Frederick. I've visited many of the home-brew shops in NOVA, I believe Kettles and Grains has the nicest/ most helpful owners.
B

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

I'll def be sharing these thoughts with her, but she'll probably get her way and we'll be in a town house by Fall.
As for the HOA, I think I'm just going to stick by this rule, "what they don't know, won't hurt them".

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

My girlfriend and I are looking in Leesburg/Ashburn/Sterling/Centerville area. We can't afford anything other than a townhouse. We're also concerned about the ability to brew, and are looking to find a place with a yard and a fence. If the HOA can't see the beer brewing, they shouldn't complain ;-).
Agree with the better breweries. Crooked Run, Lost Rhino, and Flying Dog close by in Frederick. I've visited many of the home-brew shops in NOVA, I believe Kettles and Grains has the nicest/ most helpful owners.
B

Where is Kettles and Grains? I'm only aware of mLHBS.

 

[syntrikz]

It's in Leesburg, on Ft. Evans Rd. The owners are GREAT!

 

[krenshaw]

i agree with many of the above that it really depends on the HOA.. we live in a community of 37 houses and we have an HOA, though there are no specifics in the docs regarding anything that pertains to brewing.. i brew out in my garage and i know that at least 75% of them have either seen or stopped by on a brewday.. it really depends on the people in the neighborhood as well.. even if it technically isn't allowed if nobody complains then it really doesn't matter

 

[GrogNerd]

we're in Sterling Park/Church Mills, and do have Church Mills Homeowners Association

our houses are side-by-side duplexes with fairly decent-sized yards.

we paid $180k 5 years ago. VA loan helped a lot, no down payment. would be a little more expensive now, but interest rates are lower.

We like Kettles & Grains, nice place and George is cool.

have a new place coming in June, in Landsdowne called Brew LoCo. it's going in that fake Mayberry Main St off of Route 7. on the right when you're heading towards Leesburg. there's a lake with 3 big water fountains

 

[JonM]

One more thing occurred to me: HOAs can change their rules. That is, if you get into one that allows outdoor homebrewing, if some busybodies get their undies in a bunch over your brewing, they can vote to change the rules to ban it.

 

[j1n]

I live in Fairfax county and my HOA says i cant use propane gas outside (Charcoal is ok for smoking and grilling though) and i cant store propane tanks in my garage.

I have a propane tank in my garage and i brew beer with it on the driveway. i've never had anyone say a thing to me. the neighbors that see what i'm doing don't even ask what it is that i'm doing.

Basically i'm saying don't worry to much about HOAs.

 

[syntrikz]

we're in Sterling Park/Church Mills, and do have Church Mills Homeowners Association

our houses are side-by-side duplexes with fairly decent-sized yards.

we paid $180k 5 years ago. VA loan helped a lot, no down payment. would be a little more expensive now, but interest rates are lower.

We like Kettles & Grains, nice place and George is cool.

have a new place coming in June, in Landsdowne called Brew LoCo. it's going in that fake Mayberry Main St off of Route 7. on the right when you're heading towards Leesburg. there's a lake with 3 big water fountains

Our realtor has mentioned Church Mills several times. He has some listings we are going to look at once my GF and I can find time to meet with him again. We're looking in the 250ish range in a decent neighborhood. At that cost, we will pay much less than my rent in Ashburn and her rent in Alexandria.
George and Dawn are awesome. I sometimes show up there when I am bored, and usually leave with a few of their latest craft brews. Funny story, we looked at place right next to K&G. I could walk there almost. I'm trying to get the GF to agree to it ;-).

 

[GrogNerd]

we looked at that area too. some duplexes right across the street.

can't say enough good about our neighborhood here. a couple years ago, on Memorial Day weekend, we went down to my dad's house in Williamsburg.

left friday, came home monday and noticed, the front door was WIDE FREAKING OPEN. storm door was closed, but the main door was wide open.

started to freak out, but when we saw that my guitar in its gig bag was still standing in the foyer, we figured no one had come in

granted, our door doesn't directly face the street, if it did, maybe someone would have broken in.

