Hilarious Misinformation

[Homebrewtastic]

So for work I'm going to be taking the WSET test. It's a certification for Beer, Spirits and Wine. We were offered a training course through one of our vendors, that the vendor developed.

Here's a few of the gems that I picked out of the beer section.

Did you know that Lambics are defined as "Wheat beers with fruit blended into them. Usually very low carbonation."?

There's only 5 Trappist Breweries.

A decoction is where you remove some of the wort and heat it up.

And my favorite "Dark beer will always be stronger than light beer".

 

[fifelee]

Wow. Call them on it. Then tell then to send you to the cicerone program.

 

[wailingguitar]

Seriously, totally call them out on the bs! They are spreading that around like the flu if it's part of a training course. That is not good.

 

[Pilgarlic]

Trappist Breweries? I think 7 are actually recognized. They're not far off on that one:
Achel, Chimay, Koningshoeven, Orval, Rochefort, Westmalle and Westvleteren. Lots of "Abbey" beers, though.

 

[Homercidal]

Call them out!

 

[AmandaK]

There used to be only 5 trappist breweries. At the time of publication for "Brewmaster's Table", Achel and Koningshoeven were not Trappist breweries.

 

[Homebrewtastic]

Not to worry. I just shot out an email. I just got a good laugh out of the dark beer one. I wonder if they know that my dark mild has 3.5%ABV and that my IPA that's fermenting will end up at about 6%.

 

[IffyG]

A decoction is where you remove some of the wort and heat it up.

Call me crazy, but a decoction in it's simplest form is removing some of the wort and heating it up...

 

[Airborneguy]

I just read an article a few days ago that they are about to certify another Trappist Brewery.

Here's the only decent mention I can find without more time to search:

http://brookstonbeerbulletin.com/the-8th-trappist-brewery/

 

[TTB-J]

Call me crazy, but a decoction in it's simplest form is removing some of the wort and heating it up...

You're crazy... and correct.

 

[Jaysus]

I just read an article a few days ago that they are about to certify another Trappist Brewery.

Here's the only decent mention I can find without more time to search:

http://brookstonbeerbulletin.com/the-8th-trappist-brewery/

Yep, I saw that too.

Another link: http://mybeerbuzz.blogspot.com/2012/02/8th-trappist-brewery-coming-in-austria.html

 

[Burgs]

Call me crazy, but a decoction in it's simplest form is removing some of the wort and heating it up...

Aren't you supposed to take a portion of the mash and heat it up? As in, not just the wort, but the grains too...

 

[bb239605]

Yes a decoction is removing a portion of mash, not wort

 

[passedpawn]

Yes a decoction is removing a portion of mash, not wort

The purpose of the decoction is to raise the temp of the mash without adding any further liquid. It's possible to do this by using just the wort if the mash is thin enough. But for many brewers, you won't get enough wort (it's trapped in grain) to change the temp enough to get to the next rest. Since there is nothing wrong with boiling the low pH mash, most brewers just pull both grain and wort - and then avoid having to lauter.

 

[weirdboy]

Call me crazy, but a decoction in it's simplest form is removing some of the wort and heating it up...

That's a thin decoction, though, and is only used for mashout steps so far as I know. A "real" decoction is removing the thick part of the mash.


The reasoning is that by removing the thick portion you are leaving most of the liquid behind, which has all the enzymes responsible for converting starches. When you remove the liquid and heat it up to boiling, you are denaturing the enzymes. For a thick decoction this is not a problem because there are plenty of enzymes left in the liquid in the mash tun, but for a thin decoction this could be a significant portion of the enzymes. Since the purpose of the mash out step is to denature those enzymes anyway, it makes sense to do a thin decoction for that.

 

[janivar123]

Well they got the lambic almost right... Exept the fruit part

 

[IffyG]

That's a thin decoction, though, and is only used for mashout steps so far as I know. A "real" decoction is removing the thick part of the mash.


The reasoning is that by removing the thick portion you are leaving most of the liquid behind, which has all the enzymes responsible for converting starches. When you remove the liquid and heat it up to boiling, you are denaturing the enzymes. For a thick decoction this is not a problem because there are plenty of enzymes left in the liquid in the mash tun, but for a thin decoction this could be a significant portion of the enzymes. Since the purpose of the mash out step is to denature those enzymes anyway, it makes sense to do a thin decoction for that.

I guess I don't see most of those points as being true misinformation, aside from the darker beers are stronger bit. The other stuff it seems to be outdated (the number of Trappist Breweries), sort of correct (decoction) or gives a mostly correct perception of the style they name (lambic).

Given the context of the WSET, it's close enough for their needs...

 

[Pilgarlic]

The Trappist info isn't outdated, just trivially mistaken. It's been 7 forever (relax. "forever" is used figuratively).

 

[Homebrewtastic]

I guess I don't see most of those points as being true misinformation, aside from the darker beers are stronger bit. The other stuff it seems to be outdated (the number of Trappist Breweries), sort of correct (decoction) or gives a mostly correct perception of the style they name (lambic).

Given the context of the WSET, it's close enough for their needs...

I look at it as pretty big misinformation.

For one, most people would agree that a decoction mash consists of removing part of the grain along with some of the liquid and boiling.

