Hey Spunders, did your beer quality go up after you discoverd spunding?

[Virginia_Ranger]

what's the reason for the extra transfer after 2 weeks? I have a Janet's Brown Ale with several ounces of dry hops sitting in the keg for 2 months now - still tastes great!

It seems to vary by hop but 2 weeks just seems to be the sweet spot on my NEIPAs and after that I have gotten some grassy notes (this is with Citra, Mosaic, Cashmere). Cascade is the worst offender for me, it may have been a bad lot of them but man they just had this herbal tea flavor after they were in the keg to long.

 

[twd000]

Do you use a floating dip tube when you do this? I've only tried keeping dry hops in the serving keg once. This was with a shortened dip tube with a screen surrounding it. The 1st pour of the day had an astringency to it throughout the life of the keg, which I have to assume was from the beer at the bottom being in contact with the hops. If I ever try it again, it would only be with a floating dip tube with the hop that the astringent beer would stay at the bottom and only affect the last few pours.

Yes I have homemade floating dip tubes in every keg. They use a wine filter screen to prevent hops from getting sucked in

 

[Surfboy66]

I do not recommend going over 15 psi early in fermentation at the 60-70 F range. I noticed I consistently had stalled or stuck fermentations when going over 15 psi at my temps.

Thanks for sharing Virginia_Ranger, much appreciated.

In the only batch I've used a spunding valve, I pitched at around 65F using a blow-off tube for 2 days. I then attached the spunding valve set at 15psi and let it rise naturally to this level. I kept it at this pressure throughout fermentation and was very happy with how the beer turned out. I had read that there was very little ester suppression in the first couple of days, this together with not wanting to get a stuck fermentation, was the reasoning for not spunding from the beginning of fermentation. I tried dry hopping in the primary fermenter, which I now realize was a mistake, but in future will do a closed transfer to a second, purged keg containing the dry hops.

Thanks again

 

[Virginia_Ranger]

No problem!

 

[kmarkstevens]

I think I prefer spunded. I certainly love the concept. Haven't done a side by side but thinking maybe I should to confirm at least the personal taste preference

 

[DVCNick]

I'm new to pressure fermentations but now have everything I would need to do one. I've searched around a bit but don't seem to see a hard list of guidelines for what to do or not do, and what to expect. In general, I've read the following:

1) You can increase temp and ferment faster.
- Q: how much can you increase temp? If pressure also slows the fermentation, why doesn't this just cancel out any speed gains?

2) Ester production is suppressed by pressure.
-Q: I guess this is good if you are going for a very clean yeast, but not so good if you actually want the esters? So something like APA would be a good candidate for pressure fermentation, but not, say Hefe were yeast flavor is a major component?

Is there a list of temp and pressure profile during primary fermentation recommended for different styles or different yeasts out there?

 

[Surfboy66]

I'm new to pressure fermentations but now have everything I would need to do one. I've searched around a bit but don't seem to see a hard list of guidelines for what to do or not do, and what to expect. In general, I've read the following:

1) You can increase temp and ferment faster.
- Q: how much can you increase temp? If pressure also slows the fermentation, why doesn't this just cancel out any speed gains?

2) Ester production is suppressed by pressure.
-Q: I guess this is good if you are going for a very clean yeast, but not so good if you actually want the esters? So something like APA would be a good candidate for pressure fermentation, but not, say Hefe were yeast flavor is a major component?

Is there a list of temp and pressure profile during primary fermentation recommended for different styles or different yeasts out there?

I've also not found real guidelines wrt fermenting under pressure. Some useful information on Scott Janish's blogg - he gets into the weeds with some good research references.

http://scottjanish.com/fermenting-dry-hopping-pressure/

Cheers

 

[Robert65]

Pressure fermentation is commercially used on lagers. They can then be fermented with a peak at ale temperatures, 60°-70°F, and can finish in the same time as ales, that is, reaching FG in 48-72 hours. It is temperature, not ale vs lager yeast or pressure, that determines the speed of fermentation. Pressure does suppress ester formation in later stages of fermentation, but suppresses yeast growth early on. I am unaware of any slowing of fermentation due to pressures normally used, that is around 15 psig, and I have a fair bit of experience. I have, just once or twice out of curiosity, tried pressure fermentation on an ale. Just like any ale, it reached FG in just over 48 hours. It was, however, (unsurprisingly) entirely lacking in any ale like character, or much character at all, quite disappointing. I see no useful application of pressure fermentation for ales. My experience.

 

[DVCNick]

Well if nothing else, it would allow for easy cold crashing and closed system transfer, both with basically zero oxygen exposure. I could just set my spunding valve at or near wide open so it wouldn't really be under much pressure, if that is the more desireable state.

I've targeted a basic wheat beer for my first use of this system this weekend; actually, mostly because there is no dry hopping so my floating dip tube shouldn't get clogged. I'm pretty sure the yeast is supposed to contribute to the flavor a good bit.

 

[Robert65]

Yes, you can crash and transfer under pressure without oxygen exposure, that is a great advantage. You can also spund to carbonate, either in the fermenter or the keg after transfer, even on ales, without compromising the character. You just want to build the correct pressure to carbonate at the very end, with only a couple of points left to ferment out, having done the bulk of fermentation at atmospheric pressure. By then the flavor will be fully developed and the pressure won't adversely affect it.

 

[brewbama]

What temp do you spund in the keg Robert?

 

[Robert65]

Lately on my lagers I've been combining it with a diacetyl rest (which I may or may not need.) So transferring to keg at fermentation temperature (10°C/50°F) and letting it rise to 18°C/64°F with the spunding valve set to pressure for that warmer temperature. The warming up does at least speed up the process and clear out the fermentation chamber faster, even if the d-rest isn't strictly necessary. Then when I cool it to lagering temperature I reduce pressure accordingly.

 

[ten80]

Usually 0.3 - 0.4 g SMB into 19L so approximately 15-20 ppm.

I add 25 ppm SO2 and it seems to work well for long-term aging in kegs or bottles. Note that you're getting less than 25 ppm free SO2 because a substantial portion of the SO2 will be bound to organic compounds in the beer. Free SO2 is what reacts with dissolved oxygen. Here's a good read: https://www.extension.iastate.edu/wine/total-sulfur-dioxide-why-it-matters-too

 

[brewbama]

Are a lot of people force carbing? I always natural carb with a sugar of some sort. Id dint realize force carbing was so prevalent. Seemed silly to me when waiting a couple of weeks and you have carbonation

You can back that timeline even further if you spund. Before it’s done fermenting transfer it to a keg with a spund valve. The time you would have waited for it to finish fermenting then add prime and wait two weeks for carbonation can be combined. The unfinished wort is the prime. No more cost for the prime plus the added benefit of yeast scavenging the O2 and freeing up the fermenter faster.