High OG Cream Ale ?

[Bowtiebrewery]

Hi guys its been a few years since I brewed, however I did indeed brew a few weeks ago... I altered Jamil's Weed, Feed, and Mow recipe a bit by adding a lb of sugar into the mash and extended the mash and boil to 90 minutes.

I ended up with an OG of 1.062 and then finished at 1.009. By my math thats damn near 7%abv!

So I did a little taste test on it just to see, and the flavor is within style. Very small hint of hops (suitable with style) Color is dead on.
Clarity is a bit hazy right now, but still not a deal killer...

I didnt detect any hot alcohol flavors from my sample, so I know that keeping fermentation temps regulated at 64* kept the beer in check. I guess i want to know if anyone else has brewed something that is out of spec with the brewing style in a Cream Ale?

Recipe is:
9.5# US 2 Row
9.5# German Pilsner malt (didnt have access to US)
.5 LBS Corn Sugar
1lb Cane Sugar

1.5oz Tett 60 mins
1 oz Tett Whirlpool
Whirfloc at 15mins
2 PACKS OF US-05 PER 5.5 GAL

 

[giraffe]

Yep a lb of sugar will raise the gravity by 1.009 or so. You made fancy malt liquor, its not a bad thing.

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

Honestly, thats exactly how I would describe it... Unfortunately I am also detecting Diacetyl in the finished product though... I wonder if Leaving it for a while will reduce the diacetyl perception?

However, I can say that this is my clearest beer ever... Gelatin really did its job and its crystal clear. Good Lacing on the glass, and honestly, not a bad beer. I'll have to take a picture.

 

[dammBrewer]

I actually made this same recipe a few days ago. Tried to do it straight from the book, per Jamil's "directions". I believe in there it calls for .75lb of sugar in the mash....so i don't think you did anything wrong there.

I did that as well, except I forgot to add it to the mash. It was a late night and I wasn't sure if I should add it at all...but i decided to add it to the fermenter after chilling. Figured that way the yeast would have a little extra sugar to chomp on. It's going away in my conical...not strong, but steady.

Results coming in the next week or so......

Hope it turns out as yours did minus the Diacetyl.

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

I'm not one for adding sugar directly to the fermenter, but I'd be curious to find out how yours turns out... Typically, I would imagine you would need to add that to the mash as those sugars need time to convert. Who know's maybe it will dry it out a bit...

Post up later, as I'm interested to hear about your results.

 

[dammBrewer]

Will do bowtie.

I have never added sugar to a mash or fermenter before. I also have never made a Cream Ale, but, it seemed easy enough.....until

I do also agree that I hope it dries it out a little.

Results to follow....

 

[xtremesr31]

Let it sit for a few more days on the yeast and it will absorb some of the diacetyl. A quick way of testing for diacetyl is to take a small sample in a small cup, cover it with saran wrap and microwave it for 30 seconds. When it comes out undo the saran wrap and you should be able to tell if there is still diacetyl or not by smelling it.

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

Thanks, I did not know about that quick test.

Also unfortunately, the yeast sitting is a moot point since its sitting in kegs right now But its not so pronounced that its offputting, I just can taste it because the beer is completely devoid of any bitterness... I think the beer is plenty malty and I think even that the maltyness might even be amplifying that perceived slickness of mouthfeel.

Oh well... Lesson learned... Won't happen again in my next beer.

 

[porterpounder]

I can't wrap my head around adding sugar to the mash instead of the kettle. What's the point? Seems like a waste of sugar. Why take the chance of leaving it behind in the mash tun? It isn't going to have any effect on the mash itself and obviously doesn't need to be converted to anything. JZ knows his ****, but that sounds like a typo.

 

[dammBrewer]

I can't say that i disagree with your statement porter, but, i did a little bit of reading around before brewing this. I also looked at Beersmith, brewtoad, and brewers friend just for cross reference. It seemed that a very good portion of the clones/variations of JZ's recipe all have some kind of sugar being added to the mash.

As I stated earlier, i have never done such a thing previously. I also, like you, spent a good amount of time trying to wrap my head around adding it to the mash. I think in part, that may have added to my mental block of doing so. I just don't get it either. I was in turn going to add it to the boil, however, I chose against that as well due to the fact that i was concerned about scorching (but in retrospect, probably didn't need that concern). So, i added it to the ferm.

I will say that I did have another oh crap moment as i went to check on my airlock activity the next morning and found nothing. I thought for SURE with a full yeast packet, added sugar, and proper temp control that i would have all kinds of activity. Nope. It has since taken off....but it took a day or so.

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

Im going to postulate on this and, take this with a grain of salt... I think part of the reason you add the sugar to the mash has to do with conversion at mash temperatures. If you were to add the sugar to the boil, you are technically adding un-converted sugars to the boil. Damn where are the bio-chem guys to add their 2 cents on this?????

 

[cilestiok]

Sugars don't need to be converted. Starches do. Adding refined sugar at any point in the process (mash, boil, fermenter) is going to add 100% fermentable Gravity.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[ericbw]

Do you guys no what conversion is? Changing starch to sugar. Sugar is already... Sugar. Right?

 

[SnakeRidge]

Do you guys no what conversion is? Changing starch to sugar. Sugar is already... Sugar. Right?

Yep. The full term is 'starch conversion.' Starch converted to sugar by amylase enzymes

 

[Jawbox0]

I can see adding sugar to the boil though as it would effect hop isomerization, but not all that since it's not much of the total gravity.

As far as the diacetyl, since it's off the yeast, it's probably too late to fix. You can try pulling the kegs out and leaving them at room temperature for a few weeks. There's always a little yeast in suspension unless you filter. It wouldn't hurt anything to try it.

You can also do a small dryhop in the keg to mask some of the diacetyl.

 

[z-bob]

Adding sugar to the boil -- early -- will hydrolyze the sugar into glucose and fructose (a.k.a. "invert sugar") I don't know if that really makes a difference or not; some people say cane sugar causes that "cidery" taste but invert sugar doesn't.

Adding sugar to the mash seems odd. A little will get left behind in the spent grain.

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

Jawbox... I might actually try the dryhop... I pulled a keg out 2 days ago to make room for my Zombie Dust Clone that had to go in... The Cream ale still isnt where I want it to be... I'll leave one out and then dry hop it for a little while, and if it still sucks, I'll be dumping it. No need to try and salvage a crappy beer when I have a perfectly good one ready to go...

 

[dyqik]

I'm pretty sure that BCS doesn't explicitly tell you to add the sugar to the mash. It doesn't tell you when to add it, and the only detailed instructions given are for a recipe without sugar. Almost all the recipes are for extract brews any way, and I think it assumes the all-grain brewers know what they are doing with their system.

 

[ericbw]

I'm pretty sure that BCS doesn't explicitly tell you to add the sugar to the mash. It doesn't tell you when to add it, and the only detailed instructions given are for a recipe without sugar. Almost all the recipes are for extract brews any way, and I think it assumes the all-grain brewers know what they are doing with their system.

More accurately, it sounds like a mistake. Gasp!