 

[Pilgarlic]

In most states Declarations of Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions (Deed Restrictions) are construed to be contracts. You are deemed as an individual to have entered into the contract with all others subject to the declaration simply by taking title. In most states, again, there are few limits put on contracts. Courts don't limit the ability to enter into stupid or ill-advised contracts. If two neighbors contract that they won't do the backstroke in their swimming pools on Tuesdays after two, the courts don't care if the provision makes sense, it's enforceable and the parties had the right to enter into that contract and should be bound by it. So, look at your deed restrictions before signing up (buying) like any other contract. They are all different. And, yes, they can be amended. Sometimes alarmingly easily. Also, it's usually not ONLY the board or the association that can enforce the deed restrictions. If the declaration prohibits you from using propane but the board looks the other way I, your neighbor, can enforce the contract and take you to court. Final note even if your declaration has no specific provision prohibiting, a board may invoke the ubiquitous and vague language prohibiting "nuisance, hazardous or obnoxious" activities, where the board is given full discretion to determine whether the activities are "nuisance, hazardous or obnoxious". All of that said, as a real estate developer I've prepared and recorded deed restrictions, run associations and enforced deed restrictions in multiple communities every year for the last 30 years. I have never encountered an issue with home brewing OR the use of propane. I live in a deed restricted community (and serve as president of that HOA) and have never heard a squeak about my brewing. I wish I could say the same about my bees.

 

[SteveH aka shetc]

I just checked the regs for my HOA: Apparently, only all-grain home brewing is permitted!

 

[Zepth]

Having a condo and the rules thereof is IMO close enough to HOA to chime in. I had a short opportunity to skim over the condo rules before committing to purchase. This gave me the chance to see what they were about, allowed, not allowed, etc. The vast majority of them are to maintain the peace and ensure building safety. Only thing I'd like to change is barbecues on the balcony, but I do see how people a few doors down (or up) may not want the delicious smell of smoky meat in their units - possibly because they're weirdos. Likely more of a fire concern than anything else. Incidentally they didn't make any mention of a forge, so my folded steel projects may be able to take place!

As far as brewing goes I have been spotted with a 55 lb bag of barley more than once and nobody has asked any questions, everyone in the building seems fairly easy going and trouble free. After I started into extract brewing I even looked over the rules again to make sure the fabrication of alcohol was permitted. Or to be more accurate to ensure the fabrication of alcohol wasn't not permitted as is the case with these types of documents.

Essentially: If you have to go to an HOA area, get a look at the rules and regs before committing to anything. Check in with a couple random people to see what they're like, if they are easy going people leading a simple life, or if they live and die by the rules and regs.

 

[surffisher2a]

HOA's are terrible. I would live in a cardboard box under a bridge before I bought a house with any type of HOA.

All it takes is one bad neighbor with nothing better to do to make your life miserable trying to twist every little petty rule to the extreme. You might be fine for awhile, but you get a new neighbor who is against alcohol and they will put up a stink and make life tough for everyone, because once they start enforcing the rules on someone they have to do it to the rest.

you know that propane tank might not be singled out, but the "potentially explosive material" clause will get you. Or your local homebrew sticker on your car makes it a commercial vehicle and you can't have that. Heck they may even try and say homebrewing is industrial manufacturing to make life miserable. In the end they won't win but it will give you heartburn over it and they will just find something else to nit pick about.

The fact that they can pretty much change the rules on the fly without most people knowing is enough for me to never even consider it. How many people you think show up at the HOA meeting in the middle of the day to vote on rules and changes????? AND YOU HAVE TO PAY THEM to tell you how to live your life NO WAY.

HOA's are a good concept, but they got too restrictive and go way beyond their mission to keep up property values. Seriously who isn't going to buy a house because the neighbors have red curtains, instead of white?? Or because the contractor parks his trailer in the driveway of his house overnight? HOA's should be limited only to be able to enforce whatever local laws are already on the books so they remove the burden from the town/city.

If you have amenities that the HOA pays for you should be able to opt out of usage of those amenities and let the people who utilize them pay the full share, if the cost is too much because not enough people use them then its time to do away with that amenity.

Maybe in townhouses and condo's where people share walls and roofs there should be a HOA to make sure those things are kept in good order, but that is the only purpose.

Sorry for the HOA rant, I just seen too many problems with him in my life. Way more evil than good in most cases.

