High gravity mashing advice

[money spud]

I'm brewing a Barley Wine this weekend but only have a 5 gallon mash tun, I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. Time is not an issue so our first idea is to cut the grains and water in half and to make a 2.5 gallon batch, and then do the mashing and sparging process again add it to the first batch and then boil and ferment as normal from there. Would this work, am I missing any obvious pitfalls with this method?

 

[GuldTuborg]

That idea would work, but it would also double your grains (or maybe slightly less than this if you don't sparge but only use first runnings).

I've taken two approaches to this issue before. The first, and easiest, is to use all of your specialty grains with as much base malt as you can fit in your tun, then make up the remainder of the gravity with light extract. It's surprisingly effective.

The other I've used is just to plan on a ridiculously long boil. Mash as much as you can, sparge twice if you need to, but get everything you can out of those grains. This may or may not work for you depending upon how much you have to dial back on the mashbill. No amount of boiling will get you the gravity and volume you want if you just can't pack enough malt in your tun.

 

[money spud]

My 5 gallon recipe is about 21 pounds, in the idea that I'm wanting to do my plan would be to mash 11.5 pounds into 3 gallons of wort or there about, and then to mash the other 11.5 pounds into 3 gallons of wort. So it would be the same amount of grain as doing all 21 pounds in a 10 gallon bucket, or am I doing something wrong here?

 

[Brew_Dude41]

Obvious answer is get a bigger mash tun.
I remember reading in BYO that you can split the grain bill and use the wort to do two mashes back to back. If I remember correctly only use half of your sparge water on the first mash and drain it completely. Then clear your tun, do a the second mash with the first runnings. Then sparge to hit your volume.
It was something I thought about trying but never did-got a bigger system...

 

[OldDogBrewing]

Obvious answer is get a bigger mash tun.
I remember reading in BYO that you can split the grain bill and use the wort to do two mashes back to back. If I remember correctly only use half of your sparge water on the first mash and drain it completely. Then clear your tun, do a the second mash with the first runnings. Then sparge to hit your volume.
It was something I thought about trying but never did-got a bigger system...

In whisky production they do something similar, they mash in with the second runnings from the past batch, at the moment I considered that too but like you, ended up moving to a bigger mash tun before trying this method

 

[cmac62]

How big is your kettle. You could go to lowes or home depot and get a paint strainer bag and biab using your kettle. If not I like the up the sugars with DME to boost abv idea the best. I'm lazy and doing two mashes with all the other stuff required seems like a lot of work for 5 gals of beer.

 

[money spud]

How big is your kettle. You could go to lowes or home depot and get a paint strainer bag and biab using your kettle. If not I like the up the sugars with DME to boost abv idea the best. I'm lazy and doing two mashes with all the other stuff required seems like a lot of work for 5 gals of beer.

I think it's an 8 gallon kettle, but time and effort aren't really factors. I know I could use extract, but prefer for some reason to do it all grain. I'll be watching football and drinking good beer with 2 of my best friends for this beer so not concerned with an extra hour and a half of mashing and sparging. I'm going to get a 10 gallon mash tun set up at some point in the near future but not looking to spend that money just yet.

 

[dwhite60]

Honestly, in a barley wine, I'd mash what I comfortably could and make up the difference in gravity with ldme. In a beer that big you'll probably not notice the difference.

I have a book from the early 1990's by Dave Miller entitled "The Complete Handbook of Home Brewing". He suggests this. I've done it and have been happy with the results.

 

[Vale71]

My 5 gallon recipe is about 21 pounds, in the idea that I'm wanting to do my plan would be to mash 11.5 pounds into 3 gallons of wort or there about, and then to mash the other 11.5 pounds into 3 gallons of wort. So it would be the same amount of grain as doing all 21 pounds in a 10 gallon bucket, or am I doing something wrong here?

Besides the fact that two times 11.5 is 23 and not 21 I'd say you're spot on.
Are you also going to boil separately or is the mash tun your only bottleneck?
If you're going to boil separately I'd recommend not waiting for the second half-batch to be ready and pitch all the yeast into the first half of the wort. This will give the yeast a head start (sort of like a giant starter) and give you better chances in fermenting a high gravity wort without mishaps.

 

[Klinzai]

Just saw a thread just like this for a stout:
You can do an "iterative mash". Mash half the grain to conversion then pull the spent grain from the wort and mash again with the second half of the grain bill in the wort. Many folks ,mash low the first half for fermentability then high the second half for body depending on style.

 

[Garage12brewing]

I always had success for my high gravity beers using light DME to adjust... I used as much as 5 pounds with 30 minutes to go in the boil to reach 1.100... I often use less DME to adjust my double IPA... no one could tell... its OK to use DME when brewing all grain.

 

[cmac62]

I think it's an 8 gallon kettle, but time and effort aren't really factors. I know I could use extract, but prefer for some reason to do it all grain. I'll be watching football and drinking good beer with 2 of my best friends for this beer so not concerned with an extra hour and a half of mashing and sparging. I'm going to get a 10 gallon mash tun set up at some point in the near future but not looking to spend that money just yet.

Then there is your solution. Use both your kettle with a bag and your cooler, then you can do both at the same time. It seems you may be able to split it 2/3 into the bag in the kettle and 1/3 into the cooler MT. I hope this helps

 

[mattdee1]

Regardless of what method you use, just be aware of the impacts you're likely to see on efficiency. If you're using a tool like Beersmith to figure your grain bill based on some target OG, and it is set up based on the efficiency you get from a more conventional brew where you're doing a full sparge, then your OG is going to be horribly low unless your barley wine process includes a sparge.

For example, if you put the first half of grains in the MT with some amount of water, then collect runnings, then do the same with the next half of grains, you're effectively bypassing the sparge and leaving a bunch of sugar in the mash tun, which will be reflected in a hydrometer reading way lower than you may have expected for OG.

I've been wanting to do a barley wine too, but I'm just dragging my feet on it because with my current setup it would be a long-ass brew day. I'd need to basically mash and sparge as though I'm doing a 10gal batch of moderate gravity, then boil it down to a 5gal batch over however long that takes. This is why the "best" way to make such a big beer is to simply have an appropriately sized mash tun.

 

[JacktardBrewmeister]

I have brewed a multi-award winning barelywine at 26.6% and I can tell you that grain-wise max out what you can do and DME and Sugars for the rest. From maple syrup to coconut and turbinado sugar, you can easily get the gravity you need, but ultimately you may not get it initially from the primary fermentation. When I brew MEGA barleywine I aim for about 10 to 12% at the get-go. I then add sugared enhancements like simple syrup made from coconut palm sugar or various syrups and add another helping of high gravity yeast to get it there. Then the hardest part... time. I usually would add sugars every month or so and pitch another yeast if I notice the beer not SLOWLY chugging along. But the question is what is your recipe and what is your procedure/technique towards getting this barelywine to where you want it and how strong and flavorful do you want it. b^^

(FYI it took 6 months of fermenting to get my barleywine to 26.6% abv. Three sugar add-ins and one yeast add-in later. Was a process, but I created liquid gold my friend.... liquid gold).