High gravity ales

[LeeHall505]

Hey everyone! I am new to brewing and have done extensive research on the process. I have brewed a couple Mr.Beer kits, a couple small batch extract kits, and a 5 gallon extract kit. In my own hubris and curiosity I decided to purchase a belgian tripel extract kit with an original gravity of 1.076... and a belgian quad with an original gravity of 1.090. High gravity ales seem to be significantly more dificult to brew than their lower gravity counterparts. I don't have a stir plate and I am debating whether or not I should make a 3.5L starter with the 2 wyeast trappist high gravity smack packs I also purchased (I used a calculator to determine the size of starter wort I would need to fully ferment an ale with such high gravity) Apparently brewing high gravity ales with multiple yeast strains can result in a better fermentation. I was wondering if it would be a good idea to pitch both yeast strains I bought (the other is Omega yeast belgian ale W) and harvest the yeast out of the primary to be used for the other ale. I don't know which ale would be best to expose the yeast to first.

Should I make the starter with both strains or pitch all 4 packs into one of the ales? I know I've bitten off a bit more than I can chew here but I'm dedicated to making both beers the best I can. I think it would be best to get some feedback from more experienced brewers instead of compiling research from google and hoping I didn't waste my money.

 

[brewdude88]

Those gravities are high, but not crazy high. One way to go in your situation is to do a vitality starter with 2 packs. To do this, brew the beer, boil and cool, then add the yeast to 1-2 litres of cooled wort and let it go for 4ish hours with agitation as much as possible (transfer the rest of the wort to the fermentor and let it hang out while the yeast wakes up). Once it has a good krausen, Pitch the full starter to the rest of the (oxygenated) wort. I cannot stress how important oxygen is here. Also consider one more round of oxygenation around 1-2 hours after pitching.

I have had success with this method at those gravities, just remember oxygen is your friend early on.

Keep in mind, pitching rate will have some effect on flavor, so I do regular starters whenever possible to be consistent. The method I shared is the quick and dirty way to skin this cat.

 

[Calder]

No reason to mix the yeasts. You would have no idea which contributed what flavors. Most Belgian yeasts will ferment to a dry finish (I have not checked these two strains).

You seem to know how to make a starter. I would just take one of the packs, smack it and make a starter with it. Swirl the starter as often as you can, but don't worry if you have to leave it for hours. I'd make a pint starter, let it settle out in the fridge after a few days, decant the liquid and then make a second starter of about 1.5 to 2 liters (I can't go higher ...... I could, but not with my normal equipment). Then pitch when starter is actively going. This should take about a week to 10 days.

Don't worry about pitching 'low', some Belgian strains work better if pitched at a lower rate. Don't worry about getting a perfect pitch, making a starter will give you a lot of viable yeast that will do the job fine.

Make the lower gravity beer first. Once complete, harvest the slurry in some sanitized container(s) and store in fridge. I use mason jars. Slurry can be kept for several months, but you need aware of a loss of viability with extended storage. I would recommend using within a few weeks. Use the slurry for the higher gravity beer, but only use about half of the slurry (using the whole cake/slurry would be over-pitching).

Store your other yeast packs in the fridge. Provided you make starters, they will be fine for at least a year. With proper storage, you can still use yeast packs after a couple of years ...... yeast viability will be low and will require a few step-ups of a starter to get a decent pitching population.

I really don't think you will gain much if you start with 2 packs rather than one. If you make a small starter as a first step, the yeast count when the starter is done will be virtually the same whether you one or 2 packs.

Now all this may seem too much. Since you have the packs, pitching 2 packs straight into the 1.076 wort (no starter) should work fine (unless something happened to kill the yeast (too hot or frozen)). Again, Belgians work fine when pitched low. But still use half the slurry/cake for the higher brew.

