Higher efficiency=more beer?

[CascadeOK]

So my first BIAB was low in brewhouse efficiency (55.5%). I feel like I have a handle on that, and I'm getting a mill so I can do a fine credit card width crush.
(I'm single vessel biab with a nice viole bag, no sparge)

My question is say my recipe assumes a 72% efficiency. I take a specific gravity reading before I xfer into a ferm container and I'm 80% and I'd rather have more a bit more beer than alcohol. Any reason I cant "top off" with a bit more water to get back to the 72% SG reading? Obviously any adjuncts adding flavor would be diluted (belgian candi sugar, flavorings/spices, etc. if you were using them) but it seems to me it'd be no different than topping off when we did extract brewing.

 

[giraffe]

If your fermenter is big enough. Your hopping will be affected as well, as that is being diluted too.

If you have a good water supply, or use sterile (ish) RO water, you can top off the fermenter, I do it all the time, usually to correct volumes.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Best thing to do here is to take a pre-boil gravity reading. Then you'll know where you're going to end up and can adjust accordingly. If I'm high, I'll top off the boil kettle with a little water to adjust to where I need to be, or reduce boil time (normally the first). If I'm low, I'll boil a little bit longer or bump it up with some DME (again, usually the first). And then in both cases you can adjust the hopping slightly to keep in the same place.

 

[Magnus314]

You're good.

I prefer to add water after the ferment, so i can adjust to taste instead of pre-planned numbers. But yes, it's alright to add some extra water.

Better still would be to do a pour over or batch sparge to increase boil volume and get even MORE beer (or a higher SG).

 

[pdog44450]

Higher efficiency doesn't necessarily mean more beer, it just means you'll have a higher OG, which results in more alcohol. If you add top-up you will dilute hops and flavor and change the body. 80% BIAB is very good.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Higher efficiency doesn't necessarily mean more beer, it just means you'll have a higher FG, which results in more alcohol. If you add top-up you will dilute hops and flavor and change the body. 80% BIAB is very good.

Why will you get a higher FG? I'm confused there.

Higher efficiency means you use less grain. The key part of efficiency that many people miss is repeatability. If you get your system dialed and know how to predict efficiency then you can produce great beer reliably. AKA, you know what your OG will be and can estimate FG to estimate your ABV. Then you know if all the elements are going to come together to create a balanced beer. Adding hops to a double IPA and ending with a session IPA would great a super bitter beer that is way out of whack. If you can predict your OG then you won't run into those issues.

Practice, Practice, Practice!

 

[pdog44450]

Why will you get a higher FG? I'm confused there.

Higher efficiency means you use less grain. The key part of efficiency that many people miss is repeatability. If you get your system dialed and know how to predict efficiency then you can produce great beer reliably. AKA, you know what your OG will be and can estimate FG to estimate your ABV. Then you know if all the elements are going to come together to create a balanced beer. Adding hops to a double IPA and ending with a session IPA would great a super bitter beer that is way out of whack. If you can predict your OG then you won't run into those issues.

Practice, Practice, Practice!

Sorry, my mistake! Stupidly typed FG instead of OG. Too many homebrews!

 

[sandyeggoxj]

No worries... it happens...

Brew on!

 

[ChelisHubby]

Sandy is right part of the time I seem to get 85% but I can't repeat on demand Yet!

 

[TexasWine]

My question is say my recipe assumes a 72% efficiency. I take a specific gravity reading before I xfer into a ferm container and I'm 80% and I'd rather have more a bit more beer than alcohol. Any reason I cant "top off" with a bit more water to get back to the 72% SG reading?

Just to clarify, what efficiency are we talking about here so we're comparing apples and apples. Recipes are built on brew house efficiency for the most part. I'm assuming 72% is brew house. But does that 80% number include volume losses to the kettle? It's not exactly clear because you're talking about gravity before putting everything in the fermenter. Your brew house efficiency can be significantly impacted by how much you loose in the kettle, if any.

 

[madscientist451]

My question is say my recipe assumes a 72% efficiency. I take a specific gravity reading before I xfer into a ferm container and I'm 80% and I'd rather have more a bit more beer than alcohol. Any reason I cant "top off" with a bit more water to get back to the 72% SG reading? Obviously any adjuncts adding flavor would be diluted (belgian candi sugar, flavorings/spices, etc. if you were using them) but it seems to me it'd be no different than topping off when we did extract brewing.

The quick answer is, yes you can top off with water, you've already noted that the beer will be diluted, so that's not what you want to do every time.
I'm assuming you are chilling your gravity sample to an acceptable level and making gravity adjustments based on the temperature.
If your not hitting the gravity targets your recipe calls for, you can either change your process or tweak the recipe and keep the process the same.
Tweaking the recipe can include altering the grain bill or keeping the grain bill the same and starting with more water.
My two cents is: Don't worry about efficiency too much, focus your attention on gravity readings and what the beer comes out like at the end.

 

[Qhrumphf]

The key part of efficiency that many people miss is repeatability. If you get your system dialed and know how to predict efficiency then you can produce great beer reliably.

This.

If you're consistently getting 55% efficiency, there's probably something wrong with your process. But if you're getting 65% efficiency consistently, and the beer tastes good, the only difference between 65% consistently and 85% consistently is a couple bucks of grain per batch. The important thing is that you know what you get out depending on what you put in.