Also I think that if information is more than five years out-dated... it's safe to call it bad information.

And how is that a mostly correct perception of the style lambic? Sure lambics are made with wheat and some are made with fruit but when you think lambic do you consider those two to be it's defining characteristics? I highly doubt it.

I should note that the training materials weren't actually provided from the WSET at all. Rather this is a group of training modules put together by the vendor to prep their own employees for the WSET.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I look at it as pretty big misinformation.

For one, most people would agree that a decoction mash consists of removing part of the grain along with some of the liquid and boiling.

Also I think that if information is more than five years out-dated... it's safe to call it bad information.

And how is that a mostly correct perception of the style lambic? Sure lambics are made with wheat and some are made with fruit but when you think lambic do you consider those two to be it's defining characteristics? I highly doubt it.

I should note that the training materials weren't actually provided from the WSET at all. Rather this is a group of training modules put together by the vendor to prep their own employees for the WSET.

You mean a raspberry weizen isn't a kind of lambic?

And I agree on pretty much all points.

 

[TTB-J]

For one, most people would agree that a decoction mash consists of removing part of the grain along with some of the liquid and boiling.

I don't necessarily agree with all of that. It's not as if removing the grain is the point, the point is getting enough liquid to boil to be able to raise the temperature of the mash. Either way, the fact that arguably reasonable people can differ on the meaning, which is likely enough to take that particular fact out of the "hilarious misinformation" category.

As for the 5 trappist breweries deal, I still don't think that is really that bad. I think everyone here can agree that there are 5 traditional, well-known, long-standing trappist breweries (Chimay, Orval, Rochefort, Westvleteren, and Westmalle). Of the other two, one was a historical trappist brewery that spent the better part of the last century not brewing and has only recently (in trappist terms) started back up again; the other was stripped of it's trappist logo during the early 2000's and isn't located in Belgium. The official naming and branding of trappist beers didn't really start until the late 1990's.

Oh well, I guess it's not a big deal - I just don't think this is all that bad for someone trying to come up with some very general info.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Darker beer being "stronger" does not have to have anything to do with ABV.

"Stronger" can also be a perception of bolder flavor. Stout is synonymous as having stronger flavors than "most" lighter colored beer.

Thus, I do not see any of those statements as being blatantly wrong or misinformed but they are definitely oversimplified and vague.

 

[weirdboy]

Darker beer being "stronger" does not have to have anything to do with ABV.

"Stronger" can also be a perception of bolder flavor. Stout is synonymous as having stronger flavors than "most" lighter colored beer.

This point would be more valid if stout was the only dark beer. A Dark American Lager has virtually no flavor compared to an American Pale Ale.

 

[Pilgarlic]

All seven of the current Trappist breweries were Trappist breweries when they came together to establish the Trappist designation in 1997.

 

[Homebrewtastic]

Oh well, I guess it's not a big deal - I just don't think this is all that bad for someone trying to come up with some very general info.

I guess that's why our view differs. I don't think that the info should be "general" it needs to be more detailed as this is a training tool for an actual certification. I obviously don't expect it to be as detailed as the cicerone program as this one is for beer wine and spirits.

But as this is a third party training module I think they are doing the trainees a disservice because on the test it won't be "how many well known Trappist breweries exist?" it will be "how many Trappist breweries exist?".

 

[Teromous]

Big fish, little pond. This effect happens in many fields, in many ways. Sorry it happened to you

 

[VTDuffman]

But as this is a third party training module I think they are doing the trainees a disservice because on the test it won't be "how many well known Trappist breweries exist?" it will be "how many Trappist breweries exist?".

Now that you mention it, I just thought of something...

I'd be willing to bet that it's not the training materials that are wrong, it's the test itself. Third Party Test preparation material vendors aren't in the business of giving you the "right answers" according to the world, they're in the business of giving you the "right answers" according to the test. Good angle, I bet that's the problem.

The reason the test prep materials are telling you that there are 5 Trappist breweries, it's because if the test asks you how many Trappist breweries there are, it expects you to answer "5."

 

[IffyG]

And how is that a mostly correct perception of the style lambic? Sure lambics are made with wheat and some are made with fruit but when you think lambic do you consider those two to be it's defining characteristics? I highly doubt it.

I should note that the training materials weren't actually provided from the WSET at all. Rather this is a group of training modules put together by the vendor to prep their own employees for the WSET.

Ask anyone to name a lambic, they are going to name a Lindemans product. They have a higher percentage of wheat than the majority of other beers and contain fruit.

As best as I can tell, the goal of WSET examinations is to make someone proficient enough to serve a beer/wine/spirit in restaurant setting with a bit of background knowledge. I fail to see how their definition of lambic doesn't meet that need.

 

[IffyG]

The reason the test prep materials are telling you that there are 5 Trappist breweries, it's because if the test asks you how many Trappist breweries there are, it expects you to answer "5."

Ding ding ding... we have a winner.

 

[wailingguitar]

Ask anyone to name a lambic, they are going to name a Lindemans product. They have a higher percentage of wheat than the majority of other beers and contain fruit.

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Every bottle Lindeman's I have had, as well as every draught, has been pretty effervescent ... definitely not low in carbonation as they claim