 

[LeeHall505]

Those gravities are high, but not crazy high. One way to go in your situation is to do a vitality starter with 2 packs. To do this, brew the beer, boil and cool, then add the yeast to 1-2 litres of cooled wort and let it go for 4ish hours with agitation as much as possible (transfer the rest of the wort to the fermentor and let it hang out while the yeast wakes up). Once it has a good krausen, Pitch the full starter to the rest of the (oxygenated) wort. I cannot stress how important oxygen is here. Also consider one more round of oxygenation around 1-2 hours after pitching.

I have had success with this method at those gravities, just remember oxygen is your friend early on.

Keep in mind, pitching rate will have some effect on flavor, so I do regular starters whenever possible to be consistent. The method I shared is the quick and dirty way to skin this cat.

Thanks for the response! Considering I also don't have any oxygen kits or tools to most effectively aerate the wort, how would you recommend I aerate it?

 

[DocScott]

Great advice from Calder. In your situation, I’d make the tripel and pitch the 2 packs and skip the starter. Then use the slurry to pitch into the quad.

To aerate without a diffusion stone, just pour the cooled wort back and forth between 2 sanitized containers and/or shake/stir it in the sanitized fermenter. While this isn’t the best option, it’s the best you can do.

Watch your temps during fermentation and you should do fine.

Honestly, brewing higher gravity beers isn’t harder than lower, you just need to pitch more yeast, oxygenate, keep temps under control and let the yeast go to town.

 

[Dgallo]

Since your extract brewing it’s the same for you as brewing a 1.040, you’ll just need to open and pour more cans of LME, if you were allgrain it would just tank your efficiency by about 10-15% depending on your equipment.

Don’t just pitch to packs and call it a day, also don’t just build a starter blindly, use a pitch rate calculator like the one on brewer’s friend. I would personally pitch a Belgian at between .5 & .75 million cells/ml/*plato, and ferment 72-76*f, this will help you really get the ester production. When it comes to o2, yeast certainly need it but not as much as people think. If you over oxygenate your beer and their is an extended lag time from yeast, some of your malt/hop compounds can oxidize. A good hard rack and vigorously stirring the yeast in will be plenty.

 

[kh54s10]

You have 2 packs of each? For the 1.075 you could just pitch 2 packs, that should be close enough. I would check another calculator. 3.5 liters is bigger than any starter I have made for an ale. What method of starter are you doing. Intermittent shaking does take a larger starter than the ones I do on a stirplate.

 

[LeeHall505]

No reason to mix the yeasts. You would have no idea which contributed what flavors. Most Belgian yeasts will ferment to a dry finish (I have not checked these two strains).

You seem to know how to make a starter. I would just take one of the packs, smack it and make a starter with it. Swirl the starter as often as you can, but don't worry if you have to leave it for hours. I'd make a pint starter, let it settle out in the fridge after a few days, decant the liquid and then make a second starter of about 1.5 to 2 liters (I can't go higher ...... I could, but not with my normal equipment). Then pitch when starter is actively going. This should take about a week to 10 days.

Don't worry about pitching 'low', some Belgian strains work better if pitched at a lower rate. Don't worry about getting a perfect pitch, making a starter will give you a lot of viable yeast that will do the job fine.

Make the lower gravity beer first. Once complete, harvest the slurry in some sanitized container(s) and store in fridge. I use mason jars. Slurry can be kept for several months, but you need aware of a loss of viability with extended storage. I would recommend using within a few weeks. Use the slurry for the higher gravity beer, but only use about half of the slurry (using the whole cake/slurry would be over-pitching).

Store your other yeast packs in the fridge. Provided you make starters, they will be fine for at least a year. With proper storage, you can still use yeast packs after a couple of years ...... yeast viability will be low and will require a few step-ups of a starter to get a decent pitching population.

I really don't think you will gain much if you start with 2 packs rather than one. If you make a small starter as a first step, the yeast count when the starter is done will be virtually the same whether you one or 2 packs.

Now all this may seem too much. Since you have the packs, pitching 2 packs straight into the 1.076 wort (no starter) should work fine (unless something happened to kill the yeast (too hot or frozen)). Again, Belgians work fine when pitched low. But still use half the slurry/cake for the higher brew.