Just to clarify, what efficiency are we talking about here so we're comparing apples and apples. Recipes are built on brew house efficiency for the most part. I'm assuming 72% is brew house. But does that 80% number include volume losses to the kettle? It's not exactly clear because you're talking about gravity before putting everything in the fermenter. Your brew house efficiency can be significantly impacted by how much you loose in the kettle, if any.

I hate "brewhouse efficiency" because it's so batch and recipe dependent, and as a result software buggers it all up. The way I look at it, "efficiency" refers to gravity in the boil kettle, and what is extracted from the mash. The complication of my line of thinking (which no one has to consider accurate or agree with) is that you have to deal with batch size not as fermenter volume but as post-boil, post chill volume. But the point is, I don't trust BeerSmith to accurately figure hop loss (which it won't- you have to tell it to) to accurately determine my "brewhouse efficiency" to hit my volume at the right gravity with the right grain bill. Too easy to end up at the wrong gravity that way. I'd rather start from a set preboil volume, end at a set postboil volume, call that my batch size, and hit my gravity every single time. As I'm more concerned with the right gravity than the right batch size, loss to the kettle is an afterthought in my book.

 

[PlexVector]

This.

If you're consistently getting 55% efficiency, there's probably something wrong with your process. But if you're getting 65% efficiency consistently, and the beer tastes good, the only difference between 65% consistently and 85% consistently is a couple bucks of grain per batch. The important thing is that you know what you get out depending on what you put in.



I hate "brewhouse efficiency" because it's so batch and recipe dependent, and as a result software buggers it all up. The way I look at it, "efficiency" refers to gravity in the boil kettle, and what is extracted from the mash. The complication of my line of thinking (which no one has to consider accurate or agree with) is that you have to deal with batch size not as fermenter volume but as post-boil, post chill volume. But the point is, I don't trust BeerSmith to accurately figure hop loss (which it won't- you have to tell it to) to accurately determine my "brewhouse efficiency" to hit my volume at the right gravity with the right grain bill. Too easy to end up at the wrong gravity that way. I'd rather start from a set preboil volume, end at a set postboil volume, call that my batch size, and hit my gravity every single time. As I'm more concerned with the right gravity than the right batch size, loss to the kettle is an afterthought in my book.

That's an interesting point. Although both are interrelated, the Brewhouse eff is weighted on the overall economics, and post boil eff is the hot side processes or rather the non-economics side of things. Could be worded better but late for a meeting.

 

[TexasWine]

I hate "brewhouse efficiency" because it's so batch and recipe dependent, and as a result software buggers it all up. The way I look at it, "efficiency" refers to gravity in the boil kettle, and what is extracted from the mash. The complication of my line of thinking (which no one has to consider accurate or agree with) is that you have to deal with batch size not as fermenter volume but as post-boil, post chill volume. But the point is, I don't trust BeerSmith to accurately figure hop loss (which it won't- you have to tell it to) to accurately determine my "brewhouse efficiency" to hit my volume at the right gravity with the right grain bill. Too easy to end up at the wrong gravity that way. I'd rather start from a set preboil volume, end at a set postboil volume, call that my batch size, and hit my gravity every single time. As I'm more concerned with the right gravity than the right batch size, loss to the kettle is an afterthought in my book.

I'm with ya on all this.

 

[CascadeOK]

I was talking about brewhouse efficiency, and thanks to all for the great input. I tasted my carbed 55.5% eff blue moon clone. Flavor is a bit thinner than I hoped. I can still taste the alcohol and the orange.corriander flavors, but the grain flavor is not where I'd like. I'd previously asked about this in another thread and got enough advice that I believe my process is ok but my crush is too coarse or I'll have to consider some sparging.

Anyway, too close to my trip I was going to take it on so no time for corrections. Since I was on the low end of the scale I was just pondering what happens if I end up on the other end of the efficiency scale when I get my mill. The good news is I still made beer and it's decent enough to drink

 

[Yooper]

Higher efficiency doesn't necessarily mean more beer, it just means you'll have a higher OG, which results in more alcohol. If you add top-up you will dilute hops and flavor and change the body. 80% BIAB is very good.

You won't "dilute" the hops flavor and body if you hit the OG you planned on.

If you have a recipe for 65% efficiency, but hit 80% efficiency, adding water to get to your planned OG is fine.

Or, take a preboil reading and if you find that you're way high, you can increase the hopping to keep the beer balanced.

By not adjusting, instead of the beer being diluted by adding water, it will be less bitter (since the OG is higher but the hopping level is not) and not the beer originally intended.

 

[LKABrewer]

You're good.

I prefer to add water after the ferment, so i can adjust to taste instead of pre-planned numbers. But yes, it's alright to add some extra water.

Better still would be to do a pour over or batch sparge to increase boil volume and get even MORE beer (or a higher SG).

If you want to add water post-fermentation, be sure to boil to remove all oxygen from the water, else you will oxidize your beer.

 

[Qhrumphf]

If you want to add water post-fermentation, be sure to boil to remove all oxygen from the water, else you will oxidize your beer.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=536915

That discussion has already happened on another thread.