 

[JonM]

Agree. ^^ 100%.

Picture the most obnoxious, dips**t, meddling, incompetent, brownnosing co-worker you've ever had. Now picture that person in a position to influence what you do at home - to compel you to do what he/she wants and to refrain from doing what he/she does not want. That's the potential under the HOA. Screw that.

 

[passedpawn]

In my neighborhood it takes 3/4 to vote positive to change any rule.

I like my HOA. It affects me zero and keeps my neighbor from parking in his yard and painting his house black.

 

[Doog_Si_Reeb]

Like many, I have a love/hate relationship with my HOA. They tried to fine me last year for parking my camper in front of the house one night before a camping trip, yet a neighbor on the next street had a camper parked in front of his house for over a week (I'd assume he got a nasty-gram too but can't confirm). I now have to email a lady to tell her that I am going to have my camper in front of the house whenever I am preparing for a camping trip or cleaning up afterward.

One of my neighbors has wood on his gate to the backyard, which looks really nice. My other neighbor put the same wood on his gate and got a letter from the HOA telling him to remove it or a lien would be placed against his property. The first neighbor was "grandfathered" in because he had done it a couple years ago. For some reason, it's better to see people's weed-filled backyards than a wood-covered gate.

I'm going to go look at my covenants to see if there is mention of homebrewing. I certainly wouldn't be surprised. The neighborhood looks pretty nice, but it is certainly a sacrifice of freedom.

On a similar note, I have a friend that moved into a house in Gun Barrel, Colorado. He told me that the new neighborhood is nice except they have a covenant against homebrewing.

 

[JonM]

I guess it depends on your particular personal barometer/Libertarian bent/whatever, etc.

If a neighbor complained about something out of place for one night, or about something that was consistent with what the neighbor did, but for some arbitrary reason ticked off another neighbor, I would absolutely go out of my cotton-pickin' mind. I have absolutely no patience for that kind of stuff. Others do. Diff'rent strokes.

 

[Flipadelphia]

lol. HOA's

 

[DrunkleJon]

I am lucky enough to be in a 30+ year old neighborhood that has no HOA. Basically look in the provisions for anything about outdoor cooking or anything involving (open) flame outdoors if you are thinking of going the burner route. Also look into provisions about nusiance behavior including smells as they can be used to rationalize over what you can cook inside your house.

Condos/Townhomes/places with HOA's you really should calculate the fees and add them per year to the cost of buying and then compare those rates (30 years worth? to match your mortgage) to how much you could afford on a non HOA place. Ask your real estate person about established neighborhoods without HOA's. You would be amazed what you can afford, though saving up 10-20% for a down payment is best.

HOA's are a great idea, though they do seem to like to make life complicated on you and cost you money in the long run. The one the next block over from my place requires the split wood shingles which not only are expensive, but age poorly and need replacement every 5 years. I have the some 15 yer shingles on mine which have at least 5 more years left in them. Consider your options, older houses may need some work, but usually are free from the meddling groups and if you are handy and motivated can save you money in the long run.

Just a thought.

 

[hunter_le five]

I'm just glad all of my neighbors are really good about minding their own damn business.

But then again, my neighborhood is strictly rental properties, so it's not like anyone is worried about property value.

 

[Flipadelphia]

I couldn't imagine living in something like that. Other adults telling you how to live. I'd rather live in a god damn tent.

 

[DrunkleJon]

I couldn't imagine living in something like that. Other adults telling you how to live. I'd rather live in a god damn tent.

You can't. Pitching a tent in your own yard is banned per HOA rulebook in paragraph 14 section b lines 12-18.

 

[JonM]

You are hereby notified to remove said tent forthwith, or a lien shall be placed upon your tent.

 

[Zepth]

I couldn't imagine living in something like that. Other adults telling you how to live. I'd rather live in a god damn tent.

Sadly there are some who do need to be told how to live. As a professional driver, I occasionally need to remind people that they're safer using a crosswalk. Or that "Running that red light on your bicycle and driving it underneath my truck may be harmful to your health." Key is going to a like minded community where the rules are in tune with your own style.

You can't. Pitching a tent in your own yard is banned per HOA rulebook in paragraph 14 section b lines 12-18.

Pitch it in someone elses yard?