You have 2 packs of each? For the 1.075 you could just pitch 2 packs, that should be close enough. I would check another calculator. 3.5 liters is bigger than any starter I have made for an ale. What method of starter are you doing. Intermittent shaking does take a larger starter than the ones I do on a stirplate.

The calculators typically won't account for the style of beer being made. Now I know Belgians can be pitched low. For the quad I chose for the pitch rate to be high gravity ale 1.0 million cells/ml/°Plato, 5 gallons of wort OG: 1.09, with 2 smack packs manufactured on 12-16-19. Since I don't have a stir plate it had me increase the starter wort size to create enough healthy yeast cells.

 

[kh54s10]

All the calculators I have seen differentiate between Ales and Lagers. Styles of ales (or lagers) wouldn't change the size of the starter by much. Yes on some styles you can alter the flavor profile by underpitching and others with temperature. But you don't need to.

I use this calculator: http://www.yeastcalculator.com/yeastcalc.html Based on the date of your yeast and 5 gallons at 1.090 I get that you need about a 1.8 liter starter with intermittent shaking. Or twice that big with one pack.

Also give this a look. I haven't done it but will some day. https://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/denny/old-dognew-tricks

 

[LeeHall505]

All the calculators I have seen differentiate between Ales and Lagers. Styles of ales (or lagers) wouldn't change the size of the starter by much. Yes on some styles you can alter the flavor profile by underpitching and others with temperature. But you don't need to.

I use this calculator: http://www.yeastcalculator.com/yeastcalc.html Based on the date of your yeast and 5 gallons at 1.090 I get that you need about a 1.8 liter starter with intermittent shaking. Or twice that big with one pack.

Also give this a look. I haven't done it but will some day. https://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/denny/old-dognew-tricks

All the calculators I have seen differentiate between Ales and Lagers. Styles of ales (or lagers) wouldn't change the size of the starter by much. Yes on some styles you can alter the flavor profile by underpitching and others with temperature. But you don't need to.

I use this calculator: http://www.yeastcalculator.com/yeastcalc.html Based on the date of your yeast and 5 gallons at 1.090 I get that you need about a 1.8 liter starter with intermittent shaking. Or twice that big with one pack.

Also give this a look. I haven't done it but will some day. https://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/denny/old-dognew-tricks

Hey thanks! That calculator is super easy to use. Sorry I meant that the calculators don't differentiate between style of ale or lager. I haven't brewed any Belgian ales and I wouldn't know about the "proper" pitching rate for, say, a double NE IPA versus a Belgian tripel. Apparently Belgians can be pitched "low". I'd have to do some research on or get feedback from people who have had successful final products from pitching "low" in a higher gravity Belgian.

 

[LeeHall505]

Since your extract brewing it’s the same for you as brewing a 1.040, you’ll just need to open and pour more cans of LME, if you were allgrain it would just tank your efficiency by about 10-15% depending on your equipment.

Don’t just pitch to packs and call it a day, also don’t just build a starter blindly, use a pitch rate calculator like the one on brewer’s friend. I would personally pitch a Belgian at between .5 & .75 million cells/ml/*plato, and ferment 72-76*f, this will help you really get the ester production. When it comes to o2, yeast certainly need it but not as much as people think. If you over oxygenate your beer and their is an extended lag time from yeast, some of your malt/hop compounds can oxidize. A good hard rack and vigorously stirring the yeast in will be plenty.

Thanks for the feedback! What do you mean by "a good hard rack"?

 

[Dgallo]

Thanks for the feedback! What do you mean by "a good hard rack"?

Racking from the kettle to FV. If you use a racking cane, have your hose be at the top and splash in the entire time

 

[Liam569]

I had a similar situation, but long ago, I gave up this project. After reading what you advise, I had a desire to try again. Anyway, luckily I can also ask professionals for advice if something goes wrong with me now.