High FG using yeast starter - HELP

[brettg20]

I have now made yeast starters for my last 2 batches and both have produced a FG of around 1.022, with a OG of around 1.052. I have never had a problem with my FG before using a yeast starter, I don't know why I am now.

For my starters I have been boiling 1/2 cup DME to 2 cups water for 10 min, chill in ice bath to about 70, pitch yeast then top off flask up to about 700ml with water. I use a stir plate and pitch within 18 hours of making my starter.

What can I do differently to obtain a lower FG? Should I top it off with more or less water than the current 700ml? Make a bigger starter? Pitch sooner than 18 hours?

Any info will be appreciated!!

Cheers

 

[Hammy71]

1.052 isn't really that big of a beer so you should be Ok with your watered down starter but you never know. Why are you topping off the flask? If you want a 750ml starter than simply boil 3/4 cup of DME with 3 cups of water. By topping off your lowering the OG of your starter. I'm not sure if that's the problem with your FGs....but it couldn't hurt.

 

[brettg20]

This was in another thread about starters posted by someone else:

"I usually just do the 1/2 cup extract (wheat, light or pilsner depending on brew...usually dry) in 2 cups of water. I heat the water, add extract as it is coming to heat, stir well and boil lightly for 10-15 minutes in a saucepan. I then cool in an ice bath (just a large bowl with ice water) until cool to the touch. Be sure to wipe off water from the saucepan, then pour into a sanitized 1000mL flask, top off with bottled water to about 700mL and add the yeast. Cover with sanitized aluminum foil and shake as often as possible until brew time or use stir plate."

That is the reason I topped off the flask. Can I boil 2 cups of water to 1/2 cup DME and have enough volume for a vial of yeast without topping off with more water? What are the advantages of making bigger starters?

 

[ZenBrewer]

It may be more than just a starter issue. The OG is low enough that a single smack pack ought to do the job. We need a bit more info to help you out though.

1) What yeast?
2) All-Grain or Extract brew?
3) Method of aerating cooled wort?
4) What was the fermentation temperature and duration of the fermentation?

-ZB

 

[Frodo]

I have now made yeast starters for my last 2 batches and both have produced a FG of around 1.022, with a OG of around 1.052. I have never had a problem with my FG before using a yeast starter, I don't know why I am now.

For my starters I have been boiling 1/2 cup DME to 2 cups water for 10 min, chill in ice bath to about 70, pitch yeast then top off flask up to about 700ml with water. I use a stir plate and pitch within 18 hours of making my starter.

What can I do differently to obtain a lower FG? Should I top it off with more or less water than the current 700ml? Make a bigger starter? Pitch sooner than 18 hours?

Any info will be appreciated!!

Cheers

Your methods seem sound to me. You want the OG of the starter to be around or slightly less than 1.040 so you're producing healthy yeast (that's one of the main purposes of the starter other than building up number of yeast), and your amount of DME and water seem to be about right with topping off to 700ml.

I agree with ZB, seems to me like there is something else going on. Did you make any other changes since you began using starters, like using LME instead of DME on your last couple of batches? Different fermentation temp?

 

[waldoar15]

Common with extracts, a little less so with all grain unless you're mashing on the high end of the temp scale or using a large percentage of less fermentable specialty malts.

 

[brettg20]

One of my batches ended up being 1.017 - not too bad but would like to go lower. As far the other one, took a reading yesterday and it was 1.022 (Stout) and its now been 7 days but all activity has been still for 4 days now.

I brew all grain, the ferm temp was a constant 67-70 (temp controlled) and the yeast was wlp001 (1st batch) and wlp004 (current batch). It was a 5.5 gal batch.

I have done nothing different from any other batch except the yeast starters. One thing that got me thinking is the first batch I diluted to 700ml with water (1.017) and the second batch I accidentally diluted to almost 800ml (1.022).

Can this extra dilution cause the higher FG? Should I dilute to 600ml or lower to cause a higher OG in the starter?

 

[GLoBaLReBeL]

Is it just me or is everyone overlooking the fact that he is talking about the FG of his beer and not the starter? I mean, as long as your waiting the 18 - 24 hours for the starter to build up its yeast count and pitching that, then I don't see there being any reason why one would suspect the starter being the issue. the small size of the starter (700-800ml), even if the yeast didn't eat up the entire starter and the FG of the starter was 1.025, it would have no bearing on the "primary's" FG.

I would point more toward the actual beer in the primary before you point at the starter. Any starter (as long as it isn't VERY high gravity haha) is better then no starter.

But then again, I'm not the smartest person on here and you should probably take my help with a grain of salt

 

[RedGlass]

I agree. This starter method initially had me questioning the pitching rate, but I don't think the beers are big enough to really make that an issue.

I will say that I'm not sure why anyone is advocating topping off the starter (I've never heard of the method before, so if someone knows the reason for it, I'm interested in hearing). The 1/2 cup DME to 2 cups water is just the ratio, not your total volume. The purpose behind keeping that ratio is that it will give you ~1.040 starter wort, which is a good environment for yeast growth. It doesn't mean that your starter should necessarily be made in 2 cups of wort. You could check out the mr. malty pitching calculator to figure out the proper overall volume for each beer.

That said, I still don't think the starter is the problem.

 

[brettg20]

The 1/2 cup DME to 2 cups water is just the ratio, not your total volume. The purpose behind keeping that ratio is that it will give you ~1.040 starter wort, which is a good environment for yeast growth. It doesn't mean that your starter should necessarily be made in 2 cups of wort.

I figure that after diluting the starter my ratio was 1/2 cup DME to 3 - 3.5 cups water which would give a much lower Starter OG of 1.040. I punched in different O.G.'s based on the 5 or 6 beers I brew and all of them according to Mr. Malty need a 1L starter (with stir plate). My previous starters were around 750ml with only enough DME for a 500ml starter. This has got to be the problem especially since I have never had a problem with the final gravity in the 5 years I have been brewing.

I am brewing on Friday so my starter tomorrow will be 1 cup DME to 4 cups of water which will give me around 1.040 and hopefully the beer FG will be closer to 1.012.

 

[GLoBaLReBeL]

use the 10:1 ratio. for every 10mL:1g DME. That's what I use and my starters are great. BUT don't forget to account for boil off. I made my first starter with the 700mL water and 70g of DME, did the 10 minute boil, ended up with 600mL of water and a OG of like 1.55 or something like that. Wasn't a good idea because it didn't give the yeast an easy head start. The next day I tested out my different methods and found that if I brew in the 1L flask, and do a 13:1 ratio, my OG after boil off seems to be around 1.035 - 1.040 so it works out perfectly!

(P.S Get yourself a kitchen scale. Everyone kept telling me to do it and I finally did and it makes everything soooo much easier. I just TAR my plastic cup, and do my ratio and BAM! No guessing!)